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BTL selling up says independent


sarahbell

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UmBongo
10 hours ago, sarahbell said:

Who they selling to?

Quite a few are to be sold with sitting tenants. Not a flexible way to sell a property. They sit on the market for a bit longer. At least the tenants themselves are grateful of a reprieve.

One house up for sale near me is a student let. The tenancy is in place until the next academic year. 

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sarahbell
1 minute ago, UmBongo said:

Quite a few are to be sold with sitting tenants. Not a flexible way to sell a property. They sit on the market for a bit longer. At least the tenants themselves are grateful of a reprieve.

One house up for sale near me is a student let. The tenancy is in place until the next academic year. 

image.png.673e2fd07f87daf3d23d1e3310cb3385.png

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Axeman123
5 minutes ago, UmBongo said:

Quite a few are to be sold with sitting tenants

Surely any grot tennant would stop paying the old landlord, and demand hush money not to scare the buyer off. What is the landlord going to do, poison his own deal by making a fuss?

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Lightly Toasted
1 hour ago, sarahbell said:

image.png.673e2fd07f87daf3d23d1e3310cb3385.png

Presuming the "rental market" means the stock of homes available to rent, a sale with sitting tenants won't be added to that market -- the narrow "letting agent" view would then make it look as if the rental stock has shrunk.

OTOH the sitting tenants won't be out looking for a new place either, so rental supply/demand remains broadly unchanged.

This is the kind of thing a decent journalist/paper (both of which barely exist any more) would have dug into.

 

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Wight Flight
10 hours ago, Lightly Toasted said:

Presuming the "rental market" means the stock of homes available to rent, a sale with sitting tenants won't be added to that market -- the narrow "letting agent" view would then make it look as if the rental stock has shrunk.

OTOH the sitting tenants won't be out looking for a new place either, so rental supply/demand remains broadly unchanged.

This is the kind of thing a decent journalist/paper (both of which barely exist any more) would have dug into.

 

This isn't what is happening. I don't know who is buying the houses but it isn't the tenants.

It is really brutal out there.

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Pip321
20 hours ago, Lightly Toasted said:

Presuming the "rental market" means the stock of homes available to rent, a sale with sitting tenants won't be added to that market -- the narrow "letting agent" view would then make it look as if the rental stock has shrunk.

OTOH the sitting tenants won't be out looking for a new place either, so rental supply/demand remains broadly unchanged.

This is the kind of thing a decent journalist/paper (both of which barely exist any more) would have dug into.

 

You are right. Not letting a house doesn’t remove supply it changes to whom it is supplied. If bought house by a young owner occupier means one less tenant.

If 2 million homes have been bought by BTL’ers over the past decade then that is 2 million homes less available to owner occupiers. Landlords (well new types of BTL landlords) seem to think they are some benevolent charity and housing providers…..when in fact they create no new physical housing. (and yep, I include myself in that category but at least I don’t think I am some sort of Joseph Rowntree charitable organisation housing the poor.) 

Reality is in the short term there will be areas, pinch points and indeed evictions create high rental demand in the short term as things change…..hopefully a fall in house prices will help a generation who appear to have been screwed. 

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spygirl

Covid has massively disrupted the normal rental market.


There appears to be a large number of people in rentals, not paying.

Hardly surprising as the UKL PRS is made up of people on benefits and EUers, both of which know the chances of LL getting back dated rent back is zilch.

 

 

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sancho panza
2 hours ago, spygirl said:

Covid has massively disrupted the normal rental market.


There appears to be a large number of people in rentals, not paying.

Hardly surprising as the UKL PRS is made up of people on benefits and EUers, both of which know the chances of LL getting back dated rent back is zilch.

 

 

Glad I'm not a LL tbh.Sitting there unable to get your property back while someone destroys and doesn't pay rent.Treble bubble trouble when you get it back-legal costs,lost rent,damage

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spygirl
57 minutes ago, sancho panza said:

Glad I'm not a LL tbh.Sitting there unable to get your property back while someone destroys and doesn't pay rent.Treble bubble trouble when you get it back-legal costs,lost rent,damage

For a LL to sell a BTL they need to -

1) Remove the tenant. A tenant can, entirely lawfully, wait for a court eviction notice. This may take up to 24 months.

2) Sell the house.

The problem with 2) is that the areas where most IO BTL have been happening - IO BTL *were* the market from ~2002 to ~2016ish.

Its why youve got that Nottingham fuckwit coming out with - 

 

https://www.landlordzone.co.uk/news/leading-landlord-to-spend-500000-selling-his-40-unit-portfolio-as-tenanted-properties/

The regular LandlordZONE contributor has previously suggested paying his tenants’ deposit if they buy their home from him.

During an interview with The Telegraph newspaper, he says the average property in his portfolio is worth £130,000 so by paying their 5% deposit for each of the 40 houses it would cost him a total of £260,000 – but he’s had no takers for his offer so far.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61650382

Mick Roberts is another local landlord with more than thirty properties across Nottingham. His tenants are all on housing benefits, mostly families but many pensioners.

 

Theres nothing to stop him selling to his tenants.

However the property will be 20k tops.

 

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With a crooked smile
On 08/06/2022 at 11:44, sancho panza said:

Glad I'm not a LL tbh.Sitting there unable to get your property back while someone destroys and doesn't pay rent.Treble bubble trouble when you get it back-legal costs,lost rent,damage

I do think there is a parallel universe between this site where tenants get into a property and don't pay rent and the real world.

I've been renting out property since 06. The only time I've ever had someone not pay rent was during covid. Tenant spit with boyfriend and struggled to pay rent due to being in events business. 

We significantly reduced the rent for her but she still struggled to pay it. Eventually she left to go back to her parents. Everyone was OK with what happened as we'd all been in communication with each other. Overall the mortgage got paid and we got a new tenant who's been there ever since paying in time.

A friend of mine has only experienced voids during the 2010 period when the economy was in free fall  he had lots of Eastern Europeans coming and going jn his London properties .

There's so many people chasing so few properties at the moment that it's easy to select the ones in stable well paid jobs and get a big down payment.

We always go for people with a history of renting long term and a dog . Most people don't accept dogs so I find they are less likely to move.

I wouldn't belive much of the anecdotes on here from people who aren't actually in the game. It would be great if someone from a rental agency would come on and share their perspective as they will have a wide view of what's going on.

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Wight Flight
59 minutes ago, With a crooked smile said:

I do think there is a parallel universe between this site where tenants get into a property and don't pay rent and the real world.

I've been renting out property since 06. The only time I've ever had someone not pay rent was during covid. Tenant spit with boyfriend and struggled to pay rent due to being in events business. 

We significantly reduced the rent for her but she still struggled to pay it. Eventually she left to go back to her parents. Everyone was OK with what happened as we'd all been in communication with each other. Overall the mortgage got paid and we got a new tenant who's been there ever since paying in time.

A friend of mine has only experienced voids during the 2010 period when the economy was in free fall  he had lots of Eastern Europeans coming and going jn his London properties .

There's so many people chasing so few properties at the moment that it's easy to select the ones in stable well paid jobs and get a big down payment.

We always go for people with a history of renting long term and a dog . Most people don't accept dogs so I find they are less likely to move.

I wouldn't belive much of the anecdotes on here from people who aren't actually in the game. It would be great if someone from a rental agency would come on and share their perspective as they will have a wide view of what's going on.

Does this help?

https://www.landlordzone.co.uk/news/15-of-tenants-are-in-rent-arrears-but-a-third-are-trying-to-clear-their-debt/

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Axeman123
1 hour ago, With a crooked smile said:

I do think there is a parallel universe between this site where tenants get into a property and don't pay rent and the real world...

I am not in the game, but I do watch "nightmare tennants..." and bailiff reality TV shows. Obviously they are incentivised to seek extreme cases etc, but there genuinely are terrible people out there renting. You seem to be switched on and have the pick of prospective tennants, your properties are also probably nicer than the typical rental.

The flip side of the above will be hands-off yield-chasers with bottom shelf rentals. There is good and bad everywhere, but the system does genuinely seem to offer a lot of scope for scumbags to get one over.

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With a crooked smile
1 hour ago, Axeman123 said:

The flip side of the above will be hands-off yield-chasers with bottom shelf rentals. There is good and bad everywhere, but the system does genuinely seem to offer a lot of scope for scumbags to get one over.

True, I imagine the guys buying terraces in Burnley for 50ish k are probably dealing with a whole different type of tenant. I do know someone with over 100 low end properties in the Barnsley region but he always tries to get the council to pay him direct and doesn't look for rentals above the housing benefit level.

I would imagine 'nightmare tenants' tv is much like the whole new life in the country / in the sun type of thing - pedaling something that isn't really representing most people's lives.

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Two flats in my block of 18 are up for sale. Both have been reduced after a month on the market. Both have tenants who have been given notice and are meekly complying - one of them has been in the place for six months and a day (landlord invoked break clause).

When I suggested they simply sit on their hands and wait for an eviction notice, they didn't even know they could do it. They didn't know that they could postpone the eviction for six months if they'd reported any problems recently. They didn't even know that they could refuse a rent increase and would likely get no pushback. And they are landlords themselves. They are now planning to sell their own rentals in order to buy a place to live in - I wonder if there could be a domino effect here, particularly in the south east, where it's not uncommon for renters to also have rentals themselves.

The last time any of the flats were sold was 2016. And only 10 have changed hands since 2000. So for two to be up at the same time, both rentals, is unusual.

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With a crooked smile
On 11/06/2022 at 10:37, AWW said:

When I suggested they simply sit on their hands and wait for an eviction notice

And how do you think that will work out for them when they try and rent another property?

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Castlevania
9 minutes ago, With a crooked smile said:

And how do you think that will work out for them when they try and rent another property?

Fine. If a landlord asks for a reference from a previous landlord have a friend pretend to be them. Letting agents generally don’t check Anyhow.

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With a crooked smile
2 minutes ago, Castlevania said:

Fine. If a landlord asks for a reference from a previous landlord have a friend pretend to be them. Letting agents generally don’t check Anyhow.

You'd be surprised, it's becoming increasingly automated and digitised. I know someone who among other things scrapes social media to tenants backgrounds. His main market at the moment it housing associations because it gives scale easily. Bit he's already talking to the nationals.

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Castlevania
3 minutes ago, With a crooked smile said:

You'd be surprised, it's becoming increasingly automated and digitised. I know someone who among other things scrapes social media to tenants backgrounds. His main market at the moment it housing associations because it gives scale easily. Bit he's already talking to the nationals.

Ultimately if you as a previous landlord give a bad reference due to someone legally following the law and not making themselves homeless, you are setting yourself up for being sued.

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Axeman123
1 hour ago, Castlevania said:

Fine. If a landlord asks for a reference from a previous landlord have a friend pretend to be them. Letting agents generally don’t check Anyhow.

I know someone that has had several highly paid jobs a on similar basis regarding references. I wouldn't have believed it possible before.

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With a crooked smile
1 hour ago, Castlevania said:

Ultimately if you as a previous landlord give a bad reference due to someone legally following the law and not making themselves homeless, you are setting yourself up for being sued.

You can of course state facts. If someone has a ref that just states the dates they were a tenant I'd be a little suspect and more likely to go either someone else. Of course it's totally legal to state the tenancy ended when they were evicted if that's a fact.

And of course you can not respond to ref requests again I would wonder why this is happening.

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spygirl
On 11/06/2022 at 08:39, Wight Flight said:

We've had freakish pumped up economy since 2008.

There hasnt been a slowdown, red in tooth n nail. Or ratehr a normal IR cycle.

I knew of several LL who, if IR had not been lashed, would have gone bust in 2008.

 

 

 

 

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Sitting on your hands and waiting for the eviction notice is not great advice. Better advice is to start looking for a new place as soon as you get the section 21, but don't feel rushed with the 2 months notice warning, you've got at least 6 months to find something suitable. 

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