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Petrol & diesel motorbikes to be banned in UK by 2035 (old news)


Andersen

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UK.gov has announced that the sale of petrol & diesel motorbikes will be outlawed by 2035 - this was formalised in July but they didn't publicise it - I wonder why !

A bit long (monotone voice, lots of waffle but some solid info) -

Source is unconfirmed but there are plenty of similar reports https://duckduckgo.com/?q=uk+to+ban+sale+of+motorcycles+2035&t=brave&ia=web

:PissedOff:

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It's probably a case of let the free market, and the consumer decide. The market for ICE vehicles may decline. In the case of motorcycles, electric ones make more sense than the cars.

The government should have no say in what the customer buys.

It's called a "free market".

I expect motorcycles make very little contribution to pollution.

Edited by MrPin
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Caravan Monster

The electric bikes are improving all the time, but there simply isn't enough lithium to make all the batteries. Surely this legislation will have to be repealed when it becomes evidently unworkable  and 2035 approaches. This one is an 80 horsepower :o Swedish motocrosser. I suspect the performance numbers are rather like 'covid' statistics. The company owner looks like a Bond villain xD

https://starkfuture.com/en-us-GB

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Caravan Monster said:

The electric bikes are improving all the time, but there simply isn't enough lithium to make all the batteries. Surely this legislation will have to be repealed when it becomes evidently unworkable  and 2035 approaches. This one is an 80 horsepower :o Swedish motocrosser. I suspect the performance numbers are rather like 'covid' statistics. The company owner looks like a Bond villain xD

https://starkfuture.com/en-us-GB

 

 

Nobody is buying electric motorbikes. Nobody wants them. When petrol is banned people will just stop motorcycling

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Caravan Monster
15 minutes ago, whitevanman said:

Nobody is buying electric motorbikes. Nobody wants them. When petrol is banned people will just stop motorcycling

Investors have been pouring money into developing them for years now, but I can't remember ever having seen one on the road. 

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We had a similar discussion on here recently about the cost and practicality of high powered electric E-bicycles vs cheap mopeds / 125cc IC bikes.

E-cycles take many hours to charge, and charging points away from home are limited. If you live in a flat you can't easily charge it. By contrast a moped / 125cc bike costs less to buy and you can refill the tank in a few minutes at any petrol station. We don't have the battery technology at an affordable price, or the charging infrastructure to make elec motorbikes a practical alternative :/ 

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  • 4 months later...
markyh
4 hours ago, Caravan Monster said:

National Motorcyclists Council (tbh never heard of them) calls on government to abandon stupid unworkable zero carbon policy for something more realistic:

https://www.acu.org.uk/News/2022/05/NMC-Calls-on-The-Government-to-Show-More-Ambition-on-Motorcycle-Decarbonisation/

Without a cut off date, no MotorCycle manufacturer will develop BEV versions for market.  and they are not banning existing stock off the roads until at least 2049.  2035 is just new sales BEV only. 

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whitevanman
1 hour ago, markyh said:

Without a cut off date, no MotorCycle manufacturer will develop BEV versions for market.  and they are not banning existing stock off the roads until at least 2049.  2035 is just new sales BEV only. 

They wouldn’t develop electric motorbikes because nobody wants them. Nobody wants them because they are shite

Even with the ban they won’t develop leccy bikes because given a choice between having a battery powered bike and having no bike, people will choose the later

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To be fair, electric motor bikes are quite fun with the instant torque from a standstill but that's also a massive downside as it makes it very easy to wheel spin. 

2 hours ago, markyh said:

Without a cut off date, no MotorCycle manufacturer will develop BEV versions for market.  and they are not banning existing stock off the roads until at least 2049.  2035 is just new sales BEV only. 

It this really a bad thing? There are LOADS of new competitors that have popped up doing electric bikes since the market was open, the reason you don't know the brands is because the products are shit. 

 

The only reason to use them currently is as a fun off road toy with something like the Sur Ron or to get around the city. 

Surron-Electric-mx-56696869_323640755020368_8103862362743767040_o.thumb.jpg.67ccb131ac068d3429fbf455c1178b7c.jpg

But at £4000 for a dirt bike that tops out at 40mph and only manages 60 miles at 15mph in perfect conditions.. Its useless if you don't travel to the dirt track with it in another vehicle or have a track behind your house.

 

Same with the 125cc equivalent mopeds, most I see driving around are doing deliveries, one of the best options I've seen promoted by riders is the niu. 

https://www.niu.com/en/m/n-series/

Extra £1000(up to 15,000mi worth of fuel for 125cc)to double the battery capacity to 100mi, 4-6h charging time and only 2 year warranty on bike and batteries and you're also limited to 40 something mph which if you drive at, will chew through your 'miles left' 

Meaning you'd need an extra 2 batteries at £2000+ if you want to swap out batteries, that's nearly 30,000mi of fuel and almost enough to buy a brand new cheap 125.

 

If you're going electric on a bike you may as well use an e push bike and save yourself loads of money and hassle. 

The emoped or emotorbike adds a LOT of weight onto the frame and you're going to die to anything that would kill you on a bike anyway. 

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whitevanman
29 minutes ago, Myco said:

To be fair, electric motor bikes are quite fun with the instant torque from a standstill but that's also a massive downside as it makes it very easy to wheel spin. 

It this really a bad thing? There are LOADS of new competitors that have popped up doing electric bikes since the market was open, the reason you don't know the brands is because the products are shit. 

 

The only reason to use them currently is as a fun off road toy with something like the Sur Ron or to get around the city. 

Surron-Electric-mx-56696869_323640755020368_8103862362743767040_o.thumb.jpg.67ccb131ac068d3429fbf455c1178b7c.jpg

But at £4000 for a dirt bike that tops out at 40mph and only manages 60 miles at 15mph in perfect conditions.. Its useless if you don't travel to the dirt track with it in another vehicle or have a track behind your house.

 

Same with the 125cc equivalent mopeds, most I see driving around are doing deliveries, one of the best options I've seen promoted by riders is the niu. 

https://www.niu.com/en/m/n-series/

Extra £1000(up to 15,000mi worth of fuel for 125cc)to double the battery capacity to 100mi, 4-6h charging time and only 2 year warranty on bike and batteries and you're also limited to 40 something mph which if you drive at, will chew through your 'miles left' 

Meaning you'd need an extra 2 batteries at £2000+ if you want to swap out batteries, that's nearly 30,000mi of fuel and almost enough to buy a brand new cheap 125.

 

If you're going electric on a bike you may as well use an e push bike and save yourself loads of money and hassle. 

The emoped or emotorbike adds a LOT of weight onto the frame and you're going to die to anything that would kill you on a bike anyway. 

Most mopeds don’t even do more that 10k miles in their entire existence. They get used for short commutes by youngsters who usually crash them or they get stolen. Electrification adds a whole load of cost for no benefit to the user. It’s a massively wasteful investment 

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16 hours ago, whitevanman said:

They wouldn’t develop electric motorbikes because nobody wants them. Nobody wants them because they are shite

Even with the ban they won’t develop leccy bikes because given a choice between having a battery powered bike and having no bike, people will choose the later

I disagree, because they already exist. Ideal for low mieage sporty bike or a cheap commuter. No good for trekking across continents.

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Cheap commuter doesn't seem to be an option, the cheapest e mopeds are easily double the price of the cheapest mopeds and you're looking at less than 50mi of range with those models. 

Have you tried checking insurance for e mopeds/bikes too? Depending on your area and insurer the price can have massive increases switching to electric. 

 

As a fun toy they're great but the very small milage means your options are very limited to where it can go and the price on them is insane compared to ICE bikes. 

A single battery replacement or to double capacity is going to cost not too much less than the entire amount of fuel you'll use over the time you own the bike.

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The XYY Man
3 hours ago, MrPin said:

I disagree, because they already exist. Ideal for low mieage sporty bike or a cheap commuter. No good for trekking across continents.

So basically, pizza deliverers and Evel Knievel would benefit from having one.

 

XYY

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Andersen

Ignoring costs*, a huge drawback to electric bike is the ability to charge - and the time it takes. A high proportion of the market who need cheap transport (youngsters on NMW living in a shared flat) have no charge point and no secure place to leave the bike charging for several hours. Range is also a problem, I expect 200+ miles from any ICE bike I've owned and 5 mins at a  petrol station to refill the tank when it runs low. Compared to sub-50 miles on elec and hours to recharge if / where you can find a charge point. They are not practical for a very large section of the potential buyers.

* Accepth Ebikes cost more then ICE to buy, and the batteries will need to be replaced a lot sooner than the ICE motor)

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markyh
8 hours ago, Andersen said:

Ignoring costs*, a huge drawback to electric bike is the ability to charge - and the time it takes. A high proportion of the market who need cheap transport (youngsters on NMW living in a shared flat) have no charge point and no secure place to leave the bike charging for several hours. Range is also a problem, I expect 200+ miles from any ICE bike I've owned and 5 mins at a  petrol station to refill the tank when it runs low. Compared to sub-50 miles on elec and hours to recharge if / where you can find a charge point. They are not practical for a very large section of the potential buyers.

* Accepth Ebikes cost more then ICE to buy, and the batteries will need to be replaced a lot sooner than the ICE motor)

You can pedal an ebike when the battery is flat, you mean e-motorbike i assume. 

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  • 5 weeks later...
Red Debt Redemption
On 22/12/2021 at 23:23, Andersen said:

We had a similar discussion on here recently about the cost and practicality of high powered electric E-bicycles vs cheap mopeds / 125cc IC bikes.

E-cycles take many hours to charge, and charging points away from home are limited. If you live in a flat you can't easily charge it. By contrast a moped / 125cc bike costs less to buy and you can refill the tank in a few minutes at any petrol station. We don't have the battery technology at an affordable price, or the charging infrastructure to make elec motorbikes a practical alternative :/ 

E-cycles are where it makes most sense if not the only sense out of all ev's.

No tax.

No mot.

No registering.

No insurance.

No licence or cbt.

Basic home servicing - tyres, brakes, chains, greasing etc simple diy.

Battery detaches to charge easily anywhere.

Similar price to 125's depending on spec.

Parts are fairly cheap depending on what you are running, 125's prolly similar cheap also.

Can go pretty much anywhere if MTB.

No safety gear / clothing costs if you don't want them.

No one cares what you are running as long as you don't make it mega obvious. They don't notice you from lack of noise so you don't exist.

Batteries £400-600 depending on volts, ah, manufacturer.

4 hour ish charge roughly.

Full charge less than a kW leccy 20-30p? Get 30-50+ miles depending on speeds, assistance level.

Secondary batteries can be carried on a rack etc. This would bump up the cost.

£200 fine iirc for drunk in charge of a cycle.

Edited by Red Debt Redemption
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Even if they ban sales of new ones from 2035, people will still be driving them around for 100 years afterwards. Plenty will go out and buy multiple petrol bikes the day before the ban comes into effect.

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Wight Flight
1 hour ago, Errol said:

Even if they ban sales of new ones from 2035, people will still be driving them around for 100 years afterwards. Plenty will go out and buy multiple petrol bikes the day before the ban comes into effect.

Until they close petrol stations.

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Dave Beans
53 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

Until they close petrol stations.

Then you'll get dangerous, dodgy backstreet distillaries...People trying to concoct wild, explosive potions to feed the market...

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