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Taking the piss at the pump


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belfastchild
3 minutes ago, ccc said:

Dont know. I think the Tesla ones do in ten mins or so ? 

The wee shop will have a coffee stop in it. Maybe mini Tesco too. Plug your car in - do some shopping and have a coffee. Pay up. Off you trott. 

I saw an advert recently - BP I think. They've already some of these up and running. 

Did a run in a model 3 down and up to dublin last year. Took a lot longer than 10 minutes for a half charge, go for a piss, order burger king, sit and eat it etc type timing. My diesel car and do down and up 2.5 times at least on a full tank.
It was the using the power of the car to heat the battery so that it could take the supercharge that made me laugh, good luck with that if you are nearly empty. Thankfully the chargers were empty and working.
Tesla assisted driving took a wobbler as a lorry pulled out in front, scared the shite out of me as it accelerated towards the side of it.

I think they are great pieces of engineering (even if copied from elsewhere) but wouldnt spend my own money on one.

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2 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

In which case they are going need to seriously increase the number of pumps / plugs available. (Or reduce the number of cars)

Why ? Many will charge at home. These will just take up the slack. 

I do think the plan is to overall reduce the proles access to private cars though. However in theory - if they can get the electricity production in place - that's the Biggie - then I see no reason why all the UK cars today couldn't be changed to electric with few issues. 

As above though - I don't think that's the plan.

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1 minute ago, belfastchild said:

Did a run in a model 3 down and up to dublin last year. Took a lot longer than 10 minutes for a half charge, go for a piss, order burger king, sit and eat it etc type timing. My diesel car and do down and up 2.5 times at least on a full tank.
It was the using the power of the car to heat the battery so that it could take the supercharge that made me laugh, good luck with that if you are nearly empty. Thankfully the chargers were empty and working.
Tesla assisted driving took a wobbler as a lorry pulled out in front, scared the shite out of me as it accelerated towards the side of it.

I think they are great pieces of engineering (even if copied from elsewhere) but wouldnt spend my own money on one.

So maybe 20 or so for a full charge ? 

Doesn't really matter. How often do people fill up their cars from almost empty to full ? I reckon it's a very small % of pump visits. 

Most will stick £20 in. That's maybe 3-5 mins charging. No biggie. 

As I said though - I don't think this is the plan. I just think if it is - it can work fairly easily. 

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belfastchild
2 minutes ago, ccc said:

So maybe 20 or so for a full charge ? 

 

About an hour at the rapid charger. 20 odd mins was for a half charge to get 120 odd miles home with enough to spare for delays, overnight and next morning.

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5 minutes ago, belfastchild said:

About an hour at the rapid charger. 20 odd mins was for a half charge to get 120 odd miles home with enough to spare for delays, overnight and next morning.

So is that the Tesla super duper charger or another "rapid" charger ? 

If it's Tesla then their advertising has been iffy to say the least. 

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belfastchild
Just now, ccc said:

So is that the Tesla super duper charger or another "rapid" charger ? 

If it's Tesla then their advertising has been iffy to say the least. 

Its the tesla super duper super charger but not one of their superchargers although it said supercharger on the map and app and.... well it was certainly up to 150kw but more like 40 odds and the bays were empty and the first two superchargers didnt work.

I found out it was one of those tesla advertising things where you just plug it in and see what you get rather than being any strict numerical value.
 

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Wight Flight
7 hours ago, ccc said:

Why ? Many will charge at home. These will just take up the slack.

Maybe 20% will have that option.

In the last year I have never been to buy petrol where I haven't had to queue. Often 3 cars deep.

If a charge takes 10 minutes, that is a serious PITA.

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8 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

Maybe 20% will have that option.

In the last year I have never been to buy petrol where I haven't had to queue. Often 3 cars deep.

If a charge takes 10 minutes, that is a serious PITA.

You do live in the 1970's FFS :D

I've not queued once in that time. I get diesel once a month if that however. 

 

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Wight Flight
3 minutes ago, ccc said:

You do live in the 1970's FFS :D

I've not queued once in that time. I get diesel once a month if that however. 

 

That just isn't true. The bloke manning the pumps now wears Nike sponsored overalls, and the windscreen cleaner lad uses purified water so we are just as up to date as you North Island bunch.

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Frank Hovis
On 14/01/2022 at 23:32, Wight Flight said:

Maybe 20% will have that option.

In the last year I have never been to buy petrol where I haven't had to queue. Often 3 cars deep.

If a charge takes 10 minutes, that is a serious PITA.

 

Yes, you're ok if you have a garage or drive but many don't and when you start thinking about it as you walk or drive about the most densely packed housing doesn't have that and that's where most people live these days.

I've said about a 2000s extension to a 1970s estate. 

The 1970s estate is spaced out bungalows with decent gardens, drives and garages.  The ones on the flat could pave their front gardens and park maybe five cars in total.

The 2000s extension however is a handful of semis with the rest terraced and all two or even three stories.

Parking is on the road, both sides, or blocking the pavement with the inadequate drives. Rows over parking are common.

Nobody living on this 2000s extension could have an electric car because they would have no guarantee that they could charge it each night; it would be entirely pot luck if they could park outside their house on any particular night.

Add in flats and HMOs then your 20% begins to look right.

For everyone else it's either keep an ICE going, pay through the nose for fast chargers or an ebike that they can charge in the hallway.

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Wight Flight
1 hour ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

Yes, you're ok if you have a garage or drive but many don't and when you start thinking about it as you walk or drive about the most densely packed housing doesn't have that and that's where most people live these days.

I've said about a 2000s extension to a 1970s estate. 

The 1970s estate is spaced out bungalows with decent gardens, drives and garages.  The ones on the flat could pave their front gardens and park maybe five cars in total.

The 2000s extension however is a handful of semis with the rest terraced and all two or even three stories.

Parking is on the road, both sides, or blocking the pavement with the inadequate drives. Rows over parking are common.

Nobody living on this 2000s extension could have an electric car because they would have no guarantee that they could charge it each night; it would be entirely pot luck if they could park outside their house on any particular night.

Add in flats and HMOs then your 20% begins to look right.

For everyone else it's either keep an ICE going, pay through the nose for fast chargers or an ebike that they can charge in the hallway.

I had an hour's walk down through town to the beach and back yesterday. I was deliberately noticing the motors. It is really quite surprising just how many of our car stock is sub £3k cars parked on roads. You wouldn't notice it if you just drove round the leafy suburbs though.

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20 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

I had an hour's walk down through town to the beach and back yesterday. I was deliberately noticing the motors. It is really quite surprising just how many of our car stock is sub £3k cars parked on roads. You wouldn't notice it if you just drove round the leafy suburbs though.

That's coz you live on a retirement island :D

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  • 4 weeks later...
Rare Bear
On 14/01/2022 at 10:19, Option5 said:

Chatting to a guy who deals with end of lease car collection. Most of the hybrid company exec cars (mostly Merc E class) come back with the charging lead still sealed in the plastic bag it was supplied in.

Would that mean that they would be a good buy if you wanted a hybrid as the battery would be low cycles?

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Rare Bear
On 14/01/2022 at 12:09, markyh said:

That is a dumb arguement, you really expect the worlds car industry just to stop making new cars and switch overnight to a model of only producing spare parts to support all cars built in the past? 

Never going to happen.  You have much more chance of this happening with EV's. The vast majority on 2010-2012 EV's are still going strong and trouble free as EV's have much less to go wrong.  So older EV's will keep going longer reducung new car sales. 

We expect to keep our Tesla's 8-10 year minimum before, maybe changing. I doubt we will actually need to change them because they are to expensive to run / maintain. 

There will be lots of businesses catering for EV repair at reasonable prices by 2030.  

In the aircraft world, owning the type certificate if an out of production aircraft can be very lucrative. You can charge what you like for spare parts.

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Rare Bear
On 14/01/2022 at 16:11, ccc said:

So maybe 20 or so for a full charge ? 

Doesn't really matter. How often do people fill up their cars from almost empty to full ? I reckon it's a very small % of pump visits. 

Most will stick £20 in. That's maybe 3-5 mins charging. No biggie. 

As I said though - I don't think this is the plan. I just think if it is - it can work fairly easily. 

I tend to fill up when I get down to about a quarter tank. I've been doing that for decades.

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Dave Beans
On 14/01/2022 at 16:08, ccc said:

Why ? Many will charge at home. These will just take up the slack. 

I do think the plan is to overall reduce the proles access to private cars though. However in theory - if they can get the electricity production in place - that's the Biggie - then I see no reason why all the UK cars today couldn't be changed to electric with few issues. 

As above though - I don't think that's the plan.

Welcome to the world of "surge pricing"...

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/smart-meter-changes-could-see-surge-in-pricing-for-millions-121858095.html

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Frank Hovis
17 hours ago, Rare Bear said:

I tend to fill up when I get down to about a quarter tank. I've been doing that for decades.

 

I'm the same these days.

When I was doing 500 miles a week on a routine and predictable commute I used to go from almost empty to full each time purely to reduce the number of visits; I used particular petrol stations at either end of the commute so never needed to worry about finding one.

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9 hours ago, The Generation Game said:

It's worked well for Derby County!

I have hade this since 2018 with Green Energy tide the Octopus Go , Smets 1 now on Smets 2.   This is why i'm installing £10k of battery storage in April or sooner.  

Pricing and taxation is how you "steer" peoples habits. There wont be people coming home and all plugging their EV's in a 6pm while cooking diner with light's and heating on in Winter, heavy load stuff will be on timers to use leccy after midnight. once industry / retail has mostly powered down. 

On a separate note, saw a new local record high for Diesel today, 157.9p ltr.  Just wow, Not used a drop of ICE fuel now since December. 

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  • 1 month later...

Local update of the pump diesel price madness around me with is amusing me on a daily basis now, obviously whoever is cheapest is sell out quickly and having to refill their tanks at new wholesale prices, so the old most expensive in town last week becomes the cheapest, and round they go like dogs chasing tails. 

Murco was the tiny 2 pump garage everyone usually ignores as it is 5p ltr more, suddenly under 160p ltr it is the cheapest, and sells out, ESSO the most expensive last week is now the cheapest @ 177.9p ltr, Shell has jumped to 177.9p to match it. Tesco which was 170.9p last week has now jumped to 180.9p , BP has now trumped all at 182.9p , and now Murco has had to rebuy and had jumped 25p ltr to 185.9p!!! 

Still smiling as i drive past in the EV.  Local Facebook groups are having a Meltdown over this.  

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Wight Flight
58 minutes ago, markyh said:

Local update of the pump diesel price madness around me with is amusing me on a daily basis now, obviously whoever is cheapest is sell out quickly and having to refill their tanks at new wholesale prices, so the old most expensive in town last week becomes the cheapest, and round they go like dogs chasing tails. 

Murco was the tiny 2 pump garage everyone usually ignores as it is 5p ltr more, suddenly under 160p ltr it is the cheapest, and sells out, ESSO the most expensive last week is now the cheapest @ 177.9p ltr, Shell has jumped to 177.9p to match it. Tesco which was 170.9p last week has now jumped to 180.9p , BP has now trumped all at 182.9p , and now Murco has had to rebuy and had jumped 25p ltr to 185.9p!!! 

Still smiling as i drive past in the EV.  Local Facebook groups are having a Meltdown over this.  

Yep. Our roads are getting clogged up as people queue down the road to get in the petrol stations.

The smug EV drivers here on holiday aren't quite so smug. Our public charging points are mainly in the petrol stations, so they have to queue with the plebs.

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reformed nice guy

If a Tesla model 3 gets 100 miles for 34kwh and a kwh is 25p, then its 8.5p per mile. Of an electricity bill 25% is for green tax. Removing that would be 6.375p per mile.

If a car does 60 mpg then 1 litre does about 13.2 miles. At £1.60/l thats 12.12p per mile.

If the fuel duty is 57.95 pence per litre, then without that it would cost 7.73p per mile. Removing VAT and similar would move it downwards, less efficient car upwards etc.

If a kwh goes up to 35p then its 11.9p per mile, or 8.925p excluding the green tax.

If a kwh goes up to 50p then its 17p per mile, or 12.75p excluding green tax.

It looks like its mainly the government that is the problem here!

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5 hours ago, reformed nice guy said:

If a Tesla model 3 gets 100 miles for 34kwh and a kwh is 25p, then its 8.5p per mile. Of an electricity bill 25% is for green tax. Removing that would be 6.375p per mile.

If a car does 60 mpg then 1 litre does about 13.2 miles. At £1.60/l thats 12.12p per mile.

If the fuel duty is 57.95 pence per litre, then without that it would cost 7.73p per mile. Removing VAT and similar would move it downwards, less efficient car upwards etc.

If a kwh goes up to 35p then its 11.9p per mile, or 8.925p excluding the green tax.

If a kwh goes up to 50p then its 17p per mile, or 12.75p excluding green tax.

It looks like its mainly the government that is the problem here!

Your figures are way off EV reality, Our Tesla model 3 now around 5k miles since December is averaging 3.5m kwh and it's now creeping up now winter is gone. Will be 4m/kwh by late spring and 4.5-5m kwh in Summer.  I expect a 12 month average to be 4 m/kwh. 

So that's only 25kwh + 10% losses, say 28kwh for 100 miles. I charge ever free excess solar PV divert to the Tesla, or at night for 4 hours on Octopus Go now 7.5p kwh, this is now fixed until March 20th 2023.  So that's 1.88p mile where i pay for it, less as an average with free excess solar Spring/Simmer/Early Autumn. 

Fook all you can do about Diesel prices, self generation is not possible, you are all passengers, and where i live 177.9p ltr is now the cheapest you can buy , so that's about 13.5p mile for 60mpg ,  but i truely doubt many doing shorter journeys get anywhere much above 50mpg average, i never did, so reality is 16p mile or more.  

16p mile vs 1.88p mile. I know which i would choose. 

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