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Coinbase tax notice / HMRC


spunko

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Anyone got this?

Quote

 

We’re writing to let you know about a notice HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) issued to Coinbase under Paragraph 1, Schedule 23 to the Finance Act 2011. This notice requires us to provide information on your Coinbase account to HMRC.

 

The notice requires the disclosure of customers with a UK address who received payments of more than £5,000 in fiat currency out of electronic stored value payment services provided by CB Payments LTD during the 2019 and 2020 tax years. 

 

 

Uh oh...

 

 

I can't quite remember if I cashed my profits before this or not. Guess I'll find out soon :D

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jamtomorrow
1 hour ago, spunko said:

Anyone got this?

 

Uh oh...

 

 

I can't quite remember if I cashed my profits before this or not. Guess I'll find out soon :D

Yup, got it today

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wherebee

standard.  US IRS has been doing this for years.

The problem is, of course, that if someone set up a coinbase account using your ID, you are fucked as there is really no way of proving it was not you trading....

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goldbug9999
7 minutes ago, wherebee said:


The problem is, of course, that if someone set up a coinbase account using your ID, you are fucked as there is really no way of proving it was not you trading....

?? - all the big exchanges do ID verification using passport.

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wherebee
20 minutes ago, goldbug9999 said:

?? - all the big exchanges do ID verification using passport.

yeah.  because fake IDs are never available to criminals, eh.

 

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21 minutes ago, wherebee said:

yeah.  because fake IDs are never available to criminals, eh.

 

I think the point is how do they know where u live?

keep below the parapet trooper! And who knows where the parapet is :ph34r:

Edited by nirvana
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goldbug9999
54 minutes ago, wherebee said:

yeah.  because fake IDs are never available to criminals, eh.

So what exactly is the theoretical scenario here - that some criminal creates an exchange account in my name and sends a million quid into my bank account which I forgot to pay tax on and was forced to pay say half of it in tax and penalties ??. Yeah Id be gutted.

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I notice HMRC have taken a leaf out of the IRS' book and created an online form where you can dob yourself in. Suffice to say I won't be implicating myself :D

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Green Devil
1 hour ago, spunko said:

I notice HMRC have taken a leaf out of the IRS' book and created an online form where you can dob yourself in. Suffice to say I won't be implicating myself :D

If you google it, it looks like it has been commented that it looks like a scam based on the original Crypto Advisories Letters that HMRC sent out last year from the "Coinbase Users list". (Ie they sent letters to all UK resident users of CB that they have your details. That included all user that either bought sold or traded crypto). 

Surely this is a breach of GDPR? Isnt that what the EU told it was going to look after, ensuring that our private data wasnt sold or even given to other organistations, what a crock.

 

Edited by Green Devil
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wherebee
1 hour ago, goldbug9999 said:

So what exactly is the theoretical scenario here - that some criminal creates an exchange account in my name and sends a million quid into my bank account which I forgot to pay tax on and was forced to pay say half of it in tax and penalties ??. Yeah Id be gutted.

no, they use your ID to open an account at coinbase.  The funds come in from an account they control (not in your name -coinbase can't see the source account name, they have the account number, that is all).  The funds leave to the same account.

You know nothing.  You MkII makes a million quid on trading.  HMRC write to you.  The accounts used at the banks have been shut down by the time they ask coinbase any information.

 

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goldbug9999
2 hours ago, wherebee said:

no, they use your ID to open an account at coinbase.  The funds come in from an account they control (not in your name -coinbase can't see the source account name, they have the account number, that is all).  The funds leave to the same account.

You know nothing.  You MkII makes a million quid on trading.  HMRC write to you.  The accounts used at the banks have been shut down by the time they ask coinbase any information.

So exactly how many people has this happened to in real life then ?

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There must be a way to convert crypto back into fiat without using one of these exchanges that ask for all this ID. Anyone know of a way? Not that I have much to withdraw now, but it must be possible.

I suppose you could use one of these tumblers and hide the "source" of the funds. For example you just suddenly receive £5000 in fiat via Coinbase and leave it up to HMRC to prove it was you who put it through the tumbler. Given that's technically impossible to prove without a confession I doubt HMRC would pursue it!

But regardless you'd still need to pay income tax/CGT on it I guess. Hmm, maybe the only way is to spend the crypto without withdrawing to fiat. ANyway back to the drawing board.

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Joncrete Cungle
3 hours ago, whitevanman said:

Great, I’ll be able to offset my income taxes against my crypto losses. HMRC will owe me big time!

Years ago HMRC tried to wring a bit of tax money out of anglers who take part in fishing matches. The winner of the match got about £200, second place £150, third place £100 and section winners £50.

All was well in the eyes of HMRC as those evil fish abusers had to pay their fair share.....

At the next self assessment all those who had been extorted submitted their pukka claims with receipts and invoices for thousands and thousands of pounds worth of new top of the range fishing tackle, brand new top of the range goretex branded waterproofs. Well over two thousand pounds worth of bait, permit, licence and day ticket costs. Match fees, peg fees and mileage to travel to the competition's, food, drink and overnight stays etc.

It didn't take HMRC long to decide that they no longer wanted to try and extort anglers....

 

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Green Devil
1 hour ago, spunko said:

There must be a way to convert crypto back into fiat without using one of these exchanges that ask for all this ID. Anyone know of a way? Not that I have much to withdraw now, but it must be possible.

I suppose you could use one of these tumblers and hide the "source" of the funds. For example you just suddenly receive £5000 in fiat via Coinbase and leave it up to HMRC to prove it was you who put it through the tumbler. Given that's technically impossible to prove without a confession I doubt HMRC would pursue it!

But regardless you'd still need to pay income tax/CGT on it I guess. Hmm, maybe the only way is to spend the crypto without withdrawing to fiat. ANyway back to the drawing board.

This is why the whole regulation is a load of bollocks. The fiat on off ramps are completely controlled centrally by kyc exchanges. They have been for years.

The regulation is more about protecting the profits of the big banks under the guise of its dangerous youll get scamned btc is for crooks narrative. 

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Formerly
5 hours ago, spunko said:

....

But regardless you'd still need to pay income tax/CGT on it I guess. Hmm, maybe the only way is to spend the crypto without withdrawing to fiat. ANyway back to the drawing board.

This remains one of the biggest drawbacks of crypto for me. If it was more useable as a currency, it would be more stable and, well, useful!

Of course you can say the same about other assets, but few are feared by government as much as crypto and many are more established. They are generally easier to exchange for fiat (although Neil Woodford's customers may disagree)!

Edited by Formerly
automistake by phone
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Dave Beans
26 minutes ago, Formerly said:

This remains one of the biggest drawbacks of crypto for me. If it was more useable as a currency, it would be more stable and, well, useful!

Of course you can say the same about other assets, but few are feared by government as much as crypto and many are more established. They are generally easier to exchange for fiat (although Neil Woodford's customers may disagree)!

...you could always move to El Salvador...

https://www.euronews.com/next/2021/06/12/bitcoin-is-el-salvador-the-first-domino-to-fall-as-latin-america-embraces-cryptocurrencies

Edited by Dave Beans
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Green Devil
21 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/21/tech/el-salvador-bitcoin-city/index.html

The rumour is that panama are shortly going to do the same after watching el salvador initally. Watch and see and if it works jump on board. If thats the case then that would be a major coup being a large financial centre with a decent ecomony( the canal, finance etc)

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Dave Beans
27 minutes ago, Green Devil said:

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/21/tech/el-salvador-bitcoin-city/index.html

The rumour is that panama are shortly going to do the same after watching el salvador initally. Watch and see and if it works jump on board. If thats the case then that would be a major coup being a large financial centre with a decent ecomony( the canal, finance etc)

It might become the case that BTC / Crypto becomes the de-facto currency in a number of countries... It may well be more stable when compared to their local currency..

Edited by Dave Beans
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SpectrumFX
7 hours ago, spunko said:

There must be a way to convert crypto back into fiat without using one of these exchanges that ask for all this ID. Anyone know of a way? Not that I have much to withdraw now, but it must be possible.

I suppose you could use one of these tumblers and hide the "source" of the funds. For example you just suddenly receive £5000 in fiat via Coinbase and leave it up to HMRC to prove it was you who put it through the tumbler. Given that's technically impossible to prove without a confession I doubt HMRC would pursue it!

But regardless you'd still need to pay income tax/CGT on it I guess. Hmm, maybe the only way is to spend the crypto without withdrawing to fiat. ANyway back to the drawing board.

If you're not using your capital gains allowance for anything else, then that's ~£12k you can get out a year without any real bother.

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wherebee
11 hours ago, whitevanman said:

Great, I’ll be able to offset my income taxes against my crypto losses. HMRC will owe me big time!

In the US, I believe you can't log trading losses if the coins are held for a short time.  You are, however, liable for tax on the profits on short term trading.

WTF.

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Green Devil
17 hours ago, Dave Beans said:

It might become the case that BTC / Crypto becomes the de-facto currency in a number of countries... It may well be more stable when compared to their local currency..

Media is peddling the lines the salvadorians hate it. But then they would. Imf are trying to pull rank on el salvador and bully them into ditching btc. No surprise there. 

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goldbug9999
On 07/01/2022 at 15:03, Green Devil said:

Media is peddling the lines the salvadorians hate it. But then they would. Imf are trying to pull rank on el salvador and bully them into ditching btc. No surprise there. 

President Bukele has something like an 83% approval rating and given this is one of his most high profile policies it doesnt seem like it was that unpopular.

Edited by goldbug9999
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