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swiss_democracy_for_all

Population(official) to exceed 70m in 2030. Where is the infrastructure?

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The future of Europe is to be overpopulated and overpolluted like the whole of Asia/ME/South America

Except it won’t be Europeans doing the overpopulation

this is a good thing, since our economy will grow

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Just now, BigV said:

It's a total disaster and not confined to the UK. What's the world population now, 7 billion nearly? Up from 1b at the start of the last century

Having more than 2 children needs to become seriously expensive in developed countries, then there is the question of what to do in undeveloped ones. 

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6 minutes ago, swissy_fit said:

Will any of the UK be worth living in in 2030, if you're not a multimillionaire in an enclave with it's own infrastructure?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-41761292

Hell no.

If our airports are representative of the infrastructure that we currently have, then we're proper buggered.

The state of some of the transport up North is unreal. I got off some boneshaker of a train in Preston the other day and happened to glance down at the rails next to the platform. You couldn't see the sleepers, this is because they were solidly caked in human shit, bog roll the lot. The trains are so old, they are of the type that dumps raw, untreated shit directly on to the rails from their on board bogs, right in front of crowded platforms.

I mean come on...

 

 

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1 minute ago, Bakez said:

Build walls, zero aid

the problem will be solved in under 5 years

That may be true.

Hopefully Hungary, Poland and Czech will show the way forward and propel the dissolution of the EU.

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10 million in not much over a decade. 

Think of all the infrastructure that London has, hundreds of years and some of the greatest fears of engineering ever and despite all that the whole of greater London only officially has 8 million people living in it. We're adding more people than that and are hardly building anywhere to put them. And the majority are people who are going to sit on benefits and pump out kids that also sit on benefits while never integrating. 

It's got to be a deliberate ploy hasn't it?

I was reading how Canada has loads of immigrants, but they are almost all rich, middle class and highly educated. Why the fuck can't we do something similar?

Edited by xyz

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We were just driving through town and I was looking at the houses and thinking how old and scruffy the place looks in general (south of Manchester). A lot of the terraced housing here is ripe for knocking down and rebuilding (from an asthetic point of view at the very least), but that's never going to happen due to the cost and demand for housing / land. 

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The congestion on the roads is unreal

I would actually move back to the UK if the traffic was the same as it was 20 years ago.

When I started secondary school in 2001 it took about 20mins walk to the bus and 20mins on the bus, by the time I left in 2007 it was taking about 35mins on the bus I did the same journey again in 2016 and the bus took 50mins.

My dad's commute by car has tripled in the same time (he now leaves at 5:30am in the morning to get to work at 7am - used to leave at around 6:25).

The road I grew up on, where you could literally play ball games on the roundabouts with 1 car every few mins in the early 90s, now functions as a parking centre between the hours of 7-9 and 4-6 with people queuing to get on the main road

 

Edited by Bakez

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3 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

I disagree; the average number of children born to people who were themselves born in this country is already below the replacement rate so the odd big family is needed to keep up the average.

A simple halt on immigration will solve the population problem at a stroke for western countries.  Then it is up to the third world countries to sort out their own population problem.

We can help by refusing asylum or help to any country with a birthrate of more than 3 kids.

 

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2 minutes ago, BigV said:

We were just driving through town and I was looking at the houses and thinking how old and scruffy the place looks in general (south of Manchester). A lot of the terraced housing here is ripe for knocking down and rebuilding (from an asthetic point of view at the very least), but that's never going to happen due to the cost and demand for housing / land. 

I've thought this for a good long time; particularly with private rentals.  There is no appreciation of the cost of maintenance and its necessary frequency.  So a lot of houses have gone twenty or thirty years with no maintenance above patching.

My old neighbour's house has had forty years of patching (he owns it rather than renting it, it was his parents house and he's lived there since he was ?12). A relative of his offered to assess it and said that to bring it up to a decent condition sufficient to sell it as habitable he would need to spend £100k on it which he doesn't have.

Start multiplying that out and the national maintenance backlog bill is horrendous.

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5 minutes ago, Bakez said:

The congestion on the roads is unreal

I would actually move back to the UK if the traffic was the same as it was 20 years ago.

When I started secondary school in 2001 it took about 20mins walk to the bus and 20mins on the bus, by the time I left in 2007 it was taking about 35mins on the bus I did the same journey again in 2016 and the bus took 50mins.

My dad's commute by car has tripled in the same time (he now leaves at 5:30am in the morning to get to work at 7am - used to leave at around 6:25).

The road I grew up on, where you could literally play ball games on the roundabouts with 1 car every few mins in the early 90s, now functions as a parking centre between the hours of 7-9 and 4-6 with people queuing to get on the main road

 

Prof. Spy ha some theory on this subject regarding London/Se/M4 corridor. o nthe TOS regional forum.

I get souted down by a couple of posters, claiming its BS and everything is fucking great! But its not - spending more time chasing less money.

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Just now, spygirl said:

Prof. Spy ha some theory on this subject regarding London/Se/M4 corridor. o nthe TOS regional forum.

I get souted down by a couple of posters, claiming its BS and everything is fucking great! But its not - spending more time chasing less money.

Funnily enough the M25 and onto the M4 is the exact motorway my dad has to drive down

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22 minutes ago, xyz said:

10 million in not much over a decade. 

Think of all the infrastructure that London has, hundreds of years and some of the greatest fears of engineering ever and despite all that the whole of greater London only officially has 8 million people living in it. We're adding more people than that and are hardly building anywhere to put them. And the majority are people who are going to sit on benefits and pump out kids that also sit on benefits while never integrating. 

It's got to be a deliberate ploy hasn't it?

I was reading how Canada has loads of immigrants, but they are almost all rich, middle class and highly educated. Why the fuck can't we do something similar?

Despite the cuddltwuddly pitch, Canada sets pretty steep wage, skill and age levels.

 

If you're a TB riddled 50 yo from the arse end of Pakistan, without  pot to piss in, then the UK's your place.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Bakez said:

Funnily enough the M25 and onto the M4 is the exact motorway my dad has to drive down

A mate doing (roughly) the same commute - Reading -> bracknelly area - as he was 20 odd years ago when I worked with him.

Then, it was an easy 20m - out, down the M whatsit, turnoff parkup at company. Get first dibs on the clean toilet.

Now its ~40m or, if it goes to shit, 80m.

Thing is most of the employment has left. The industrial estates are pretty empty. There's talk of turning them into social housing FFS.

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5 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

I disagree; the average number of children born to people who were themselves born in this country is already below the replacement rate so the odd big family is needed to keep up the average.

A simple halt on immigration will solve the population problem at a stroke for western countries.  Then it is up to the third world countries to sort out their own population problem.

1. Why do you want to keep up the average? A slow decline in population would be fine if the necessary steps in finance/banking were taken to deal with the implications. That's what governments are for, or should be, to manage things like that.

2. It's only below the replacement rate for those that are seeking a decent standard of life for their kids. For Islamics and the bennies class, the current situation encourages them to multiply. So the population grows, but the proportion bringing something to the party gets ever smaller. This must change. 

3. Why would you want to stop productive people coming to the UK?  There won't be enough of them to be a problem, it would be 10-20k per year max. We produce enough passengers of our own which we have to deal with, immigration of useful people dilutes this. Of course the current situation is the opposite......

 

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2 minutes ago, swissy_fit said:

1. Why do you want to keep up the average? A slow decline in population would be fine if the necessary steps in finance/banking were taken to deal with the implications. That's what governments are for, or should be, to manage things like that.

2. It's only below the replacement rate for those that are seeking a decent standard of life for their kids. For Islamics and the bennies class, the current situation encourages them to multiply. So the population grows, but the proportion bringing something to the party gets ever smaller. This must change. 

3. Why would you want to stop productive people coming to the UK?  There won't be enough of them to be a problem, it would be 10-20k per year max. We produce enough passengers of our own which we have to deal with, immigration of useful people dilutes this. Of course the current situation is the opposite......

 

There is already as of ?last year a limit of two children for child benefit. Problem mostly solved there.

I would be delighted by a fall in population. Simple as that.

I know that zero immigration is a pipe dream with our corrupt officials so I would accept 10k meeting very high standards. No asylum seekers.

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They could start by encouraging wealthy young people to procreate, rather than encouraging poor people to procrate and the wealthy young to focus on their careers and freeze their eggs until it is too late they're 'ready'.

I'd suggest for a start a full transfer of their tax allowance for anyone on maternity leave to the person they're living with (no mucking about like 'base rate only', etc).

Also, have student loans repaid during maternity at the pre-maternity repayment rate (rather than simply defer the repayments).

Of course, this is the antithesis of the current approach, where only poor people get perks.  Which is exactly why we're in the place we are.

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17 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

There is already as of ?last year a limit of two children for child benefit. Problem mostly solved there.

That's only one benefit. What about others - any bennies experts here? I was under the impression that other entitlements increase with more children, especially TCs and HB.  IMO it needs to be the opposite - all family planning should be free, but any third kid should make life much tougher instead of easier especially for those already receiving benefits, but maybe a tax break for people working >35 hours. 

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Just now, swissy_fit said:

That's only one benefit. What about others - any bennies experts here? I was under the impression that other entitlements increase with more children, especially TCs and HB.  IMO it needs to be the opposite - all family planning should be free, but any third kid should make life much tougher instead of easier especially for those already receiving benefits, but maybe a tax break for people working >35 hours. 

HB goes up at the moment as its based upon household size (number of people) but Universal Credit, already in place in some areas and just starting its big roll out, provides a cap on that.

Pass on TCs.

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