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Any of you have property in Ireland? This should concern you.


moneyscam

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moneyscam

As we march onwards to the Great Reset where you will own nothing and be happy, Ireland seeks to 'delimit' the right to private property for the 'common good' of residents (note not citizens) in a proposed Bill. I can't help thinking the publicity about seizing oligarch's assets is in some way softening up the masses for proposals like these. And I am also now suspicious of all the detailed questions about your property and how many bedrooms you had / people living there that were in the recent Census here.

 

 

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Lightly Toasted

Protocol to the Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms

...

ARTICLE 1
Protection of property
Every natural or legal person is entitled to the peaceful enjoyment
of his possessions. No one shall be deprived of his possessions
except in the public interest and subject to the conditions provided
for by law and by the general principles of international law.
The preceding provisions shall not, however, in any way impair
the right of a State to enforce such laws as it deems necessary
to control the use of property in accordance with the general
interest
or to secure the payment of taxes or other contributions
or penalties.

 

The "common good" argument for denying property rights is not new: Ireland already has "permission" to do this.

Incidentally, isn't it interesting that "legal persons" (i.e. corporations or other non-natural entities) have direct entitlements under a human rights protocol.

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belfastchild

If it gets through the dail and senate it should go to a referendum.

I had a piece of work input to this, it was all about ghost estates, empty holiday homes and empty plots bought before the crash and land banking until such times as things recover. There are also loads of older homes owned by the parents/grandparents of people who have long since emigrated and who either cant be traced or are just not interested. I looked at this a few years ago when I was trying to buy some old tumbledowns near Mayo.
It was attempted about 10 years ago through normal legislation and thrown out, but now private members bill aimed at a constitutional referendum.
At the minute I think there are 3 things attempting to be the 39th amendment.

I would say its more likely to get Sinn Fein voters than property owners in any referendum but it will depend on the number of homeowners etc and how its pitched. Id go long pitchforks... ;-)

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One percent
1 hour ago, Frank Hovis said:

There was a recent series of short slots on R4 looking at future green issues.

All the usual we "must" do this type of language.

One if the programmes was on housing suggesting that we "must" match housing to household numbers and that it will become "socially unacceptable" to have more rooms than you "need".

"Fuck right off" was my response.

With you on that.  I despair, i really do.  

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HousePriceMania
1 hour ago, Frank Hovis said:

There was a recent series of short slots on R4 looking at future green issues.

All the usual we "must" do this type of language.

One if the programmes was on housing suggesting that we "must" match housing to household numbers and that it will become "socially unacceptable" to have more rooms than you "need".

"Fuck right off" was my response.

I can see why people followed Hitler now, sadly.

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wherebee
4 hours ago, belfastchild said:

If it gets through the dail and senate it should go to a referendum.

I had a piece of work input to this, it was all about ghost estates, empty holiday homes and empty plots bought before the crash and land banking until such times as things recover. There are also loads of older homes owned by the parents/grandparents of people who have long since emigrated and who either cant be traced or are just not interested. I looked at this a few years ago when I was trying to buy some old tumbledowns near Mayo.
It was attempted about 10 years ago through normal legislation and thrown out, but now private members bill aimed at a constitutional referendum.
At the minute I think there are 3 things attempting to be the 39th amendment.

I would say its more likely to get Sinn Fein voters than property owners in any referendum but it will depend on the number of homeowners etc and how its pitched. Id go long pitchforks... ;-)

the Irish history of the state/landlords seizing homes is like a huge landmine though, surely?  

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belfastchild
1 minute ago, wherebee said:

the Irish history of the state/landlords seizing homes is like a huge landmine though, surely?  

I would have thought so, particularly out west.

But what the fuck do I know know, they lapped up the covid vax shite.

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Yadda yadda yadda

Perhaps the £350 per month to house Ukrainian asylum seekers in the UK (not sure if England only) should be seen in this context? You have "too much" space so we will force you to accept [person from group deemed worthy] for less than the market price. Alternatively you could sell up and live in a small flat. 

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Wight Flight
9 hours ago, Yadda yadda yadda said:

Perhaps the £350 per month to house Ukrainian asylum seekers in the UK (not sure if England only) should be seen in this context? You have "too much" space so we will force you to accept [person from group deemed worthy] for less than the market price. Alternatively you could sell up and live in a small flat. 

Sounds very much like the Cuban transport system to me.

If you are driving on a main road, at some bridges there will be a gaggle of people and an official. The official will flag you down, check where you are going how much space you have left and load you up with passengers accordingly. Sort of compulsory hitch-hiking.

To be fair it worked very well.

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16 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

There was a recent series of short slots on R4 looking at future green issues.

All the usual we "must" do this type of language.

One if the programmes was on housing suggesting that we "must" match housing to household numbers and that it will become "socially unacceptable" to have more rooms than you "need".

"Fuck right off" was my response.

This is pretty much baked in now, the momentum is growing all the time, eventually it'll be illegal to have too many extra bedrooms or to live in a large house on your own. 

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Frank Hovis
36 minutes ago, spunko said:

This is pretty much baked in now, the momentum is growing all the time, eventually it'll be illegal to have too many extra bedrooms or to live in a large house on your own. 

 

I wouldn't say illegal; I would rather say expensive.

Council tax is steadily moving from the idea of paying for services that you use into a property tax than can be used to affect how property is used.

Now some of this I am cheering - the removal of second home discount and the ability in Wales to charge 400% of the council tax upon a second home.

However I know that the shift that I am cheering is going to come back and bite me; as if CT is now an explicit property tax then why would you have a single person discount?  That will go.

The easy win is then "mansion tax" - all CT starts as a set percentage of the home's value without a cap.

And with that done you are then potentially going down the same road as Housing Benefit, which paid the rent of the house you are in, turning into LHA which pays the rent of the house that you should be in by your household size.  If you have extra rooms meaning more rent then you are paying that yourself.

Map that back onto Council Tax and then the standard, lowest, Council Tax Rate in any band is only available for those homes where the household size matches the house size.  Under-occupancy will attract a premium on CT.

This is going to be a long slow process but to guess a timeline:

  • Punitive council tax allowed on second homes in England: 2025
  • "Mansion tax" / falt percentage tax comes in: 2030
  • Single occupant discount withdrawn: 2035
  • Premiums for under-occupancy: 2040

 

Overall though, unless ridiculous premums are applied, I don't actually see that as a bad thing even though it will cost me more.  You already need to be seriously wealthy in many areas to buy a big home so why shouldn't that come with additional tax liability?

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Yadda yadda yadda
26 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

I wouldn't say illegal; I would rather say expensive.

Council tax is steadily moving from the idea of paying for services that you use into a property tax than can be used to affect how property is used.

Now some of this I am cheering - the removal of second home discount and the ability in Wales to charge 400% of the council tax upon a second home.

However I know that the shift that I am cheering is going to come back and bite me; as if CT is now an explicit property tax then why would you have a single person discount?  That will go.

The easy win is then "mansion tax" - all CT starts as a set percentage of the home's value without a cap.

And with that done you are then potentially going down the same road as Housing Benefit, which paid the rent of the house you are in, turning into LHA which pays the rent of the house that you should be in by your household size.  If you have extra rooms meaning more rent then you are paying that yourself.

Map that back onto Council Tax and then the standard, lowest, Council Tax Rate in any band is only available for those homes where the household size matches the house size.  Under-occupancy will attract a premium on CT.

This is going to be a long slow process but to guess a timeline:

  • Punitive council tax allowed on second homes in England: 2025
  • "Mansion tax" / falt percentage tax comes in: 2030
  • Single occupant discount withdrawn: 2035
  • Premiums for under-occupancy: 2040

 

Overall though, unless ridiculous premums are applied, I don't actually see that as a bad thing even though it will cost me more.  You already need to be seriously wealthy in many areas to buy a big home so why shouldn't that come with additional tax liability?

Utility bills are another way they can make large houses more expensive.

Digital ID is the way, all about controlling everything you do. It will be central to penalising people and removing freedom. I'll plonk this zerohedge link here although it could go in several threads:

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/10-signs-war-ukraine-part-great-reset

Edited by Yadda yadda yadda
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Frank Hovis
2 minutes ago, Yadda yadda yadda said:

Utility bills are another way they can make large houses more expensive.

Digital ID is the way all about controlling everything you do. It will be central to penalising people and removing freedom. I'll plonk this zerohedge link here although it could go in several threads:

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/10-signs-war-ukraine-part-great-reset

 

Though again is that necessarily a bad thing?

I liked the example given from South Africa where water is a fairly scarce resource.

Everyone's reasonable usage is assessed, whether by household or property size I don't know, and charged at a standard rate.

All usage above this is then billed at a premium rate.

It isn't rationing, you can have as much water as you can afford, but it is providing cost pressure to avoid wasting a limited resource.

One can see a benefit in this country; if you want an outdoor heated swimming pool that's fine, go ahead, but the additional electricity that you use to heat this will cost more per unit than what you pay on your usual allocation to reflect that electricity production is limited.

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Yadda yadda yadda
12 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

Though again is that necessarily a bad thing?

I liked the example given from South Africa where water is a fairly scarce resource.

Everyone's reasonable usage is assessed, whether by household or property size I don't know, and charged at a standard rate.

All usage above this is then billed at a premium rate.

It isn't rationing, you can have as much water as you can afford, but it is providing cost pressure to avoid wasting a limited resource.

One can see a benefit in this country; if you want an outdoor heated swimming pool that's fine, go ahead, but the additional electricity that you use to heat this will cost more per unit than what you pay on your usual allocation to reflect that electricity production is limited.

Housing is only a limited resource in this country due to immigration. I know you also want low or zero migration into the UK and especially Cornwall. The measures you're expecting are purely related to further migration. Space is a quality of life issue. Our quality of life is being reduced and in future rationed due to policies that, I believe, the majority don't want. Taxation is a technocrats solution to a problem of their own making.

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Frank Hovis
3 minutes ago, Yadda yadda yadda said:

Housing is only a limited resource in this country due to immigration. I know you also want low or zero migration into the UK and especially Cornwall. The measures you're expecting are purely related to further migration. Space is a quality of life issue. Our quality of life is being reduced and in future rationed due to policies that, I believe, the majority don't want. Taxation is a technocrats solution to a problem of their own making.

 

Agreed.

Though it isn't just migration into the UK that causes the problems; all migration from the third world into developed countries means a huge step up in the energy and water that those people use so making it generally scarcer.

Water is more of a localised issue but is already a problem for the countries that lie on the river Jordan or the Nile where more water can be taken by upstream countries; Ethiopia has recently built a huge dam that will reduce water flow to Sudan and Egypt.

As populations continue to rise it may even get to the point where the water of the Danube becomes a matter for international disagreements.

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Yadda yadda yadda
27 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

Agreed.

Though it isn't just migration into the UK that causes the problems; all migration from the third world into developed countries means a huge step up in the energy and water that those people use so making it generally scarcer.

Water is more of a localised issue but is already a problem for the countries that lie on the river Jordan or the Nile where more water can be taken by upstream countries; Ethiopia has recently built a huge dam that will reduce water flow to Sudan and Egypt.

As populations continue to rise it may even get to the point where the water of the Danube becomes a matter for international disagreements.

The councils around Cambridge know that water levels are running increasingly low. It is noted during major planning applications that they will stress the aquifers beyond sensible limits. Yet they still pass the plans.

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Frank Hovis
24 minutes ago, Yadda yadda yadda said:

The councils around Cambridge know that water levels are running increasingly low. It is noted during major planning applications that they will stress the aquifers beyond sensible limits. Yet they still pass the plans.

 

Similar in Cornwall; whilst, rare dry summers excepted, it rains more than in East Anglia most of the sewers can't cope with heavy rain on top of normal sewage / waste water so it just goes into the sea.

The water board cites "extreme weather events" but there were 5,500 such "releases" in 2021.

Extreme weather = rain.

Yet huge developments are allowed left right and centre without major sewage upgrades; they do happen but are infrequent and only happen when it has become so bad that you can smell it on a warm day.

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/profits-up-south-west-water-6282839

 

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Cattle Prod

To be kept an eye on, but it's been proposed be the eco lefty loony faction, and is still only on the second reading after 18 months.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2020/21/?tab=debates

A high proportion of TDs and Senators are property owners and landlords, so unless turkeys are now voting for Christmas, this has zero chance of becoming law. And as @belfastchild said, it'll go to referendum anyway, and be rejected. "Delimiting private property" in Ireland? The proposers are more likely to get burned out of their own houses.

That said, the ruling parties have brought this on by allowing landbanking and refusing to build adequate housing since the '09 crash. They need to sort that out asap, people are really pissed off about rents.

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Castlevania
On 15/03/2022 at 09:07, spunko said:

This is pretty much baked in now, the momentum is growing all the time, eventually it'll be illegal to have too many extra bedrooms or to live in a large house on your own. 

The problem is you end up with a situation like the window tax where people will simply knock two rooms into one.

 

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Castlevania
On 15/03/2022 at 09:56, Frank Hovis said:

 

I wouldn't say illegal; I would rather say expensive.

Council tax is steadily moving from the idea of paying for services that you use into a property tax than can be used to affect how property is used.

Now some of this I am cheering - the removal of second home discount and the ability in Wales to charge 400% of the council tax upon a second home.

However I know that the shift that I am cheering is going to come back and bite me; as if CT is now an explicit property tax then why would you have a single person discount?  That will go.

The easy win is then "mansion tax" - all CT starts as a set percentage of the home's value without a cap.

And with that done you are then potentially going down the same road as Housing Benefit, which paid the rent of the house you are in, turning into LHA which pays the rent of the house that you should be in by your household size.  If you have extra rooms meaning more rent then you are paying that yourself.

Map that back onto Council Tax and then the standard, lowest, Council Tax Rate in any band is only available for those homes where the household size matches the house size.  Under-occupancy will attract a premium on CT.

This is going to be a long slow process but to guess a timeline:

  • Punitive council tax allowed on second homes in England: 2025
  • "Mansion tax" / falt percentage tax comes in: 2030
  • Single occupant discount withdrawn: 2035
  • Premiums for under-occupancy: 2040

 

Overall though, unless ridiculous premums are applied, I don't actually see that as a bad thing even though it will cost me more.  You already need to be seriously wealthy in many areas to buy a big home so why shouldn't that come with additional tax liability?

Yep. Flat rate of 1% of the property value would be fair in my opinion.

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Frank Hovis
16 minutes ago, Castlevania said:

Yep. Flat rate of 1% of the property value would be fair in my opinion.

 

If you work out the current council tax take vs total property value in the UK it actually works out that half a precent of property values would bring in the same return.

And that's entirely fair; nobody is penalising those with big homes.

It is such an obvious way of replacing an unfair property tax system that it escapes me as to why it hasn't already happened.

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Castlevania
5 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

If you work out the current council tax take vs total property value in the UK it actually works out that half a precent of property values would bring in the same return.

And that's entirely fair; nobody is penalising those with big homes.

It is such an obvious way of replacing an unfair property tax system that it escapes me as to why it hasn't already happened.

Yes. My old approach was 0.5% with that doubled for second homes/landlords.

Now I just think there’s so much wealth tied up in housing 1% is the way to go. 

To add at 1% I’d expect weekly bin collection and generally speaking better local council services. 

Edited by Castlevania
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King Penda
On 14/03/2022 at 15:35, Frank Hovis said:

There was a recent series of short slots on R4 looking at future green issues.

All the usual we "must" do this type of language.

One if the programmes was on housing suggesting that we "must" match housing to household numbers and that it will become "socially unacceptable" to have more rooms than you "need".

"Fuck right off" was my response.

I did meantion a reverse bedroom tax on here years ago but who dare go after at least 500,000 pensioners liveing alone in 3 bed council houses ie family houses 

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