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Malthus

The worried well

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When I was really ill some years back, ad regularly visiting my GP, always at the back of my mind was a fear that my doctor would consider me a hypochondriac.

I would point out that there have been numerous cases of people who despite seeing doctors regularly, were not diagnosed despite displaying symptoms and who have later died.

It's a very difficult one and something that good doctors have to wrestle with all the time I guess. Sadly, there are also a lot of rubbish, lazy or just thick doctors out there.

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"Northern Ireland's contribution to this global crisis is clearly significant and we must drive this down."

Nice to see Northern Ireland is exporting something; in this case the acceleration of the eventual demise of mankind.

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I have two friends, a lovely couple who have a great relationship and clearly love each other.

I view them as true friends, we help each other out often.

There’s hardly a week goes by though where they don’t have a doctors, hospital or physiotherapist appointment. One had a heart attack about ten years ago but apart from that neither has any major health problem.

They both have huge pill packs with loads of pills enclosed in each blister for morning, lunch, teatime and evening. Scotland though so no payment required for prescriptions!

They’re always getting checks for this, that and anything at all on offer.

Personally I don’t trust doctors or the nhs. I’ve always tried to eat well, never been obese and take nothing on offer from the nhs. No cancer checks even.

I don’t worry about illness although I do have niggly and long term things.

Nothing would convince me to take both my friend’s daily pill cocktail.

 

 

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The NHS is an odd beast.

Despite protestations, we seem to spend about the same on national healthcare as other European/developed countries.

Yet it appears to be at breaking point constantly.  I worked in a Greek hospital (before 2008), and that seemed to be relatively well funded (although by no means a panacea.  Not everyone got service, and there wasn't money for some treatments.  It is probably telling that I had private healthcare when I worked there...)

I have this suspicion that nationalised heath-care goes through a cycle, starting with everyone respecting it, because it is so much better than what was available before, goes through a sort of renaissance, where it becomes all-things-to-all-people, and then, finally, becomes something to take for granted (and to take advantage of).  I think we're possibly at the taking-advantage-of stage, whereas other European countries are at the respect or all-things stage.  It is the only explanation I can think of for our dire situation.

Unfortunately, the next stage is likely to be commercial healthcare for everyone.  I imagine that this will suit well people more than ill people.

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15 minutes ago, dgul said:

The NHS is an odd beast.

Despite protestations, we seem to spend about the same on national healthcare as other European/developed countries.

Yet it appears to be at breaking point constantly.  I worked in a Greek hospital (before 2008), and that seemed to be relatively well funded (although by no means a panacea.  Not everyone got service, and there wasn't money for some treatments.  It is probably telling that I had private healthcare when I worked there...)

I have this suspicion that nationalised heath-care goes through a cycle, starting with everyone respecting it, because it is so much better than what was available before, goes through a sort of renaissance, where it becomes all-things-to-all-people, and then, finally, becomes something to take for granted (and to take advantage of).  I think we're possibly at the taking-advantage-of stage, whereas other European countries are at the respect or all-things stage.  It is the only explanation I can think of for our dire situation.

Unfortunately, the next stage is likely to be commercial healthcare for everyone.  I imagine that this will suit well people more than ill people.

I've thought for a long time that it could just be the case that, regardless how much money you paid, there simply are not enough competent and talented people to provide the level of healthcare people aspire to receiving to the whole country.

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1 minute ago, SNACR said:

I've thought for a long time that it could just be the case that, regardless how much money you paid, there simply are not enough competent and talented people to provide the level of healthcare people aspire to receiving to the whole country.

Well, yes, but it depends on expectations.

In the early years, expectations are low, therefore it always surpasses.

Then aspirations grow and expectations meet delivery.

Eventually, expectations surpass what is received, and you're in trouble.

The difficulty is that it is impossible to reign in expectations.  

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42 minutes ago, SNACR said:

I've thought for a long time that it could just be the case that, regardless how much money you paid, there simply are not enough competent and talented people to provide the level of healthcare people aspire to receiving to the whole country.

In fact having loads of money shortens your life span , Michael Jackson was able to get his personnel Doc give him enough drugs to kill him and I’m sure Prince had a quack or two on the payroll 

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1 hour ago, Economic Exile said:

I have two friends, a lovely couple who have a great relationship and clearly love each other.

I view them as true friends, we help each other out often.

There’s hardly a week goes by though where they don’t have a doctors, hospital or physiotherapist appointment. One had a heart attack about ten years ago but apart from that neither has any major health problem.

They both have huge pill packs with loads of pills enclosed in each blister for morning, lunch, teatime and evening. Scotland though so no payment required for prescriptions!

They’re always getting checks for this, that and anything at all on offer.

Personally I don’t trust doctors or the nhs. I’ve always tried to eat well, never been obese and take nothing on offer from the nhs. No cancer checks even.

I don’t worry about illness although I do have niggly and long term things.

Nothing would convince me to take both my friend’s daily pill cocktail.

Eat healthy, exercise and try as hard as you can to stay off the meds and away from the quacks.

I haven't met many doctors over the years who seemed any healthier than the average pleb out there. In fact they're often less healthy. I know a young very dedicated doctor, the type to pooh-pooh any idea that isn't 'science based' (e.g. certain dietary interventions), and by his own admission he eats loads of junkfood and is slowly on his way to obesity despite only being in his early 30's. I don't get how he has such a blind spot when it comes to taking care of himself yet is so dedicated to practicing medicine - I would have thought the two were linked.

 

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2 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

Eat healthy, exercise and try as hard as you can to stay off the meds and away from the quacks.

I haven't met many doctors over the years who seemed any healthier than the average pleb out there. In fact they're often less healthy. I know a young very dedicated doctor, the type to pooh-pooh any idea that isn't 'science based' (e.g. certain dietary interventions), and by his own admission he eats loads of junkfood and is slowly on his way to obesity despite only being in his early 30's. I don't get how he has such a blind spot when it comes to taking care of himself yet is so dedicated to practicing medicine - I would have thought the two were linked.

 

Totally agree with your first sentence.

Regarding your second paragraph, all the doctors I’ve encountered in my limited experience of consulting with them are that they are quacks.

One was a blatant alcoholic and when I sought advice on what to do about alcohol addiction he had nothing much to say except “It’s not good”. Thankfully I searched further afield. He’s dead and I’m still alive!

I feel that they’ve always positioned themselves above me, indoctrinated from their training and subservient to drug companies. 

The only time I feel that I’ve benefitted from a doctor is three times in my life when I’ve been prescribed an antibiotic.

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10 minutes ago, Economic Exile said:

The only time I feel that I’ve benefitted from a doctor is three times in my life when I’ve been prescribed an antibiotic.

Yep - that's  because doctors are good at treating things like infections or broken bones, or removing a kidney stone that's lodged in you....but they're terrible at curing the chronic diseases that most people are popping pills for. Once your start the pills your on them for life, even though there is solid evidence that lifestyle changes can reverse many of these diseases.

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25 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

Yep - that's  because doctors are good at treating things like infections or broken bones, or removing a kidney stone that's lodged in you....but they're terrible at curing the chronic diseases that most people are popping pills for. Once your start the pills your on them for life, even though there is solid evidence that lifestyle changes can reverse many of these diseases.

Agreed.

I have chosen for many years now not to attend invitations to cervical smears, breast screening and ignore the bowel cancer test received by post.

Many people have said I’m a fool.

I don’t think so.

My preference is to pay attention to my overall mind and body health. If I felt something was wrong that would be when I would look to doctors for tests and possible treatments.

For clarification on my life view I've came to the opinion that our bodies can get cancers but our body will deal with it if we eat well, reduce stress and foster a strong immune system.

Same with diabetes, stroke/heart attack risk. Eat decently (a matter of opinion) and excerise well etc and your risk is lowered.

So far, nearing 60,  I have no major health problems.

Who knows though? I’m well aware that tomorrow I could drop dead. Such is life!

 

 

 

Edited by Economic Exile

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9 minutes ago, Economic Exile said:

I have chosen for many years now not to attend invitations to cervical smears, breast screening and ignore the bowel cancer test received by post.

If you have 15 minutes to spare, watch this video...you don't need all of it... start at 10 minutes in. Please ignore the fact that he's a vegan doctor and everyone here hates vegans ;) Basically he states that the science shows that most bowel cancer screening does more harm than good.

 

Edited by JoeDavola

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4 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

If you have 15 minutes to spare, watch this video...you don't need all of it... start at 10 minutes in. Please ignore the fact that he's a vegan doctor and everyone here hates vegans ;) Basically he states that the science shows that most bowel cancer screening does more harm than good.

 

Totally agree with Dr Mc Dougall.

IMO cancer screening and treatment is an industry and a scam.

My view is that because I’m in tune with my body I’ll know if something is wrong. I have felt sometimes that things aren’t right but then I work out what I should do diet wise to improve my health.

To date I’ve always experienced health improvement from this approach.

I’m not a fool. If my health got out of hand I would seek tests but if I got e.g. a cancer diagnosis it would depend on where it was and how advanced then I would make a decision on whether to accept treatment or let nature take its course.

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Had one of those over 45 health checks a couple of years ago. A tick box exercise, I was pronounced unfit because I only do a couple of hours housework, gardening and DIY per week. That was how the metric worked, didn't think to ask me how fast or how high or how long I can go up a mountain. They said the word statins once and I must have made things very clear to them because it was never mentioned again. Same with the flu jab, no thanks

Edited by Panther

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15 hours ago, dgul said:

The NHS is an odd beast.

Despite protestations, we seem to spend about the same on national healthcare as other European/developed countries.

Yet it appears to be at breaking point constantly.  I worked in a Greek hospital (before 2008), and that seemed to be relatively well funded (although by no means a panacea.  Not everyone got service, and there wasn't money for some treatments.  It is probably telling that I had private healthcare when I worked there...)

I have this suspicion that nationalised heath-care goes through a cycle, starting with everyone respecting it, because it is so much better than what was available before, goes through a sort of renaissance, where it becomes all-things-to-all-people, and then, finally, becomes something to take for granted (and to take advantage of).  I think we're possibly at the taking-advantage-of stage, whereas other European countries are at the respect or all-things stage.  It is the only explanation I can think of for our dire situation.

Unfortunately, the next stage is likely to be commercial healthcare for everyone.  I imagine that this will suit well people more than ill people.

I think there`s a fair bit of truth in that ,but from where i`m sitting immigration is responsible for a fair bit of the strain and taking advantage of 

I have been to A&E and out patients about three times this year and the indigenous were the minority on all ocasions ..it`s only anecdotal and a small one  but it never was that way 

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On 21/10/2017 at 01:05, JoeDavola said:

If you have 15 minutes to spare, watch this video...you don't need all of it... start at 10 minutes in. Please ignore the fact that he's a vegan doctor and everyone here hates vegans ;) Basically he states that the science shows that most bowel cancer screening does more harm than good.

 

I don't think it's so much that I hate vegans, just that I find it hard to trust a vegan nutritionist to be objective.

I like Dr. McDougall, so much so that I sent one of his vids to a mate who was recently diagnosed with coronary heart disease but I'm still undecided if he's fully legit. For instance, in the above video, he suggests that colonoscopies are pointless because by the time a tumour is large enough to be detected, it will already have spread if malignant but doesn't mention pre-cancerous polyps.

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Apologies for the guardian link but the main Cornwall hospital, which has been poor for decades, was recently slammed for being spectacularly incompetent.

When the stories came out, as well as people dying and going blind because of delays in treatment, there were repeated stories where people came in with problems and were repeatedly, and wrongly, told to go home.

This resulted in the cases getting worse and worse but seemed to be the hospital's default position: "It's nothing, go home."

So rather than the incredibly patronising term "worried well" we have the actuality of "worried ill" and a hospital just pooh poohing them and pushing them out of the door again.

I expect this is widespread in order to meet "targets" and therefore the first opinion of any doctor should be disregarded if you actually know that you are unwell.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/05/royal-cornwall-hospital-special-measures-patient-deaths
 

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2 hours ago, MrPin said:

Any form of "targets" seems to make things go wrong. Let the doctors, teachers, etc, get on with it.

Of course. Targets are set.  There are draconian measures in place if you do not hit the target. The whole point of your job becomes hitting the targets. 

If there isn't a target for it, it doesn't happen. 

The most stupidest approach to managing public services but government seems wedded to it. 

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27 minutes ago, One percent said:

Of course. Targets are set.  There are draconian measures in place if you do not hit the target. The whole point of your job becomes hitting the targets. 

If there isn't a target for it, it doesn't happen. 

The most stupidest approach to managing public services but government seems wedded to it. 

Introduced by New Labour, totally fucked the NHS

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