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Kitchen Electrics


man o' the year

Question

man o' the year

I am fitting a new kitchen and this necessitates extending electrical sockets which are on a ring main.

I am struggling to find best way to join ring main wires to extend. They will need to be 30A, contained in a box and fit in the wall behind the kitchen units.

I have looked at WAGO and DEBOX but each has its own problems. I have also looked at 6 terminal  junction box but they are only rated 20A.

Wago would seem good but the box enclosure is double thickness so is very bulky to sink into wall.

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25 answers to this question

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Fit a new circuit with it's own fusebox. Make sure the cooker spur is 40 Amps in case somebody wants an electric cooker. This is what I had fitted.

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Bobthebuilder
6 minutes ago, MrPin said:

Fit a new circuit with it's own fusebox. Make sure the cooker spur is 40 Amps in case somebody wants an electric cooker. This is what I had fitted.

I think fitting a new kitchen kicks in a requirement to a wiring update to include a new RCD fusebox, Electrical building regs with new kitchen installation, been like that for years I believe.

@haroldshandis your man.

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Sasquatch

You can always use a bit of gaffer tape and twist the wires together. The previous house owner at our place was clearly happy with this technique!

1333415775_dodgywiring.JPG

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12 hours ago, Panther said:

Crimps covered with heatshrink?

Yes I think that's ok but would like a confirmation from @haroldshand

I have an old consumer unit that is very close to the ceiling and if it is to be replaced the cables will need to be extended. I first thought that single core was a no no for crimping but all the online forums say it's ok. 

 

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haroldshand
37 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

Yes I think that's ok but would like a confirmation from @haroldshand

I have an old consumer unit that is very close to the ceiling and if it is to be replaced the cables will need to be extended. I first thought that single core was a no no for crimping but all the online forums say it's ok. 

 

No, nothing so complicated :).

Just strip the cables back and re terminate them neatly and put in choc blocks and then into a connector box, takes minutes and nice and neat

connect box.jpg

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The XYY Man
15 hours ago, haroldshand said:

No, nothing so complicated :).

Just strip the cables back and re terminate them neatly and put in choc blocks and then into a connector box, takes minutes and nice and neat

connect box.jpg

In that example you have kept the two lives separate, but have commoned the two earths and the two neutrals. That additional circuit is not a true ring main. Six terminal connectors are the only way to extend a ring main correctly.

In effect, you have created a glorified spur, and having the two separate lives serves no real purpose.

 

XYY

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haroldshand
Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, The XYY Man said:

In that example you have kept the two lives separate, but have commoned the two earths and the two neutrals. That additional circuit is not a true ring main. Six terminal connectors are the only way to extend a ring main correctly.

In effect, you have created a glorified spur, and having the two separate lives serves no real purpose.

 

XYY

Stop being pendantic :)

I wasn't trying to show him a wiring system or method and that's not what he was asking, I have showed him how to tidy up cables and it's irrelevant going into ring mains, radials, spurs, switch lives, permanent lives or whatever because that's not what he is after

 

P.S    and who even mentioned "ring mains", looking at the picture now and  there is a number of circuits where it is perfectly OK

Edited by haroldshand
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nirvana
4 hours ago, The XYY Man said:

In effect, you have created a glorified spur,

ring mains are for puffs!!!

in fact they're illegal in Frogland, good! Good riddance to shite electrics :P

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The XYY Man
6 hours ago, haroldshand said:

Stop being pendantic :)

P.S    and who even mentioned "ring mains", looking at the picture now and  there is a number of circuits where it is perfectly OK

 

Er, at the risk of being "pedantic", the original poster said it was a ring main in his very first post - which is quoted below.

 

On 11/05/2022 at 10:25, man o' the year said:

I am fitting a new kitchen and this necessitates extending electrical sockets which are on a ring main.

 

He appears to be someone trying to do the job by himself on the cheap - rather than getting someone in who knows what they are doing - and more importantly he's asking people on here to show him how to do it.

If he copies your method exactly as shown, and his new kitchen goes up in flames, then you could potentially be held liable for that.

I am sorry that you see my previous post as pedantry, when in reality I am actually trying to help you avoid getting the blame for Billy Bodger's solicitor claiming that you gave him instructions on how to perform this illegal wiring extension.

 

XYY

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nirvana

Bro! leccy has come a long way since 1878.....

did u do woodwork too? I remember some of the classmates used that time to make some new friends xD

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Harley
Posted (edited)
On 11/05/2022 at 14:01, Bobthebuilder said:

I think fitting a new kitchen kicks in a requirement to a wiring update to include a new RCD fusebox, Electrical building regs with new kitchen installation, been like that for years I believe.

@haroldshandis your man.

Plus kitchens only by a "competent person" regardless of the work?

Edited by Harley
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Harley
Posted (edited)
On 14/05/2022 at 19:08, haroldshand said:

No, nothing so complicated :).

Just strip the cables back and re terminate them neatly and put in choc blocks and then into a connector box, takes minutes and nice and neat

connect box.jpg

Do they have the amp rating?  The ones I see don't.  I've used Wago rated up to 32A and for the wire size to extend sockets when installing some insulated plasterboard.  Not that I was 100% comfortable with the connection (but checked and tested of course).

Edited by Harley
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onlyme
9 hours ago, Harley said:

Do they have the amp rating?  The ones I see don't.  I've used Wago rated up to 32A and for the wire size to extend sockets when installing some insulated plasterboard.  Not that I was 100% comfortable with the connection (but checked and tested of course).

Chock strip is rated by size. This whole area of what is  "permanent" connection and what does and doesn't need to be accessible for inspection and test is another really fuzzy element of the regs, thanks to the regs in many areas being an overcomplicated mess of conflicting advice which says away from the practical installation methods and actual manufacturer components available with the overall rider of go by the manufacturer's instructions first. Electrician I know uses crimps but with self amalgamating tape, but you need to use a good pair of crimps to get a decent connection without mashing the connectors.

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haroldshand
12 hours ago, The XYY Man said:

 

Er, at the risk of being "pedantic", the original poster said it was a ring main in his very first post - which is quoted below.

 

 

He appears to be someone trying to do the job by himself on the cheap - rather than getting someone in who knows what they are doing - and more importantly he's asking people on here to show him how to do it.

If he copies your method exactly as shown, and his new kitchen goes up in flames, then you could potentially be held liable for that.

I am sorry that you see my previous post as pedantry, when in reality I am actually trying to help you avoid getting the blame for Billy Bodger's solicitor claiming that you gave him instructions on how to perform this illegal wiring extension.

 

XYY

Now you are being a drama queen. 

I have not even been following the thread and was tagged by Bilbo with a question and politely answered "HIS"  query and moved on to what I was doing before.

For the record if he was/is doing his own house  wiring it will have to be certified by building  controls so anything he "has done wrong" will be picked up on of the main tests in the 5 page report "the ring main continuity", and if he was Part P registered he would certify it himself and he wouldn't need to be asking any of these questions

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The XYY Man
On 15/05/2022 at 12:09, haroldshand said:

P.S    and who even mentioned "ring mains", looking at the picture now and  there is a number of circuits where it is perfectly OK

Please explain the purpose/application of an electrical wiring installation where you would tie earth and neutral together but have two separate live feeds.

 

XYY

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The XYY Man
On 16/05/2022 at 07:26, haroldshand said:

For the record if he was/is doing his own house  wiring it will have to be certified by building  controls so anything he "has done wrong" will be picked up on of the main tests in the 5 page report "the ring main continuity", and if he was Part P registered he would certify it himself and he wouldn't need to be asking any of these questions

The ring main continuity test would pass, as your cowboy bodge would not affect the continuity of the circuit.

The only way that your cowboy bodge would ever be detected was if you removed the individual ring-main wires from the consumer unit (fuse box) and tested them for shorts between each of the live, neutral and earth pairs - which you are not required to do before signing off an installation. 

You are a fucking cowboy Shand, and a disgraceful example of a human being. 

 

XYY

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haroldshand
On 15/05/2022 at 21:05, Harley said:

Do they have the amp rating?  The ones I see don't.  I've used Wago rated up to 32A and for the wire size to extend sockets when installing some insulated plasterboard.  Not that I was 100% comfortable with the connection (but checked and tested of course).

You only get them in 16 amp and 32 amp, I am sure there are 45 amp out there but I rarely use them. End of the day terminations just need mechanical  protection/barriers.

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nirvana
10 hours ago, The XYY Man said:

You are a fucking cowboy Shand, and a disgraceful example of a human being. 

bit harsh bro! And he's not called Shand....it's harolds hand lol

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On 17/05/2022 at 23:01, The XYY Man said:

The ring main continuity test would pass, as your cowboy bodge would not affect the continuity of the circuit.

The only way that your cowboy bodge would ever be detected was if you removed the individual ring-main wires from the consumer unit (fuse box) and tested them for shorts between each of the live, neutral and earth pairs - which you are not required to do before signing off an installation. 

You are a fucking cowboy Shand, and a disgraceful example of a human being. 

 

XYY

Well I know enough this morning and 30 plus years of mornings before that to be getting up at 5 am to start a days work to run a business while you have probably yet again passed out on cheap corner shop cider in the last few hours you alcoholic waster.

I really tried to avoid embarrassing you  as you dig your self inflicted hole, but showing a Part 1 C&G EI&M is like trying to impressing and convince people that you are an Olympic Swimming coach because you got your 25 meters primary school dash as a kid, bet you don't even have your Part 2 to go with it?, which I do have by the way from decades  ago  and wouldn't shame myself to present it in 2022 as proof of my ability to work in todays market.

You really need to stop searching out and making up conflict with the world which is my bet why you don't get on or connect with people at work, and then from your grubby keyboard try a tell those working and contributing how it should be done.

 

P.S  Sorry to the opening post to this thread, I really tried to not play a part in hijacking this thread and ignore this wanker that has ruined dozens of other  threads in the same way, but said my bit now:).. I wasn't even following this thread and was tagged a question about tidying up terminations and I stick by my simple answer, a few others gave you options as well so it seems I never misunderstood the question either, this waster knew that though anyway.

Edited by haroldshand
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bit harsh again bro!

I see mention of 40a/30a/20a in this thread......wot da fuk r we trying to do here bros? run a small factory??!!

save the planet boys n girls! cook on gas too! AND peace n love whilst we're at it too....

Chillax everyone and have a super duper day :D

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18 hours ago, haroldshand said:

Well I know enough this morning and 30 plus years of mornings before that to be getting up at 5 am to start a days work to run a business while you have probably yet again passed out on cheap corner shop cider in the last few hours you alcoholic waster.

I really tried to avoid embarrassing you  as you dig your self inflicted hole, but showing a Part 1 C&G EI&M is like trying to impressing and convince people that you are an Olympic Swimming coach because you got your 25 meters primary school dash as a kid, bet you don't even have your Part 2 to go with it?, which I do have by the way from decades  ago  and wouldn't shame myself to present it in 2022 as proof of my ability to work in todays market.

You really need to stop searching out and making up conflict with the world which is my bet why you don't get on or connect with people at work, and then from your grubby keyboard try a tell those working and contributing how it should be done.

 

P.S  Sorry to the opening post to this thread, I really tried to not play a part in hijacking this thread and ignore this wanker that has ruined dozens of other  threads in the same way, but said my bit now:).. I wasn't even following this thread and was tagged a question about tidying up terminations and I stick by my simple answer, a few others gave you options as well so it seems I never misunderstood the question either, this waster knew that though anyway.

Wow! What an incredibly insecure person you are 'Arold.

Not surprising mind, given that you clearly don't know your ring-mains from your ring-piece.

 

XYY

 

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