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Cunning Plan

Ken. Is he or isn't he?

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Anti-semitic?

I guess like most of us I am finding it impossible to get a straight answer from the MSM

I sort of think that Ken is taking a different view of historical events to many others - but that either could be argued to be correct.

But then again he could be the love child of Himmler himself.

Any opinion on this one?

 

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Regarding the comments themselves -- Ken is a bit of a clever-dick and likes to show off his half-baked research, but the answer (IMO) is to address his comments directly rather than shout 'anti-Semite!'   He's clearly correct in that the Nazi's did try to get all the Jews to leave Germany, but absolutely wrong in that he describes them as being Zionists -- they encouraged the Jews to leave because they didn't want them in Germany, not to be kind.  It was a stupid comment (probably tongue-in-cheek, but that's no excuse) but he should be met with the (rational) counter argument and shown to be a bit stupid.  

This said, IMO we have a particular problem with criticism of Israel being considered the same as antisemitism.    We really need to get over this -- Israel is a country that can make mistakes and we need to be able to criticise this.

This kind-of extends to the Nazi-Jew atrocities, but it is so much of an emotional thing (as most Jewish people have relatives who were killed in the camps) it is stupid and disrespectful to mouth out that 'something didn't happen that way' and is probably best left to the academics rather than after-dinner speeches.  

 

Edited by dgul

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Ken an anti semite? No. I quite like people who question things our history teachers never told us. And anyway, I am more concerned with the rise of people who are anti-semantic. They scare me with their erroneous use of language.

 

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3 minutes ago, SNACR said:

Never opened that chip shop either.

There's an old TV series called Get Lost about a bloke who wants to escape his everyday life and go to work in a chip shop. Perhaps where Ken got his inspiration from? 

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57 minutes ago, dgul said:

Regarding the comments themselves -- Ken is a bit of a clever-dick and likes to show off his half-baked research, but the answer (IMO) is to address his comments directly rather than shout 'anti-Semite!'   He's clearly correct in that the Nazi's did try to get all the Jews to leave Germany, but absolutely wrong in that he describes them as being Zionists -- they encouraged the Jews to leave because they didn't want them in Germany, not to be kind.  It was a stupid comment (probably tongue-in-cheek, but that's no excuse) but he should be met with the (rational) counter argument and shown to be a bit stupid.  

This said, IMO we have a particular problem with criticism of Israel being considered the same as antisemitism.    We really need to get over this -- Israel is a country that can make mistakes and we need to be able to criticise this.

This kind-of extends to the Nazi-Jew atrocities, but it is so much of an emotional thing (as most Jewish people have relatives who were killed in the camps) it is stupid and disrespectful to mouth out that 'something didn't happen that way' and is probably best left to the academics rather than after-dinner speeches.  

 

You think the German Zionists were sending Jews to Palestine out of kindness?

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The Nazis basically wanted to get Jews out of Germany

To facilitate that process they used whatever means necessary including duping some leaders of the Jewish community to assist them

Hitler was never a Zionist. He ultimately wanted all Jews dead not in Israel.

When the Nazis invaded North Africa they took their European 'modus operandi' with them

SS Unit Created to Kill Jews in North Africa

Behind the front line of Rommel's Afrikakorps, a special unit was created in July 1942 to to plan the murder of Jews in the region. It was led by SS Obersturmbannführer, or Lieutenant Colonel, Walther Rauff, an experienced mass murderer who helped develop the mobile gassing vehicles the Germans used to murder Jewish people in their campaign in eastern Europe and the Soviet Union.

Rauff and his men were empowered to "take executive measures against the civilian population", Nazi jargon for robbery, murder and enslavement.

The Jews of Palestine were spared that fate. In October 1942 the Allies halted the German advance at the Egyptian town of El Alamein and thereby destroyed the myth of Rommel's invincibility. The Desert Fox had to evacuate his beaten army to Tunisia, back where his African campaign began.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/world-war-ii-new-research-taints-image-of-desert-fox-rommel-a-484510.html

All that Livingstone has proved is that he is a lousy historian

Edited by Flirtygirty

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2 minutes ago, Flirtygirty said:

The Nazis basically wanted to get Jews out of Germany

To facilitate that process they used whatever means necessary including duping some leaders of the Jewish community to assist them

Hitler was never a Zionist. He ultimately wanted all Jews dead not in Israel.

When the Nazis invaded North Africa their European 'modus operandi' with them

SS Unit Created to Kill Jews in North Africa

Behind the front line of Rommel's Afrikakorps, a special unit was created in July 1942 to to plan the murder of Jews in the region. It was led by SS Obersturmbannführer, or Lieutenant Colonel, Walther Rauff, an experienced mass murderer who helped develop the mobile gassing vehicles the Germans used to murder Jewish people in their campaign in eastern Europe and the Soviet Union.

Rauff and his men were empowered to "take executive measures against the civilian population", Nazi jargon for robbery, murder and enslavement.

The Jews of Palestine were spared that fate. In October 1942 the Allies halted the German advance at the Egyptian town of El Alamein and thereby destroyed the myth of Rommel's invincibility. The Desert Fox had to evacuate his beaten army to Tunisia, back where his African campaign began.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/world-war-ii-new-research-taints-image-of-desert-fox-rommel-a-484510.html

All that Livingstone has proved is that he is a lousy historian

I have come to the conclusion that we will ever know the absolute truth. There are so many versions of the 'truth'.

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I know a lot of left wingers and they all hate jews but hide it by calling them zionists. I'm not an anti-semite, it's zionists wot I don't like.

They are always the same people to shout: nazi, fascist at anyone they don't agree with.

Funny coz a lot of jews have been attracted to socialism.

Edited by davidg

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2 hours ago, Flirtygirty said:

The Nazis basically wanted to get Jews out of Germany

To facilitate that process they used whatever means necessary including duping some leaders of the Jewish community to assist them

 

It is worth pointing out that quite a few nations were keen to set up a Jewish State at the time.  Some of this was Zionism, but quite a bit was simply antisemitism.

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1 hour ago, davidg said:

I know a lot of left wingers and they all hate jews but hide it by calling them zionists. I'm not an anti-semite, it's zionists wot I don't like.

They are always the same people to shout: nazi, fascist at anyone they don't agree with.

Funny coz a lot of jews have been attracted to socialism.

So why do so many on the left hate Jews? 

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Just now, The XYY Man said:

Wouldn't it be easier if we all just agreed that he's a complete cunt - and lock any further comments on this thread...?

At least then my slutty wife couldn't ridicule me...

 

XYY

 

DOSBODS isn't moderated you spazzy twat - I think I'll abuse you all fuckin' night for that remark...!

 

Mrs XYY

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Q. How many XYY men does it take to change the batteries in a torch...?

A, It doesn't matter how many XYYs there are - I've flattened all the batteries jammng the "rampant-rabbit" he paid forty-quid for up me fanny all night....

 

Mrs XYY

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44 minutes ago, dgul said:

If you read the words you'll find I said the opposite. 

I don't think anything Livingstone said was factually incorrect, just highly un-PC and embarrassing for modern day Zionists and Leftists, so not talked about much.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/30/ken-livingstone-repeats-claim-nazi-zionist-collaboration

National Socialism and Zionism might seem unlikely bedfellows (like Marcus Garvey's Pan-African movement and the kkk) but they actually had much in common since both were essentially ethnocentric political projects with compatible short term goals.

For instance, early Zionists like Herzl wrote openly about 'The Jewish question' in Germany and the importance of protecting Jewish racial identity against assimilation in terms that could easily pass today for the rants of Hitler or Goebbels.

 

Edited by Turned Out Nice Again

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I think he probably is by this point. No doubt he started out with a principled (albeit incorrect view) of Israel as an evil oppressor of Palestinians that was separate from the fact that Israel is a Jewish state but then he spent so much time over the years hanging around with people who actually hate Jews that it rubbed off on him and now he can't tell the difference.

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Firstly, nobody has mentioned lizards but that' s OK who needs a Cadillac anyway, I got the medicine make you see the light call me in Alaska if it all turns out right....

GLC, GLC, you're full of shit, shit, shit, well yes, but the free bus fares were great....

    

 

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