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Frank Hovis

UK state should pay for housing, food, transport and internet

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They are assuming that everyone working will continue working if this is brought in.  I won't and nor will anyone else with sense; everyone will opt for a life of lesiure, exercise, and education.

Try funding this pipe dream then matey.
 

Quote

 

Free housing, food, transport and access to the internet should be given to British citizens in a massive expansion of the welfare state, according to a report warning the rapid advance of technology will lead to job losses.

Former senior government official Jonathan Portes and Professor Henrietta Moore, director of University College London’s Institute for Global Prosperity make the call for a raft of new “universal basic services” using the same principles as the NHS. They estimate it would cost about £42bn, which could be funded by changes to the tax system.

The recommendations include doubling Britain’s existing social housing stock with funding to build 1.5m new homes, which would be offered for free to those in most need. A food service would provide one third of meals for 2.2m households deemed to experience food insecurity each year, while free bus passes would be made available to everyone, rather than just the over-60s.

The proposals also include access to basic phone services, the internet, and the cost of the So-Called BBC licence fee being paid for by the state. :PissedOff:

John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, said the recommendations would “help inform Labour’s thinking”.

“This report offers bold new thinking on how we can overcome those challenges and create an economy that is radically fairer and offers opportunities for all,” he added.

Although British workers are expected to be put increasingly at risk from technological automation in the coming years, leading to job losses and a potential requirement for more state support, such wide-ranging reforms are likely to face tough opposition.

Voters may balk at the higher taxes required, with the report earmarking a massive reduction in the personal tax allowance from the current rate of £11,500 to as little as £4,300 to pay for the changes.

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/11/uk-universal-basic-services-jonathan-portes

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Voters may balk at the higher taxes required, with the report earmarking a massive reduction in the personal tax allowance from the current rate of £11,500 to as little as £4,300 to pay for the changes.

Sod it, it wouldn't be worth working.

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That's why they'll be sending the terminators to get rid of the poor.

Or organising  war/famine/disease to do the job. Capitalism has reached it's limit with the internet giants - everything possible to be funnelled up to the top will have been funnelled, all real assets will be in the hands of the elite and they will have robot servants. There is no further use for the masses.

 

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It reads superficially as pretty standard socialist "good intention" but the usual terrible implementation.

Free everything for everybody..  yeah, ok,  not sure how you think that will work but as a goal I guess it's laudable.

Ahh,  but then you read on..  not free everything for everyone..  just free stuff for everybody up to a cut off.  So actually promoting inequality and incentivising people above the cut off to under-perform and receive the privileges of those special few.

How about instead of that just do away with council housing completely and build enough houses for the population such that housing costs are no longer crippling. Then allow the market to function normally and give low earners / unemployed money towards the cost of living in a fair and equal way as is more or less already done already anyway?

The government could even use money from planning permission and development to reduce the tax burden or plow it back into state spending.  

Then in the meantime they could address the underlying issue of unbalanced net migration.

 

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There was a report and talking heads on the telly this morning about how a million households are going to be given subsidised fuel.  It was lauded asa good thing.  

What crossed my mind was fucking great, my bills go up to pay for this so that the feckless have even more bloody spare cash to spend.  

This policy crap is exactly the same.  The money will have to come from somewhere.  Those working will just have to suck it up and pay more. 

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I think you are being tongue-in-cheek here however your comment does reflect misconceptions about the CI.

Many people think it is "free money" and this is terrible because of Protestant ideology and bourgeois priggishness. The main advantage of CI is that the state effectively dispenses of the welfare state (the monetary aspects of it). It enables the state to return to "proper" capitalism whilst maintaining the post war social democratic contract.  

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4 minutes ago, Goat said:

Most of those shouting loudest for a CI don't seem to grasp this, it is in effect a massive benefit cut for "the poor" to fund a massive tax give-away to the better off.

Lovely, when are they introducing it?  

The problem with society is that there are far too many unproductive people being supported by too few people who actually work.  

There is also then the problem of massive state aid for the majority of businesses who appear not to be able to run without government paying a substantial part of their wage bill. 

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Just now, One percent said:

Lovely, when are they introducing it?  

The problem with society is that there are far too many unproductive people being supported by too few people who actually work.  

There is also then the problem of massive state aid for the majority of businesses who appear not to be able to run without government paying a substantial part of their wage bill. 

In Billfunk world, the CI would coincide with the abolition of the minimum wage. People would have the freedom to work for as little as they liked. There would be a functioning market in employment and this would encourage people to work harder if they expected more money. 

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4 minutes ago, billfunk said:

In Billfunk world, the CI would coincide with the abolition of the minimum wage. People would have the freedom to work for as little as they liked. There would be a functioning market in employment and this would encourage people to work harder if they expected more money. 

You would also have to remove in work benefits so as to force employers to pay realistic wages without relying on the state.  If they could not afford to, fine, they go under. 

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17 minutes ago, billfunk said:

I am not sure how it would be a tax give-away for the rich though I would think this rests on the level of income provided. Last time I looked £5,000 pa would be revenue neutral.

The main downside for the neoliberal establishment would be the decimation of housing costs. The two-up-two-down ex council house in Huddersfield or Leicester would be close to it's true value of 1 times local average wage, £20,000. Absolutely wonderful for the working man. Absolutely fucking awful for the neoliberal rentier vampire.

They aren't proposing giving people sufficient money to cover food, transport, internet and housing. They are going to dole out those things in whatever quantity and quality as will most enrich their preferred providers.

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8 minutes ago, Hail the Tripod said:

They aren't proposing giving people sufficient money to cover food, transport, internet and housing. They are going to dole out those things in whatever quantity and quality as will most enrich their preferred providers.

Gerrymandering leftwingers buying votes.

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We have an industry of people doing meaningless work that could be scrapped. The whole of DWP could be closed, replaced by a skeleton department for oversight of non- British Citizens benefits which will remain as before.

Keep primary school education, scrap all secondary and further education. Once children are able to read and write and do basic sums most of the other stuff is worthless.

Specialist education for required fields chargeable at point of delivery, mostly by computers and robots at home. Close all universities and colleges.

Scrap devolved assembly governments, scrap councils, organise all essential services to be run from Westminster.

Nationalise utilities, free water, gas and electricity for all. Nationalise railways and bus services to become free transport.

Might need a tweak but a complete rethink is needed.

 

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4 minutes ago, sarahbell said:

you'd have to ration gas and electric else people would live with the heating on and the windows open Like they do in every place whe heating is included.

All heating and power controlled by State, temps regulated by Hive type thermostats.

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12 minutes ago, Bedrag Justesen said:

We have an industry of people doing meaningless work that could be scrapped. The whole of DWP could be closed, replaced by a skeleton department for oversight of non- British Citizens benefits which will remain as before.

Keep primary school education, scrap all secondary and further education. Once children are able to read and write and do basic sums most of the other stuff is worthless.

Specialist education for required fields chargeable at point of delivery, mostly by computers and robots at home. Close all universities and colleges.

Scrap devolved assembly governments, scrap councils, organise all essential services to be run from Westminster.

Nationalise utilities, free water, gas and electricity for all. Nationalise railways and bus services to become free transport.

Might need a tweak but a complete rethink is needed.

 

Just stop giving any form of support to non British people.  If you have not paid in, you are entitled to nothing. Then you can do away with the skeleton staff 

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1 hour ago, billfunk said:

Just pay everyone above 16 £100 per week.

Abolish all unemployment benefits, housing benefits, state pensions, credits and bullshit.

Tell everyone to fuck off and sort themselves out.

Productivity will skyrocket within a year. Job done.

+1 million.

At present "benies" often go to the people who don't need them.

I'm an example of that: my son is mildly autistic. So we get a disability allowance for him. It took my wife literally weeks to fill out all the application forms. She could only manage it because she's a stay-at-home mum. If our financial situation was more precarious, and she had to work full-time, then we'd never get that disability allowance. So basically we're getting "benies", while families poorer than us, don't. It's madness.

Just give everyone a fixed sum, and tell them to sort themselves out.

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1 hour ago, JackieO said:

Sod it, it wouldn't be worth working.

Some would question whether it's even worth working now with job insecurity and the way many bosses seem to like to throw their weight around.  

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2 minutes ago, DeepLurker said:

+1 million.

At present "benies" often go to the people who don't need them.

I'm an example of that: my son is mildly autistic. So we get a disability allowance for him. It took my wife literally weeks to fill out all the application forms. She could only manage it because she's a stay-at-home mum. If our financial situation was more precarious, and she had to work full-time, then we'd never get that disability allowance. So basically we're getting "benies", while families poorer than us, don't. It's madness.

Just give everyone a fixed sum, and tell them to sort themselves out.

Agree, though £1 million is too much!

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Just now, twocents said:

Some would question whether it's even worth working now with job insecurity and the way many bosses seem to like to throw their weight around.  

If you are a single man or woman without a dependent or a disability the level of benefits is so low that you have to work if you want to be able do anything other than subsist whilst counting the pennies.

I do get hacked off when politicians talk about cutting the pittance that is JSA.

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