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As per title sediqu (spelling?)(my dad was a bus driver) Khan has written to May asking for 500 million for his scrappage scheme.  To be given to black cabs, white van man and 'the poor'. Fucker. On paper, we are not poor but run a 14 year old diesel.  Why should we, tax payers, AGAIN miss out on a government handout? Fecker. 

 

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To be honest this whole over reaction to diesels is a bit silly..  the new ones are just as clean as Petrol cars were just a few years ago,  plus much lower carbon footprint.

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6 minutes ago, One percent said:

Excellent. Bliar looks quite creepy in a couple of those shots. 

Brown looks like a complete beta judging from body language in those clips.  

More substantive proof that the one eyed snot gobbler shouldn't ever have made it as far as no. 10

6 minutes ago, Libspero said:

To be honest this whole over reaction to diesels is a bit silly..  the new ones are just as clean as Petrol cars were just a few years ago,  plus much lower carbon footprint.

Isn't it more to do with nitro particles? Genuine question as I've no idea. 

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Is Khan(mydadwasabusdriverdontyaknow) going to force people to get (nonexistent) petrol vans? I've already been forced to sell my old van and buy a more modern (worse) van due to the London LEZ. The obvious solution is never to go to Londistan again.

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15 minutes ago, Libspero said:

To be honest this whole over reaction to diesels is a bit silly..  the new ones are just as clean as Petrol cars were just a few years ago,  plus much lower carbon footprint.

Yes, it's all bollocks. We have a many cars driving around now as we do thanks to the powers that be trying every trick in the book to keep the plates spinning as fast a possible. If they are that concerned about CO2, particulates or any other gas and the environment take all taxes off every legitimate energy saving products out there, remove fixed taxes on cars, put it all on fuel, etc, etc. They won't.

 

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That is a very good question wvm.  The other alternative is electric. It should be easier for black cabbies to go electric as power points could be installed on all cab ranks. 

As a side issue I completed a survey on this last year and told them exactly what I thought of the matter. 

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Just now, onlyme said:

Yes, it's all bollocks. We have a many cars driving around now as we do thanks to the powers that be trying every trick in the book to keep the plates spinning as fast a possible. If they are that concerned about CO2, particulates or any other gas and the environment take all taxes off every legitimate energy saving products out there, remove fixed taxes on cars, put it all on fuel, etc, etc. They won't.

 

Yes, I don't understand why the food fund licence money isn't just added to the price of fuel. It has got to be a political decision.

i wonder how this charge will be collected off all those cars with foreign plate 

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2 hours ago, Thombleached said:

Isn't it more to do with nitro particles? Genuine question as I've no idea. 

As I understand it there are several things people are interested in,  mainly NOx,  Particulates and CO  (and if you are concerned about global warming then overall efficiency becomes important as well).

Under Euro 6 which is the current standard cars are produced to (since 2014) there are the following limits:

Pollutant                   Petrol               Diesel

CO                            1.0 gram           0.5 gram

NOx                           0.06 gram        0.08  gram

Particulates                6x10+11           6x10+11

 

I'm not sure how that formatting will work out..  but the main take-away is that they are tested to almost identical specifications now,  largely thanks to exhaust scrubbers (Ad-blu).

 

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46 minutes ago, Libspero said:

As I understand it there are several things people are interested in,  mainly NOx,  Particulates and CO  (and if you are concerned about global warming then overall efficiency becomes important as well).

Under Euro 6 which is the current standard cars are produced to (since 2014) there are the following limits:

Pollutant                   Petrol               Diesel

CO                            1.0 gram           0.5 gram

NOx                           0.06 gram        0.08  gram

Particulates                6x10+11           6x10+11

 

I'm not sure how that formatting will work out..  but the main take-away is that they are tested to almost identical specifications now,  largely thanks to exhaust scrubbers (Ad-blu).

 

https://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/publications/2015_09_Five_facts_about_diesel_FINAL.pdf

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1 hour ago, Libspero said:

As I understand it there are several things people are interested in,  mainly NOx,  Particulates and CO  (and if you are concerned about global warming then overall efficiency becomes important as well).

Under Euro 6 which is the current standard cars are produced to (since 2014) there are the following limits:

Pollutant                   Petrol               Diesel

CO                            1.0 gram           0.5 gram

NOx                           0.06 gram        0.08  gram

Particulates                6x10+11           6x10+11

 

I'm not sure how that formatting will work out..  but the main take-away is that they are tested to almost identical specifications now,  largely thanks to exhaust scrubbers (Ad-blu).

Well, I suppose the difference is that an injected catalysed petrol engine won't be far from those figures without any additional tech, and under most use-cases (even where the user mucks about with the engine like with a remap), while the diesel will require a lot of equipment to reach them (which might fail / get inefficient with age / get disconnected by an enthusiastic owner) and which might not actually work that well in real world situations.

IMO the government made a big mistake in promoting diesels around 2000.  And it wasn't as though they weren't informed -- there was plenty of press talking of the air quality (and other factors, such as particulate filter tech being unsuitable for many users) issues.  They just went for diesel as either they're all too stupid to see second order effects (ie, if I do x, what else might happen as a result), or they realise that most of the electorate didn't care about science stuff but did care very much about having the opportunity to pay no road tax. Anyway, they should have used the tax system to discourage smaller/low-mileage diesels, and only encourage larger/high-mileage diesels.  They should also have promoted LPG much more as an effective alternative.  

But we're here now, and the right thing to do would be to heavily promote electric.  

[and other solutions such as public transport, making cities more bicycle friendly, etc]

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6 hours ago, Libspero said:

As I understand it there are several things people are interested in,  mainly NOx,  Particulates and CO  (and if you are concerned about global warming then overall efficiency becomes important as well).

Under Euro 6 which is the current standard cars are produced to (since 2014) there are the following limits:

Pollutant                   Petrol               Diesel

CO                            1.0 gram           0.5 gram

NOx                           0.06 gram        0.08  gram

Particulates                6x10+11           6x10+11

 

I'm not sure how that formatting will work out..  but the main take-away is that they are tested to almost identical specifications now,  largely thanks to exhaust scrubbers (Ad-blu).

 

Interesting. So there's next to no difference on paper?

Listened to a show on the radio yesterday talking about what would have happened if ICE wasn't developed for another 20/30 years and what the infrastructure would look like now. 

They also talked about the stirling engine: fascinating and simple:

 

Im no engineer so another genuine but perhaps naive question. 

Is this how brakes regenerate energy in a modern car?

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11 hours ago, davidg said:

I don't disagree with your link,  the point being manufacturers have been designing vehicles to pass ridiculously ineffective government tests rather than the actual criteria. As the document points out this is easily remedied with properly configured exhaust scrubbers and proper on-road PEMS testing.

I'm not arguing that Diesels are saintly,  just that they can be as clean as petrol when designed properly and with the added benefit of being around 30% more efficient.

I think it would be wrong to demonise them completely just because failures in government testing have allowed manufacturers to bend the rules up until now. 

Otherwise I agree the thrust of the document is valid.

 

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AFAIK there isn't a Diesel scrappage scheme. Scrappage schemes are daft! It's just churn for the motor industry!

Also only people with quite a bit of wonga will make use of them. Most of us keep the old cars going until they break.

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4 minutes ago, MrPin said:

AFAIK there isn't a Diesel scrappage scheme. Scrappage schemes are daft! It's just churn for the motor industry!

Also only people with quite a bit of wonga will make use of them. Most of us keep the old cars going until they break.

My diesel is at that point so on a selfish level, I would welcome a scrappage scheme. Sadly, I'm not a cabbie, van driver or on benefits so sadly will not benefit. Barstewards. 

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33 minutes ago, One percent said:

My diesel is at that point so on a selfish level, I would welcome a scrappage scheme. Sadly, I'm not a cabbie, van driver or on benefits so sadly will not benefit. Barstewards. 

I think my diesel is worth about £3.5k so if they can hold off the scheme for another few years (given that £2k seems to be the mark) I would be grateful.

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6 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

I think my diesel is worth about £3.5k so if they can hold off the scheme for another few years (given that £2k seems to be the mark) I would be grateful.

Mines worth about £350 if lucky.  A rover 75 estate. Beautiful car, very nice to drive.  It's a bit like trying to park an aircraft carrier so I just drive round looking for a place to park. xD

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9 hours ago, Thombleached said:

 

Is this how brakes regenerate energy in a modern car?

Nothing so elaborate AFAIK..   I believe they just use the existing electric motors as dynamos to recover some of the energy.

 

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