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swiss_democracy_for_all

Romanians and Bulgarians in the UK

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Here's one to warm the cockles of the Dosbods hearts....

And this is only the official figures.  

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/11/number-of-romanians-and-bulgarians-in-uk-rises-413000

They're piling in while they still can. And May just granted them another two years, Bulgaria will be empty of the Roma by then, they'll all be selling Big Issue.

Edited by swissy_fit

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4 minutes ago, MrPin said:

I worked with a Bulgarian bloke and he was extremely funny. He was an engineer for cellphone networks.

EE countries/ex USSR  very much split into the Techno-mangement class (20%) and peasants (80%).

This varies between country and how much they bought in the USSR thang.

Czechs - did not by in, stayed educated.

Balkans - stayed criminal, blood feuding peasants.

Poles - somewhere it between.

1 minute ago, Great Guy said:

I remember Farage warned this would happen and he was dismissed.

I bet hardly any of them make a net contribution to the UK.

Each fmaily of EE mamd dad 2 kids is costing the UK ~50K in cash.

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Just now, One percent said:

I'm ok with the ones that are working.

Economists are always puzzling why productivity in the UK is so low. It's probably because employers can get dirt cheap Labour instead of investing in automation.

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There was a programme on BBC R4 the other week, going on about the Bulgarian demographic disaster -- there aren't nearly enough younger people in the country to prevent their population dwindling catastrophically.  There are problems with professionals (doctors, teachers) as well as 'general people' (to support industry), and everything in between.

Anyway, the programme was going on and on about how the Bulgarians aren't 'positive about immigration' as a way to solve their problem.  

Oh, if only those Bulgarians would accept migrants from Africa, middle-east, etc, then their problems would be solved!  But they're all racist, so they're suffering.  The Fools!

There was absolutely nothing at all said about how the Bulgarians are leaving their country because western Europe gives them handouts to encourage them to migrate, in order to resolve their own demographic problems (doing the shitty jobs) as well as this old 'increase house prices / increase gdp / reduce wages through getting more and more people in the country'.

I have a feeling that the Bulgarians said quite a bit more about the immigration policies of the west, but it ended on the cutting-room floor.

 

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2 minutes ago, MrPin said:

I think:o Mr Grozhdanov paid taxes just like me.

Do 413,000 Bulgarians/ Romanians improve the quality of life in the UK though? Even if they were net tax contributors do we really want the congestion and green belt built on to accommodate them?

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3 minutes ago, dgul said:

There was a programme on BBC R4 the other week, going on about the Bulgarian demographic disaster -- there aren't nearly enough younger people in the country to prevent their population dwindling catastrophically.  There are problems with professionals (doctors, teachers) as well as 'general people' (to support industry), and everything in between.

Anyway, the programme was going on and on about how the Bulgarians aren't 'positive about immigration' as a way to solve their problem.  

Oh, if only those Bulgarians would accept migrants from Africa, middle-east, etc, then their problems would be solved!  But they're all racist, so they're suffering.  The Fools!

There was absolutely nothing at all said about how the Bulgarians are leaving their country because western Europe gives them handouts to encourage them to migrate, in order to resolve their own demographic problems (doing the shitty jobs) as well as this old 'increase house prices / increase gdp / reduce wages through getting more and more people in the country'.

I have a feeling that the Bulgarians said quite a bit more about the immigration policies of the west, but it ended on the cutting-room floor.

 

Imprting milliosn from Bulgaria/Africa/ME/Asian and letting them go n benefots does not solve the demographic problem.

The problem is not having enough workers. People coming from those countries have a zilch chance of being productive within 2 generations (60 years).

 

The UK needs to set a salary hurdle

- 30k for single people

60k for families.

Anyone nn nationals without a job paying that is made to leave.

Its that simple. And currently its a very serious prpblem - both ecomomic and hurdling th UK towards some form aof civil war.

 

 

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42 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Imprting milliosn from Bulgaria/Africa/ME/Asian and letting them go n benefots does not solve the demographic problem.

The problem is not having enough workers. People coming from those countries have a zilch chance of being productive within 2 generations (60 years).

 

The UK needs to set a salary hurdle

- 30k for single people

60k for families.

Anyone nn nationals without a job paying that is made to leave.

Its that simple. And currently its a very serious prpblem - both ecomomic and hurdling th UK towards some form aof civil war.

 

 

I don't care how much they earn, could be tuppence ha'penny for all that it matters to me.  The issue is whether this is then topped up by the taxpayer. This is what needs to be stopped. 

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13 minutes ago, One percent said:

I don't care how much they earn, could be tuppence ha'penny for all that it matters to me.  The issue is whether this is then topped up by the taxpayer. This is what needs to be stopped. 

That is public-sector thinking, sorry.

It matters what they earn as well because in the private sector it drags the market value of a job down for everyone if there is a massive influx of people who can do the job for less. This is true even of cleaners and the like.

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When I think of what those fucking scumbags Blair, Brown, Mandelson et al have done to my country I just want to cry.

The only way out is to effectively cancel the welfare state and throw our own people under the bus in order to attempt to deal with these immigrant benefits claimants. Plus we need to deport those convicted of crimes and actually go after them, crack down hard on shoplifters etc and throw them and their families out. Foreign and no job? Fuck off home. Foreign and homeless? Fuck off, you're not homeless you're in the wrong country.

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Despite the general prejudice against Romanians I've met a few and found them to be friendly and intelligent. They've spoken the language of their host country reasonably well as far as I can tell, I'm not a linguist. Admittedly a small sample but if its typical then they're not all Roma as the normal stereotype portrays them. 

One I met was a doctor treating my mother. My mother liked her and they got on well. Another was a waiter at a restaurant in Verona. Again he was intelligent we managed a conversation with my smattering of Italian and his smattering of English. There were also a few I met in Iceland, couldn't understand a word of Icelandish but as English is commonly spoken in Iceland they spoke English to a good standard. 

As for Bulgarians my friends mother in law is Bulgarian. A Stunningly beautiful woman even now, what she must have been like when she was younger, wow from some of her photographs that I've been shown. Again very intelligent speaks several languages including fluent English.

So my bias and stereotype differs markedly from that commonly held in the UK. So it just shows people are people, some you like others you don't know them so can't tell. One thing they have in common though is that they appeared to adapt to the country they were living in and appreciated the culture of their host.

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24 minutes ago, One percent said:

I don't care how much they earn, could be tuppence ha'penny for all that it matters to me.  The issue is whether this is then topped up by the taxpayer. This is what needs to be stopped. 

No. Its does matter.

Anybody working/residing in the UK has access to free at the point of use benefits.

For an working age individual, the NHS is about ~4k

Chuck in kids, and each ki costs 6k/head school, non working parent - 4k/head health benefits.

UK tax free limit is 12k - anyone earning that or less is paying fuck all tax.

Thats why anyone want to wrk in the UK should be expected to have a 30k job.

And thats just covering the cost of their stay.

If you are looking to actually make money i.e. generate extra tax revenue then any non UK resident needs to be changed 5k/head for NHS and 8k/ahead for schooling.

Any non UK pensioner shojuld not be allowed anywhere near a residency permit.

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I am not against any colour creed etc (though there are reasons I'm sure that you could be - you can tell the migrants they spit on street corners).

Its simply a numbers game. The place is already full and every service creeking and there's never room on the train or any parking spaces....

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8 minutes ago, sleepwello'nights said:

Despite the general prejudice against Romanians I've met a few and found them to be friendly and intelligent. They've spoken the language of their host country reasonably well as far as I can tell, I'm not a linguist. Admittedly a small sample but if its typical then they're not all Roma as the normal stereotype portrays them. 

One I met was a doctor treating my mother. My mother liked her and they got on well. Another was a waiter at a restaurant in Verona. Again he was intelligent we managed a conversation with my smattering of Italian and his smattering of English. There were also a few I met in Iceland, couldn't understand a word of Icelandish but as English is commonly spoken in Iceland they spoke English to a good standard. 

As for Bulgarians my friends mother in law is Bulgarian. A Stunningly beautiful woman even now, what she must have been like when she was younger, wow from some of her photographs that I've been shown. Again very intelligent speaks several languages including fluent English.

So my bias and stereotype differs markedly from that commonly held in the UK. So it just shows people are people, some you like others you don't know them so can't tell. One thing they have in common though is that they appeared to adapt to the country they were living in and appreciated the culture of their host.

Your dealing with post Soviet countries.

Again. 10-20% elite and 80-90% peasants.

I used to work with an Eastern European in the mid 90s. He'd been hothoused by commies and had spent 20 years getting hte best education (in technology) and languages that USSR money could buy - he could program z80s and understand complex electronics. And communication German, Russian and Chinese.

e wasl also the most anti-Commie/left person Id ever met.

He was exceptional. 90% of the USSR spent their time queuing or growing stuff.

 

 

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If yo u set a salary hurdle then you dont need to worry about colour creed and you can be magnimous to non UK.

And it keep migration simple and easy to say Yes or No.

Single? Have a job paying 35K? OK, you can have a work visa. And we check the NI number assinged.

Family? Job offer paying 60K plus? Funding educaiton and health yourself? No prolems, come in.

Everyone else fuck off.

 

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5 minutes ago, spygirl said:

No. Its does matter.

Anybody working/residing in the UK has access to free at the point of use benefits.

For an working age individual, the NHS is about ~4k

Chuck in kids, and each ki costs 6k/head school, non working parent - 4k/head health benefits.

UK tax free limit is 12k - anyone earning that or less is paying fuck all tax.

Thats why anyone want to wrk in the UK should be expected to have a 30k job.

And thats just covering the cost of their stay.

If you are looking to actually make money i.e. generate extra tax revenue then any non UK resident needs to be changed 5k/head for NHS and 8k/ahead for schooling.

Any non UK pensioner shojuld not be allowed anywhere near a residency permit.

Exactly, the whole basis of a welfare state is that it's there in times of great need.

It's not there to be used routinely by anybody and certain not people just dipping in, the idea is you all pay in a bit over your lifetime and then access when needed.

People coming over for 3-4 years, getting their kids educated and accessing the health service never contribute enough in to cover the costs. Somebody born here and contributing for a number years will rack up a certain amount of "credit"

It's not even the obvious ones like health and benefits, it's the entire infrastructure of the country that's been paid for and for the benefit of those people contributing over the longer term.

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3 minutes ago, gilf said:

Exactly, the whole basis of a welfare state is that it's there in times of great need.

It's not there to be used routinely by anybody and certain not people just dipping in, the idea is you all pay in a bit over your lifetime and then access when needed.

People coming over for 3-4 years, getting their kids educated and accessing the health service never contribute enough in to cover the costs. Somebody born here and contributing for a number years will rack up a certain amount of "credit"

It's not even the obvious ones like health and benefits, it's the entire infrastructure of the country that's been paid for and for the benefit of those people contributing over the longer term.

That is how the welfare state should work. However, it has now been weaponised by the neoliberals. It now only works as corporate welfare and to make the population dependent on the state. It is a tool of dehumanisation, demoralisation and genocide.

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32 minutes ago, sleepwello'nights said:

Despite the general prejudice against Romanians I've met a few and found them to be friendly and intelligent. They've spoken the language of their host country reasonably well as far as I can tell, I'm not a linguist. Admittedly a small sample but if its typical then they're not all Roma as the normal stereotype portrays them. 

I've been to Romania and the people are generally friendly and nice enough. It doesn't mean I want 413,000 of them in the country though...

I don't think they make the UK's economic cake much bigger but since there are so many of them each slice of "cake" gets smaller for us Brits. I see no possible way that I'm not poorer when we allow so many people into the country that have little to offer...

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