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The Big Fat Van thread


Uncle Buck Rogers

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Uncle Buck Rogers

Want an all-round utility vehicle (not van) that i can use for tip trips, moving furniture and as a camper.

Ideally a 1.4 petrol as the powers that be seem to be killing off diesels. Wouldnt really need the torque from one anyway.

However, i know that the 1.9 diesel from Fiat is meant to be bullet proof whereas im not so sure about thier petrol engines. Similarly, my old man used to have a 1.6 diesel Berlingo (why oh why did i not buy it from him) and that had no engine issues.

Sadly it seems the Desire Berlingo (one with sunroof and extra roof storage) does not come in petrol. Not after the Doblo camper as that is clearly visible as a camper to everyone and i'll be stealthing as much as one can.

Another benefit of the Berlingo/Partner is that the WAV conversions do not generally mean a loss of seating whereas the Doblos usually lose all but one in the rear.

I find both cars to be beautiful in thier utilitarian uglyness.

Meant to add, looking for pre 2010 models. The newer Doblo is just ugly as fuck with no redeeming features. Really, too ugly even for my liking.

Edited by Uncle Buck Rogers
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belfastchild
2 hours ago, Uncle Buck Rogers said:

Similarly, my old man used to have a 1.6 diesel Berlingo (why oh why did i not buy it from him) and that had no engine issues.

You need to know they have been looked after. Regular oil change, proper oil, injector tightness checked at every service (citroen didnt recognise this for years then never admitted it, just added to the service schedule).
Looked at one of the newer doblo campers last year, could get one on fleet purchase for a song, my mechanic told me to stick to my 15 year old berlingo!

Never did buy the bootjump but bought all the stuff to make one, just havent got round to it. I have a full size camper but just for quick day or so trips, throw the boot jump in, sleeping bag etc etc.

2 hours ago, Uncle Buck Rogers said:

I find both cars to be beautiful in thier utilitarian uglyness.

Wholeheartedly agree, Ive slept in mine, carried bricks, paving slabs, all sort of furniture, travelled the length and breadth of uk/ireland. I have a good looking quick car for those times but just for sheer travelling about the place with a load of stuff in the boot, you cant beat them. Van internals/parts so relatively cheap to maintain and should give a min of 250k mileage on the engines if looked after.
Bin lorry cracked my wing mirror last year (couldnt prove it was them), 15 quid off ebay for the whole assembly used.

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Uncle Buck Rogers
10 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Watching as this overlaps with what I'm interested in; though I won't steer the thread away from your wishlist.

No, all contibutions, steering welcome. I was aware a few other posters were Berlingo fans so any contribution is welcome, even for suggestions that arent either of the above. (apart from Kangoo's, just something about them....)

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Frank Hovis
1 minute ago, Uncle Buck Rogers said:

No, all contibutions, steering welcome. I was aware a few other posters were Berlingo fans so any contribution is welcome, even for suggestions that arent either of the above. (apart from Kangoo's, just something about them....)

 

I want similar, I don't want new because of the smaller engines but as my current car is 2009 I want to go newer with 2014/15 looking like the sweet spot for me.  I lean to diesel but would be fine with a petrol.

I have been totally avoiding those with wheechair ramps as being too much work to take that out.

I would convert to a very basic day camper but retain the single second row seat and the option of refitting the others along the lines of this where he converts a smaller vehicle, Citroen Picasso, for £120 of wood and paint.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w7Idm1cdR8&ab_channel=WiltshireMan

 

I find them pricey for what they are and per the second handcar prices thread this is down to interrupted new supply which has lifted used car prices by roughly 50% depending upon model.  It will take three to four years for them to come back down to pre-pandemic levels.  I don't want to wait that long but waiting until next year seems a good idea.

Total_global_light_vehicle_unit_sales.pn

https://think.ing.com/articles/car-market-outlook-recovery-to-resume-in-2022/

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belfastchild
1 minute ago, Frank Hovis said:

I find them pricey for what they are and per the second handcar prices thread this is down to interrupted new supply which has lifted used car prices by roughly 50% depending upon model.

The book value for mine is over 3x what it was 2 years ago.
Its the mini camper phenomenon as well with uk based holidays the last 2 years.
I bought the tailgate tent for mine 80 odd quid from china, havent used it yet. Often just sit in mine with the top tailgate open when fishing off piers etc. Built in seat and shelter!
Have a 12v shower pump and solar shower, previously handy with flysheet over the tailgate for changing out of wetsuit and getting quick shower etc when not using the big camper.

Also handy for getting and reselling bulky items on fb marketplace etc that wont fit in a normal car, specially if you dont care about the bumps and knocks.

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Frank Hovis
Just now, belfastchild said:

The book value for mine is over 3x what it was 2 years ago.
Its the mini camper phenomenon as well with uk based holidays the last 2 years.
I bought the tailgate tent for mine 80 odd quid from china, havent used it yet. Often just sit in mine with the top tailgate open when fishing off piers etc. Built in seat and shelter!
Have a 12v shower pump and solar shower, previously handy with flysheet over the tailgate for changing out of wetsuit and getting quick shower etc when not using the big camper.

Also handy for getting and reselling bulky items on fb marketplace etc that wont fit in a normal car, specially if you dont care about the bumps and knocks.

 

That's similar to my intended use.

Though that pricing reinforces my view that it's a great time to sell but a terrible time to buy!

 

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belfastchild
3 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

That's similar to my intended use.

Though that pricing reinforces my view that it's a great time to sell but a terrible time to buy!

 

Give it a few months ;-) Saw another inflatable hot tub new in a box for 250 quid this morning.
It will depend if people bought them and got the use out of them. I wouldnt part with mine for any money.

Picked up an internet date in it once, she looked at it and said 'Is this your car?' in a scornful tone.
'Yes, one of them, this has plenty of room for shagging in the back'
Yes is the answer to the question.

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Uncle Buck Rogers

I agree that prices are stupid at present, but i forever find reasons to not do or buy something and without wanted to sound like a "One life, live it" type, i could die tomorrow.

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Frank Hovis
8 minutes ago, Uncle Buck Rogers said:

I agree that prices are stupid at present, but i forever find reasons to not do or buy something and without wanted to sound like a "One life, live it" type, i could die tomorrow.

 

I agree though at present I have a (touch wood) bullet proof 2 litre diesel VW Hatch which through age, 2009, and mileage would fetch me maybe £800.

A 2012 Berlingo with 95k miles on it is £4.5k.

That's ten years old and they're not so mechanically brilliant that that isn't going to come with regular bills.

Pre Covid that would have been £3k which I would go for. Or rather pay £4.5k for a 2014.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202202212799311?advertising-location=at_cars&year-from=2012&maximum-mileage=100000&price-to=4500&postcode=W12 8qt&model=Berlingo&page=1&make=Citroen&fuel-type=Diesel&include-delivery-option=on&sort=relevance&percentVehiclePriceDeposit=true

 

I may weaken in a month or so; it's not like £4.5k is going to break the bank.

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ashestoashes
34 minutes ago, Uncle Buck Rogers said:

I agree that prices are stupid at present, but i forever find reasons to not do or buy something and without wanted to sound like a "One life, live it" type, i could die tomorrow.

with problems producing new cars where is your better value car going to come from ?

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Chewing Grass
Just now, ashestoashes said:

with problems producing new cars where is your better value car going to come from ?

China.

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Chewing Grass
18 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

 

I agree though at present I have a (touch wood) bullet proof 2 litre diesel VW Hatch which through age, 2009, and mileage would fetch me maybe £800.

A 2012 Berlingo with 95k miles on it is £4.5k.

That's ten years old and they're not so mechanically brilliant that that isn't going to come with regular bills.

Pre Covid that would have been £3k which I would go for. Or rather pay £4.5k for a 2014.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202202212799311?advertising-location=at_cars&year-from=2012&maximum-mileage=100000&price-to=4500&postcode=W12 8qt&model=Berlingo&page=1&make=Citroen&fuel-type=Diesel&include-delivery-option=on&sort=relevance&percentVehiclePriceDeposit=true

 

I may weaken in a month or so; it's not like £4.5k is going to break the bank.

Biggest mistake people who buy 10 year old cars make is driving them like new ones and disregarding scheduled maintenance items.

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2 hours ago, Chewing Grass said:

Biggest mistake people who buy 10 year old cars make is driving them like new ones and disregarding scheduled maintenance items.

I've seen a few at the local cheap end auction, 120k to 140K miler examples had some engine problems,  So for any particular engine type worth checking up on known issues as anything in the older age range is going to be creeping up on those mileages.  Hugely versatile format which is why they are popular, just don't overpay for that and buy a lemon.

Think examples above were all petrol.

Edited by onlyme
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Didn't want to change the course of the existing thread but I have been looking at getting a small van for a while to reduce motoring costs. I've been told that if you have your van signwritten then you can deduct a percentage off every month via your accountant i.e. claim it back from HMRC.

Does anyone know if this is true?

And does anyone know what the usage rules are on commercial vehicles like vans for private/domestic usage? I don't even mind just paying for the diesel myself if it averages 50mpg rather than 25mpg which I am getting now from my regular car.

I think my main issue will be convincing the accountant that it's going to have some business use, which will be extremely minimal to none, unless I tell a few white lies.

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Joncrete Cungle

You are starting up a sideline / hustle taking things to the tip for people, collecting large purchases / assisting with house moves / parcel deliveries etc ;) This enterprise may never make a profit...

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AlfredTheLittle

If you work through a company, there's no issue with the company buying the van and providing it to you. The business use for the company is simply to provide the van to you as an employee or director, an expense to keep an employee happy is perfectly legitimate.

So the company could reclaim vat on the van and also get tax relief on the purchase.

You would have a taxable benefit, being a van for your personal use. You'd pay tax on the benefit. The van benefit charge is £3,600 and if fuel is paid by the company there's an additional benefit of £688. You pay tax on these amounts, so 40% if you're at higher rate. The company pays ni on the amounts at 13.8%.

https://www.cipp.org.uk/resources/news/van-benefit-and-fuel-benefit-charges-2022-23.html

 

So if a van costs £20k plus vat , the company reclaims £4k vat and gets £4k tax relief (approx 20% corporation tax)

You then pay about £1,500 tax (40% of 3,600) and the company pays around £500 ni each year. So it would take about 4 years to repay the £8k tax relief you get initially through the company buying the van. But really the van would have cost you a lot more than £24k if you buy it out of post tax money.

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Dave Beans
15 minutes ago, spunko said:

Didn't want to change the course of the existing thread but I have been looking at getting a small van for a while to reduce motoring costs. I've been told that if you have your van signwritten then you can deduct a percentage off every month via your accountant i.e. claim it back from HMRC.

Does anyone know if this is true?

And does anyone know what the usage rules are on commercial vehicles like vans for private/domestic usage? I don't even mind just paying for the diesel myself if it averages 50mpg rather than 25mpg which I am getting now from my regular car.

I think my main issue will be convincing the accountant that it's going to have some business use, which will be extremely minimal to none, unless I tell a few white lies.

Is it for carriage of own goods or for haulage?  A lot of insurers wont insure you for third party haulage.

You can insure it with SD&P with business use.  The insurers then ask you the split the mileage between the two.  You could put the fuel receipts, etc with that split...

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5 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

Is it for carriage of own goods or for haulage?  A lot of insurers wont insure you for third party haulage.

You can insure it with SD&P with business use.  The insurers then ask you the split the mileage between the two.  You could put the fuel receipts, etc with that split...

There isn't really any mileage for business use now that you can't claim back using it for commuting to/from work. I wouldn't use it for business purposes really, I'd just use it for tip runs and carrying stuff around / driving to see family. My car is uneconomical so I am looking at a van through the business as it's cheaper i.e. can claim back VAT at the very least - I think..

Just want to claim for the absolute minimum possible so that I can actually get a van. When I approached my accountant about it a few years ago he said it's not possible, but I'm nowadays more happy to tell a few white lies.

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16 minutes ago, AlfredTheLittle said:

If you work through a company, there's no issue with the company buying the van and providing it to you. The business use for the company is simply to provide the van to you as an employee or director, an expense to keep an employee happy is perfectly legitimate.

So the company could reclaim vat on the van and also get tax relief on the purchase.

You would have a taxable benefit, being a van for your personal use. You'd pay tax on the benefit. The van benefit charge is £3,600 and if fuel is paid by the company there's an additional benefit of £688. You pay tax on these amounts, so 40% if you're at higher rate. The company pays ni on the amounts at 13.8%.

https://www.cipp.org.uk/resources/news/van-benefit-and-fuel-benefit-charges-2022-23.html

 

So if a van costs £20k plus vat , the company reclaims £4k vat and gets £4k tax relief (approx 20% corporation tax)

You then pay about £1,500 tax (40% of 3,600) and the company pays around £500 ni each year. So it would take about 4 years to repay the £8k tax relief you get initially through the company buying the van. But really the van would have cost you a lot more than £24k if you buy it out of post tax money.

Thanks, interesting. It looks like fully electric vans are exempt from the van benefit charge. https://arthurboyd.co.uk/electric-company-vans-and-the-benefit-in-kind-charge/

I don't particularly want an electric van though.

So if I'm understanding correctly, it is only worth doing from a personal rather than from a business viewpoint, if I can save more than £1,500 a year by doing so. Sadly, I don't think I would save even half that.

(i.e. not including any perks to the business, such as reducing corp. tax bills).

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Dave Beans
5 minutes ago, spunko said:

There isn't really any mileage for business use now that you can't claim back using it for commuting to/from work. I wouldn't use it for business purposes really, I'd just use it for tip runs and carrying stuff around / driving to see family. My car is uneconomical so I am looking at a van through the business as it's cheaper i.e. can claim back VAT at the very least - I think..

Just want to claim for the absolute minimum possible so that I can actually get a van. When I approached my accountant about it a few years ago he said it's not possible, but I'm nowadays more happy to tell a few white lies.

For practicality - are you looking to take passengers?  They are limited for seating, unless you get a combi style van - that, or look at pick ups.  A bit more practical, and they are much more car like to drive.  Rules are also  tightening around emissions, with clean air zones springing about the place.  Vans that are Euro 6 are exempt from charges for the time being (so I understand it)..

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AlfredTheLittle
1 hour ago, spunko said:

Thanks, interesting. It looks like fully electric vans are exempt from the van benefit charge. https://arthurboyd.co.uk/electric-company-vans-and-the-benefit-in-kind-charge/

I don't particularly want an electric van though.

So if I'm understanding correctly, it is only worth doing from a personal rather than from a business viewpoint, if I can save more than £1,500 a year by doing so. Sadly, I don't think I would save even half that.

(i.e. not including any perks to the business, such as reducing corp. tax bills).

I think it's more worthwhile the more expensive the van is, because the benefit charge is the same regardless of the cost of the van. If you're planning to get a fairly cheap van it's probably not worth getting it through the company.

I should say that I'm not 100% certain that everything I've written is correct. I work in tax and someone asked me about vans recently, and when I thought it through what I've written here is what I came up with, but they never went ahead and I didn't research any further.

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1 hour ago, AlfredTheLittle said:

If you work through a company, there's no issue with the company buying the van and providing it to you. The business use for the company is simply to provide the van to you as an employee or director, an expense to keep an employee happy is perfectly legitimate.

So the company could reclaim vat on the van and also get tax relief on the purchase.

You would have a taxable benefit, being a van for your personal use. You'd pay tax on the benefit. The van benefit charge is £3,600 and if fuel is paid by the company there's an additional benefit of £688. You pay tax on these amounts, so 40% if you're at higher rate. The company pays ni on the amounts at 13.8%.

https://www.cipp.org.uk/resources/news/van-benefit-and-fuel-benefit-charges-2022-23.html

 

So if a van costs £20k plus vat , the company reclaims £4k vat and gets £4k tax relief (approx 20% corporation tax)

You then pay about £1,500 tax (40% of 3,600) and the company pays around £500 ni each year. So it would take about 4 years to repay the £8k tax relief you get initially through the company buying the van. But really the van would have cost you a lot more than £24k if you buy it out of post tax money.

Get an electric Van and the BIK will be just 2% of the vans new value, and zero bik on the company paying for all "fuel" 

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Bear Hug

Does anyone know if front seat of Nemo Multispace folds flat? If I could fit a mountain bike in it without taking wheels off, it would be perfect. 

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202204054340196?advertising-location=at_cars&price-to=35000&postcode=po376es&model=Nemo Multispace&page=1&price-from=500&make=Citroen&include-delivery-option=on&sort=relevance

 

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