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Taking the piss at the pump


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Joncrete Cungle

All these cables left out overnight will be a magnet for pikeys? Cut at one end, cut at the other with a decent set of insulated snips and each length is worth xx at the scrap yard? Would be easy to get through a lot in a night in terraced streets etc.

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belfastchild
8 hours ago, markyh said:

I do believe you are allowed to have a professional installed cable linked to your flats consumer unit, exit your outside wall, run down the wall to ground level then to an allocated parking spot to your own charge post. You can get a grant for this too. But i dont know anyone in real life who has done it. 

By 2030 there will be 3rd party council / private company kerbside charging solutions for Flats / terraced House owners without allocated parking. Find a space, plug in a cable and swipe a billing card of some sort i should imagine. 

The only places that will struggle long term are villages like where my dad lives that never had street lamps installed and every vote over 50 years to raise village taxes to have them put in was decline by the residents. 

If where you park has street lamp furniture , there is a power supply system to tap into for on street charging, it just needs the hardware installed.  Plenty of private companies are developing kerbside solutions for this. 

For sure my belief is private properties with driveways / off street parking and 2 x 7kw EV charging wall units are going to become as sort after in the "buying " tick box as good schools, good broadband , good local facilities, and increase those house prices.   

Street lamps arent practical. Ive seen the 'chargers' put in lamps onstreet in georgian liverpool. They are trickle charge and only when the lamps arent on.
In a lot of cases the street lamps are all on one household circuit. There is spare capacity now with the move to LED from sodium but its not a lot.
All the street lamps near me are on the inside of the footpath so unless you move them to the outside they are useless.

A lot of the newbuilds Ive seen have chargers fitted for tick box purposes but again run off a 13a circuit.

EV chargers in homes will require a lot more thought, a lot of the old housing stock (and Im talking around 1980s here as 'old') doesnt have the electricity infrastructure for more than one or two charging stations per street without major upgrades. Its one of the reason household solar isnt a goer in reality as the number of houses with panels installed is limited by the street power cable infrastructure, in my 1980s street you can have 1 or 2 max as Ive seen problems with overvoltage on a sunny day in the holidays here.

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28 minutes ago, belfastchild said:

Street lamps arent practical. Ive seen the 'chargers' put in lamps onstreet in georgian liverpool. They are trickle charge and only when the lamps arent on.
In a lot of cases the street lamps are all on one household circuit. There is spare capacity now with the move to LED from sodium but its not a lot.
All the street lamps near me are on the inside of the footpath so unless you move them to the outside they are useless.

A lot of the newbuilds Ive seen have chargers fitted for tick box purposes but again run off a 13a circuit.

EV chargers in homes will require a lot more thought, a lot of the old housing stock (and Im talking around 1980s here as 'old') doesnt have the electricity infrastructure for more than one or two charging stations per street without major upgrades. Its one of the reason household solar isnt a goer in reality as the number of houses with panels installed is limited by the street power cable infrastructure, in my 1980s street you can have 1 or 2 max as Ive seen problems with overvoltage on a sunny day in the holidays here.

Agree street lamps are not ideal, but they should do 3kw easily, which is 230v @ 13 amps.  One of our EV's is old, 2012, and only charges at 3kw, only has a 10kwh battery , and only can go 30-40 miles.  It is used daily no problems and fully charges from empty in under 4 hours.  off peak overnight say 11pm -6am , you could easily add 21kwh or range every night and balance the grid.  That's good for 60ish miles in winter and 80-100 miles in Spring /summer /autumn above 10 degrees.  If wires all need changing, wires will be changed.  But they will do ALL low hanging fruit regarding EV charging first, as it costs less, that is just normal. 

The plans are a foot. "Lots of economic activity" with big lifestyle changes. More / new sector jobs, etc. It's like saying in the 90's broadband could never happen for the majority as "Dial up" over telephone lines will never cope with the speeds needed and its ok for all new houses but we would have to dig up the streets of the whole UK to have broadband everywhere. 

And that's exactly what happened in the late 90's onwards to where we are today. I live in a small village and have 60 meg fibre broadband. 

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belfastchild
32 minutes ago, markyh said:

Agree street lamps are not ideal, but they should do 3kw easily, which is 230v @ 13 amps.

One could, yes. All of them together could, yes.
Each of them together. No.

It would require digging up the streets and would require major increases in infrastructure for something that is only a wishlist (people already had broadband and my first cable speed was 64k).
As with other threads nobody has said where all this extra electricity is coming from. Tonight the uk will probably redline.

Ive 2 tesla model 3 owning mates (used to have 3 but one got tired of making excuses for them constantly and went back to lexus) and now they are on e7 and so have had to adjust the family lifestyle to suit the car - after years of free charging at work they now work from home and have to pay for their own electricity and parasitic charge. That will soon kill e7 in the UK and wait for the outcry about that. Besides the government will soon start charging EV tax on the kwh for cars (reason one of my mates fitted a dumb charger with his own money).
They all have 2nd cars (diesel) for long journeys/holidays.

If I had to guess right now the future is hybrids (of whatever type - prob hydrogen) with plug in battery versions to be used in cities to get round emissions (even though thats just more nonsense).

The best time to own an EV has been the last few years, its going to get tighter from now on in.

 

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2 minutes ago, belfastchild said:

If I had to guess right now the future is hybrids (of whatever type - prob hydrogen) with plug in battery versions to be used in cities to get round emissions (even though thats just more nonsense).

Chatting to a guy who deals with end of lease car collection. Most of the hybrid company exec cars (mostly Merc E class) come back with the charging lead still sealed in the plastic bag it was supplied in.

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Bornagain
50 minutes ago, markyh said:

Agree street lamps are not ideal, but they should do 3kw easily, which is 230v @ 13 amps.  One of our EV's is old, 2012, and only charges at 3kw, only has a 10kwh battery , and only can go 30-40 miles.  It is used daily no problems and fully charges from empty in under 4 hours.  off peak overnight say 11pm -6am , you could easily add 21kwh or range every night and balance the grid.  That's good for 60ish miles in winter and 80-100 miles in Spring /summer /autumn above 10 degrees.  If wires all need changing, wires will be changed.  But they will do ALL low hanging fruit regarding EV charging first, as it costs less, that is just normal. 

The plans are a foot. "Lots of economic activity" with big lifestyle changes. More / new sector jobs, etc. It's like saying in the 90's broadband could never happen for the majority as "Dial up" over telephone lines will never cope with the speeds needed and its ok for all new houses but we would have to dig up the streets of the whole UK to have broadband everywhere. 

And that's exactly what happened in the late 90's onwards to where we are today. I live in a small village and have 60 meg fibre broadband. 

This all depends on the infrastructure that supplies the lamp post.

The cables, switchgear and fuses will be sized to provide enough electricity for the lighting load - not to provide 3KW to charge a car. Modern systems will be designed to provide power to LED lights and they use next to knack all electricity.

Where I live the lap posts are daisy chained together, this means you might be able to charge a few cars from the string but any idea of charging a car from each lamppost is not going to happen unless somebody spends a lot of time and money upgrading most/all of the infrastructure.

 

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belfastchild
3 minutes ago, Option5 said:

Chatting to a guy who deals with end of lease car collection. Most of the hybrid company exec cars (mostly Merc E class) come back with the charging lead still sealed in the plastic bag it was supplied in.

I brought this up in real life previously. People didnt believe me.
I said go on to autotrader, search for mitsubshi outlanders and have a look at the photos of the boots. Most had the EV charging cable still in its plastic wrapper.

Just a tax dodge and probably means the battery part is fucked after 3 years.

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12 minutes ago, Bornagain said:

 

Where I live the lap posts are daisy chained together, this means you might be able to charge a few cars from the string but any idea of charging a car from each lamppost is not going to happen unless somebody spends a lot of time and money upgrading most/all of the infrastructure.

 

Yep this will happen, and we will all pay for it via taxes and onward charges for the leccy per kwh,  anyone saying it cant happen is taking the King Canute view and EV's are the sea. 

Climate change init , it's matters not how much more expensive personal transport gets short to medium term 2020's 2030's , it's about having it all in place for 2050. 
 

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28 minutes ago, belfastchild said:

 

It would require digging up the streets and would require major increases in infrastructure for something that is only a wishlist 

 

This will happen. Access to fuel for personal transport is way more than a wishlist. The money will be spent and we all will pay for it, directly via taxes or indirectly via charging costs that are commercial and not from a personal home supply. 

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30 minutes ago, belfastchild said:

 

Ive 2 tesla model 3 owning mates (used to have 3 but one got tired of making excuses for them constantly and went back to lexus) and now they are on e7 and so have had to adjust the family lifestyle to suit the car - after years of free charging at work they now work from home and have to pay for their own electricity and parasitic charge.

 

Yesh if they cant afford cheap overnight leccy to fill a Tesla how did they ever afford Petrol or Diesel. That makes no sense.  I charge at home for 5pkwh now, will be 7.5pkwh in April , but as the Tesla will do 5 miles.kwh in summer, that 1p a mile. You cant have cheaper fuel. 

There will be no EV tax, All cars will have an additional per mile travel tax of some sort. 

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10 hours ago, markyh said:

I do believe you are allowed to have a professional installed cable linked to your flats consumer unit, exit your outside wall, run down the wall to ground level then to an allocated parking spot to your own charge post. You can get a grant for this too. But i dont know anyone in real life who has done it. 

By 2030 there will be 3rd party council / private company kerbside charging solutions for Flats / terraced House owners without allocated parking. Find a space, plug in a cable and swipe a billing card of some sort i should imagine. 

The only places that will struggle long term are villages like where my dad lives that never had street lamps installed and every vote over 50 years to raise village taxes to have them put in was decline by the residents. 

If where you park has street lamp furniture , there is a power supply system to tap into for on street charging, it just needs the hardware installed.  Plenty of private companies are developing kerbside solutions for this. 

For sure my belief is private properties with driveways / off street parking and 2 x 7kw EV charging wall units are going to become as sort after in the "buying " tick box as good schools, good broadband , good local facilities, and increase those house prices.   

 

2 hours ago, Wight Flight said:

Not if you rent you can't.

Street lamps are only every 50 metres or so.

People need to wake up to reality. If you don't own a property with private parking, you won't be owning a car.

Many of the existing petrol stations will just become super fast charging spots. That you pay for of course. 

It's already happening. People without a house will have no issue charging their car once a week or so. 

It will be the cost of the cars and the cost of the electricity that prices people out. 

 

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Snake Plissken

I honestly don't think there is a plan to get us all to electric, if there was where are the plans for all the extra power stations ? They won't increase capacity they'll just start charging more and more to charge your electric car pricing people out.

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26 minutes ago, Snake Plissken said:

I honestly don't think there is a plan to get us all to electric, if there was where are the plans for all the extra power stations ? They won't increase capacity they'll just start charging more and more to charge your electric car pricing people out.

What? How will we get the poor of the roads then? (And by poor i mean ANYONE whom claims tax credits, and thus is not a net contributor of tax)  I want nice clear roads to swan about in my Tesla's enjoying the speed. 

£5 ltr of Petrol / Diesel it is then, Plan B. 

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belfastchild
53 minutes ago, markyh said:

This will happen. Access to fuel for personal transport is way more than a wishlist. The money will be spent and we all will pay for it, directly via taxes or indirectly via charging costs that are commercial and not from a personal home supply. 

If I had to guess Id say around 2025-2026 it will come out that cradle to grave EVs are worse for the environment than petrol cars.

It will be diesel all over again.

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4 minutes ago, belfastchild said:

If I had to guess Id say around 2025-2026 it will come out that cradle to grave EVs are worse for the environment than petrol cars.

It will be diesel all over again.

So we are all back to bicycles then? What is the low CO2 emissions alternative , and please dont say Hydrogen, that is a very expensive pipe dream that makes EV costs look cheap. 

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belfastchild
Just now, markyh said:

So we are all back to bicycles then? What is the low CO2 emissions alternative , and please dont say Hydrogen, that is a very expensive pipe dream that makes EV costs look cheap. 

Hydrogen. It will replace diesel now for everything diesel should be used for (long mileage, hgvs, busses etc). Diesel shouldnt be used for school runs or driving in towns, thats where electric is ideal - lot smaller cars though and 60 miles max range.
EVs still havent cracked the replaceable/recyclable battery which makes them properly green. Either too dirty to supply/not recyclable or dont last long enough but are recyclable.

You laugh about bicycles but Ive a foldable electric bike, great for most things and I used it a lot last year and during the summer. Saying that though like most things its only green when you consider it for individual transport, not multiple people all using the same transport to go to the same place (and that includes walking).

The thing people dont get is that there are no low CO2 emissions alternatives with a modern lifestyle and CO2 is what people focus on but its not the only problem. You can address CO2 but its usually at the expense of something else (land use, pollution, etc etc).

The most green vehicle you will ever have will probably be the one you already own because all the build sunk CO2 etc is already floating about in the atmosphere. Putting 10 years of CO2 diesel emissions out there in the next 3 months to produce an EV is just madness compared to running a diesel vehicle for the next 10 years and ensuring the parts/costs are available (as well as minimising journeys). The old scrappage scheme years ago to push people into greener diesel was perhaps one of the biggest environmental crimes going!

It doesnt really matter what your powertrain is, there will be a lot less of them in future.

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4 minutes ago, belfastchild said:

 

The most green vehicle you will ever have will probably be the one you already own because all the build sunk CO2 etc is already floating about in the atmosphere. Putting 10 years of CO2 diesel emissions out there in the next 3 months to produce an EV is just madness compared to running a diesel vehicle for the next 10 years and ensuring the parts/costs are available (as well as minimising journeys). The old scrappage scheme years ago to push people into greener diesel was perhaps one of the biggest environmental crimes going!

It doesnt really matter what your powertrain is, there will be a lot less of them in future.

That is a dumb arguement, you really expect the worlds car industry just to stop making new cars and switch overnight to a model of only producing spare parts to support all cars built in the past? 

Never going to happen.  You have much more chance of this happening with EV's. The vast majority on 2010-2012 EV's are still going strong and trouble free as EV's have much less to go wrong.  So older EV's will keep going longer reducung new car sales. 

We expect to keep our Tesla's 8-10 year minimum before, maybe changing. I doubt we will actually need to change them because they are to expensive to run / maintain. 

There will be lots of businesses catering for EV repair at reasonable prices by 2030.  

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belfastchild
1 minute ago, markyh said:

That is a dumb arguement, you really expect the worlds car industry just to stop making new cars and switch overnight to a model of only producing spare parts to support all cars built in the past? 

 

Have you been asleep the last 18 months?

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1 minute ago, belfastchild said:

Have you been asleep the last 18 months?

No, Why? Legacy ICE makers sales went through the floor due to a pandemic, EV's however, and especially Tesla, more than doubled their sales during the same period. 

What's your point? 

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On 04/12/2021 at 15:58, reformed nice guy said:

If the price of petrol is about £1.50 but the new type reduced the miles per gallon by about 7%, shouldnt we be thinking what the adjusted price should be ie £1.60 per litre

May be worth paying the ~10p/litre extra to use the premium fuel with E5 instead of E10 and additional cleansing agents and higher octane so may be more mpg too?

Not sure the current benefits of premium over standard in terms of direct injection engines where the cleaning won't work on the inlets. Maybe the old italian tune up and long journey burns off the carbon deposits just as well or better than fancy fuel additives. Dunno.

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4 hours ago, Joncrete Cungle said:

All these cables left out overnight will be a magnet for pikeys? Cut at one end, cut at the other with a decent set of insulated snips and each length is worth xx at the scrap yard? Would be easy to get through a lot in a night in terraced streets etc.

You cant mess with mass personal transport without quickly ending up in jail and having the key thrown away. Will be "open season" on pikey's , probably give a £50 reward per scalp, plus i have not sold scrap for years but didn't they ban cash payouts years ago? , you can be tracked down to a bank account these days. 

Why dont pikey's constantly raid Petrol stations now? stealing £1000's of fuel every night so sell for cash on the black market. 

Oh yeah, they would all quickly be knicked and banged up in a sting operation if they did.  

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Wight Flight
2 hours ago, ccc said:

 

Many of the existing petrol stations will just become super fast charging spots. That you pay for of course. 

It's already happening. People without a house will have no issue charging their car once a week or so. 

It will be the cost of the cars and the cost of the electricity that prices people out. 

 

What do you call super fast - under 5 minutes per full charge?

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Joncrete Cungle
1 hour ago, markyh said:

You cant mess with mass personal transport without quickly ending up in jail and having the key thrown away. Will be "open season" on pikey's , probably give a £50 reward per scalp, plus i have not sold scrap for years but didn't they ban cash payouts years ago? , you can be tracked down to a bank account these days. 

Why dont pikey's constantly raid Petrol stations now? stealing £1000's of fuel every night so sell for cash on the black market. 

Oh yeah, they would all quickly be knicked and banged up in a sting operation if they did.  

The scrap goes in containers and over to France in exchange for Euro notes or Euro payment into an Irish account away from the eyes of the British authorities and HMRC. Have you needed to ring the police to deal with pikeys / thieves / criminal damage / theft etc the past few years?

Last time they arrived one week and one day after being telephoned while the crime was taking place. On a weekend we have 8 or 10 coppers on duty over an area inhabited by over 350,000 people covering a hundred square miles?

One big kick off in the nearest city or one of the towns ties up all the on duty coppers for hours on end.

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2 hours ago, Wight Flight said:

What do you call super fast - under 5 minutes per full charge?

Dont know. I think the Tesla ones do in ten mins or so ? 

The wee shop will have a coffee stop in it. Maybe mini Tesco too. Plug your car in - do some shopping and have a coffee. Pay up. Off you trott. 

I saw an advert recently - BP I think. They've already some of these up and running. 

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Wight Flight
3 minutes ago, ccc said:

Dont know. I think the Tesla ones do in ten mins or so ? 

The wee shop will have a coffee stop in it. Maybe mini Tesco too. Plug your car in - do some shopping and have a coffee. Pay up. Off you trott. 

I saw an advert recently - BP I think. They've already some of these up and running. 

In which case they are going need to seriously increase the number of pumps / plugs available. (Or reduce the number of cars)

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