Private rentals: still a landlord's market?

[UmBongo]

I'm getting pissed off where I live. There is a lot of noise in the block and outside and I am thinking 'F it. I want to move'. Access onto and off the estate by car is crap. I dislike the area quite a bit now.

So I have been browsing 1-2 bedroomed houses on Rightmove. Trying to avoid flats this time. That's no guarantee of any peace and quiet I understand.

Sent an email enquiry about a 2 bedroomed newish build house for £795 a month in the northern suburbs of Norwich. Seems to fit all my requirements: driveway parking space right outside, central heating, shower over bath instead of a just a shower cubicle, carpeted flooring instead of cheap laminate. Got a reply a few hours later stating that viewings were going to take place between 9.30am and 11am on Friday (yesterday) and to telephone them to confirm attendance. It was not convenient for me because I had to work. Property since been taken off the market, so whoever viewed it agreed to have it. Similar type houses seem to be £825-900 a month so it is no surprise this one went quick.

It seems like there is almost as much competition to privately rent a house as there is getting a council house. Housing Officers letting council/Housing Association homes only offer a narrow window of opportunity during a day at their choosing to view a property. To view the council flat I'm now renting I took my lunch break early.

So it looks like Letting Agents (and landlords) are still holding all the cards when it comes to houses and bungalows. I get the impression that flats require a bit more flexibility on the LA / LL's part.

[Bobthebuilder]

1 hour ago, UmBongo said:

So it looks like Letting Agents (and landlords) are still holding all the cards when it comes to houses and bungalows. I get the impression that flats require a bit more flexibility on the LA / LL's part.

Family member recently divorced, is looking for a rental flat at the mo, not much about, with plenty of viewings.

[JoeDavola]

There’s fuck all because Airbnb is the new BTL.

Mate of mine with a family was within two weeks of being homeless. Anything that came on in his area was gone by the time he phoned.

[Democorruptcy]

15 hours ago, UmBongo said:

I'm getting pissed off where I live. There is a lot of noise in the block and outside and I am thinking 'F it. I want to move'. Access onto and off the estate by car is crap. I dislike the area quite a bit now.

So I have been browsing 1-2 bedroomed houses on Rightmove. Trying to avoid flats this time. That's no guarantee of any peace and quiet I understand.

Sent an email enquiry about a 2 bedroomed newish build house for £795 a month in the northern suburbs of Norwich. Seems to fit all my requirements: driveway parking space right outside, central heating, shower over bath instead of a just a shower cubicle, carpeted flooring instead of cheap laminate. Got a reply a few hours later stating that viewings were going to take place between 9.30am and 11am on Friday (yesterday) and to telephone them to confirm attendance. It was not convenient for me because I had to work. Property since been taken off the market, so whoever viewed it agreed to have it. Similar type houses seem to be £825-900 a month so it is no surprise this one went quick.

It seems like there is almost as much competition to privately rent a house as there is getting a council house. Housing Officers letting council/Housing Association homes only offer a narrow window of opportunity during a day at their choosing to view a property. To view the council flat I'm now renting I took my lunch break early.

So it looks like Letting Agents (and landlords) are still holding all the cards when it comes to houses and bungalows. I get the impression that flats require a bit more flexibility on the LA / LL's part.

Why not apply for a transfer to a different council/HA property? Someone might fancy yours because it's nearer family, work etc. I think there's a 'mutual exchange' scheme.

[UmBongo]

1 hour ago, Democorruptcy said:

Why not apply for a transfer to a different council/HA property? Someone might fancy yours because it's nearer family, work etc. I think there's a 'mutual exchange' scheme.

I have considered it. However, I'm just wondering how I'll get on moving all my shit out in one day and how cooperative the other tenant will be. It has had new electrics, bathroom, kitchen, central heating, combi boiler and front door. I think it's doable if I move non-essential stuff into storage for a week or two.

[sarahbell]

3 hours ago, UmBongo said:

I have considered it. However, I'm just wondering how I'll get on moving all my shit out in one day and how cooperative the other tenant will be. It has had new electrics, bathroom, kitchen, central heating, combi boiler and front door. I think it's doable if I move non-essential stuff into storage for a week or two.

yeah factor in storage and it'll be a breeze. Or pay for removals van and men. 

[gibbon]

If you've got a secure council tenancy you've won the golden ticket, no way I'd give that up to get fucked by private 20% rent increases YoY and at the whims of a slum lord + lettings agent.

I mentioned in an other thread demand for private rentals are crazy where I am, min £1k p/m for a 1 bed. Properties going before even listed. You have to offer above what they want and group viewings where your job/salary details are provided to the LL and they'll then pick who they want.

 

[JoeDavola]

4 minutes ago, gibbon said:

If you've got a secure council tenancy you've won the golden ticket, no way I'd give that up to get fucked by private 20% rent increases YoY and at the whims of a slum lord + lettings agent.

I mentioned in an other thread demand for private rentals are crazy where I am, min £1k p/m for a 1 bed. Properties going before even listed. You have to offer above what they want and group viewings where your job/salary details are provided to the LL and they'll then pick who they want.

I do wonder is there some money laundering or something happening using rentals as a veichle.

I see that a one bed flat a street away from me is Let Agreed at £1200 a month. That is ridiculous and I refuse to believe anyone is paying that for a one bed flat in Belfast.

[One percent]

7 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

I do wonder is there some money laundering or something happening using rentals as a veichle.

I see that a one bed flat a street away from me is Let Agreed at £1200 a month. That is ridiculous and I refuse to believe anyone is paying that for a one bed flat in Belfast.

Supply and demand innit. As you said upthread, they’ve all been turned into airb&b as it’s completely deregulated. 

[gibbon]

28 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

I do wonder is there some money laundering or something happening using rentals as a veichle.

I see that a one bed flat a street away from me is Let Agreed at £1200 a month. That is ridiculous and I refuse to believe anyone is paying that for a one bed flat in Belfast.

People will pay whatever they have to for somewhere to live. Got mates still buying properties at today's insane prices and renting them out immediately for a decent profit. One's just brought a central 2 bed flat to add to his now 10 property portfolio, and he reckons he's going to make small fortune just AirBnB'ing it out @ £200-£300 p/n. 

Unless we start seeing rent cap laws that one bed flat in Belfast will be double that in a few more years. People will pay it because they have to. All the millions of gimmigrants want to live in the cities and the endless amount of cash in hand jobs or gig work. Young want to live in the cities for the "cool" jobs and easy access to food delivery, instagrammable events, drugs, vegan restaurants etc

If I had the money I'd be balls deep in BTL myself even though it's morally repugnant. 

[Wight Flight]

33 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

I do wonder is there some money laundering or something happening using rentals as a veichle.

I see that a one bed flat a street away from me is Let Agreed at £1200 a month. That is ridiculous and I refuse to believe anyone is paying that for a one bed flat in Belfast.

Don't compare them against the price of buying a property.

All that matters is that it is cheaper than an hotel room, as in many cases that is the choice.

[JoeDavola]

49 minutes ago, gibbon said:

People will pay whatever they have to for somewhere to live. Got mates still buying properties at today's insane prices and renting them out immediately for a decent profit. One's just brought a central 2 bed flat to add to his now 10 property portfolio, and he reckons he's going to make small fortune just AirBnB'ing it out @ £200-£300 p/n. 

Unless we start seeing rent cap laws that one bed flat in Belfast will be double that in a few more years. People will pay it because they have to. All the millions of gimmigrants want to live in the cities and the endless amount of cash in hand jobs or gig work. Young want to live in the cities for the "cool" jobs and easy access to food delivery, instagrammable events, drugs, vegan restaurants etc

If I had the money I'd be balls deep in BTL myself even though it's morally repugnant. 

 

38 minutes ago, Wight Flight said:

Don't compare them against the price of buying a property.

All that matters is that it is cheaper than an hotel room, as in many cases that is the choice.

Fair point, especially with the lack of hotel rooms as well.

Very odd what we're witnessing at the moment which is the continued shrinking of supply, I assumed it would bounce back this summer after covid but it hasn't.

I'm spoiled in that I have one of the best one bed flats in the city that for some reason the LL isn't whacking the rent up on,

Hoewever I have noticed that there's very few city centre flats coming on sale, less than ever, which leads me to believe that they're such great money spinners via airbnb nobody wants to sell them now. I'm lucky my side of the building I live in only has one airbnb but I was over at the other entrance yesterday and saw 5 key safes on the wall so at least 5 airbnb's there.

Living as a full time resident beside one must be a nightmare.

As @gibbon points out city centres will be mostly gimmegrants, stag and hen do's in airbnb's, and a few younger folk wanting the experience living in the big city, but I suspect the latter even will be an increasing minority as costs soar since each city centre flat is being priced to compete essentially with a hotel room/holiday let.

[Andersen]

Supply & demand.

Demand increasing, largely due to the welfare state pulling folk from around the globe to our shores - who then need a roof over their heads.

Supply reducing due ever increasing tax & licencing costs for legal LLs making it unprofitable to continue, add in 2+ years of chancers knowing they can stop paying rent and can't be evicted "due to Covid innit". No wonder private LLs are selling up in large numbers.

Already being discussed, 30+ pages started by  @Wight Flight  see blow for 50+ reasons why LL's are selling up, more info https://www.dosbods.co.uk/topic/16687-rental-nightmare-in-coastal-cornwall-and-coastal-devon-iow/?do=findComment&comment=1507763 List is incomplete and does not include 300% CT charge for 2nd homes in Wales ...

 

Think it's bad now? You ain't seen nothing yet 

 

 

[Wight Flight]

4 minutes ago, Andersen said:

Supply reducing due ever increasing tax & licencing costs for legal LLs making it unprofitable to continue, add in 2+ years of chancers knowing they can stop paying rent and can't be evicted "due to Covid innit". No wonder private LLs are selling up in large numbers.

No.

Landlords are fucked because they got greedy.

For all of my parents' life a landlord wanted a 10% yield.

Then BTL came along and they outbid each other to get a 3% yield.

All the government's actions wouldn't have been too bad if they hadn't borrowed to the max and kept outbidding everyone else.

They all grew up playing monopoly. They forgot the part where you go to jail.

 

 

 

 

[Bear Hug]

[spygirl]

On 18/07/2022 at 20:18, Wight Flight said:

No.

Landlords are fucked because they got greedy.

For all of my parents' life a landlord wanted a 10% yield.

Then BTL came along and they outbid each other to get a 3% yield.

All the government's actions wouldn't have been too bad if they hadn't borrowed to the max and kept outbidding everyone else.

They all grew up playing monopoly. They forgot the part where you go to jail.

 

 

 

 

Fuck your parents, up til the mass roll out of IO BTL (2002/2004ish) LL wanted 10%+ yields.

Not because they wanted £££££ but that 10% was the bare minimum to cope with the LL pratfalls - voids, maintenance, non paying tenants.

Without that chunky yield, the other costs ate way at the income

 

 

[AlfredTheLittle]

35 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Fuck your parents, up til the mass roll out of IO BTL (2002/2004ish) LL wanted 10%+ yields.

Not because they wanted £££££ but that 10% was the bare minimum to cope with the LL pratfalls - voids, maintenance, non paying tenants.

Without that chunky yield, the other costs ate way at the income

 

 

They still get the 10% (and more), it just comes through capital appreciation rather than rent. Now that possibly, maybe, capital appreciation has peaked (with interest rates possibly going up), rents are shooting up instead to ensure landlords still get their dues. With the ever growing population, and more and more houses being taken out of circulation either through holiday lets or just as empty second homes, something has to give in the end.

I've been a renter for many years and have moved around a lot, I've never seen it as bad as in the last year. People are desperate and will pay whatever they can afford for the longest tenancy possible in the biggest shithole, as at the end of the day it still beats being homeless. I rented a place last summer, the landlord charged me more than he did the tenant before. Halfway through the year I had to move out, he charged the next tenant more again, and had no problem letting the place instantly.

[Formerly]

17 minutes ago, AlfredTheLittle said:

They still get the 10% (and more), it just comes through capital appreciation rather than rent. Now that possibly, maybe, capital appreciation has peaked (with interest rates possibly going up), rents are shooting up instead to ensure landlords still get their dues. With the ever growing population, and more and more houses being taken out of circulation either through holiday lets or just as empty second homes, something has to give in the end.

I've been a renter for many years and have moved around a lot, I've never seen it as bad as in the last year. People are desperate and will pay whatever they can afford for the longest tenancy possible in the biggest shithole, as at the end of the day it still beats being homeless. I rented a place last summer, the landlord charged me more than he did the tenant before. Halfway through the year I had to move out, he charged the next tenant more again, and had no problem letting the place instantly.

However, that capital appreciation "yield" can only be realized upon paying off the mortgage or by leveraging to increase the number of properties let. The latter also increases risk.

[spygirl]

30 minutes ago, AlfredTheLittle said:

They still get the 10% (and more), it just comes through capital appreciation rather than rent. Now that possibly, maybe, capital appreciation has peaked (with interest rates possibly going up), rents are shooting up instead to ensure landlords still get their dues. With the ever growing population, and more and more houses being taken out of circulation either through holiday lets or just as empty second homes, something has to give in the end.

I've been a renter for many years and have moved around a lot, I've never seen it as bad as in the last year. People are desperate and will pay whatever they can afford for the longest tenancy possible in the biggest shithole, as at the end of the day it still beats being homeless. I rented a place last summer, the landlord charged me more than he did the tenant before. Halfway through the year I had to move out, he charged the next tenant more again, and had no problem letting the place instantly.

Address:	19 Victoria Street, Shildon, DL4 1PE
Type:	Terrace
Tenure:	Freehold
New build:	No
Links:	Price map  (Shildon)
Transaction type:	Additional price paid transaction

Registered sales:

Date Sold	Price Paid	Nominal change	Real change
28 Feb 2020	£37,500	-25.0%	-37.8%
20 Jul 2012	£50,000 *	-28.6%	-39.2%
02 May 2007	£70,000 *	16.7%	14.7%
08 Dec 2006	£60,000 *	9.1%	1.7%
14 Jan 2005	£55,000 *	113.8%	94.3%
22 Sep 2000	£25,725 *	n/a	n/a

[gibbon]

 

17 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Address:	19 Victoria Street, Shildon, DL4 1PE
Type:	Terrace
Tenure:	Freehold
New build:	No
Links:	Price map  (Shildon)
Transaction type:	Additional price paid transaction

Registered sales:

Date Sold	Price Paid	Nominal change	Real change
28 Feb 2020	£37,500	-25.0%	-37.8%
20 Jul 2012	£50,000 *	-28.6%	-39.2%
02 May 2007	£70,000 *	16.7%	14.7%
08 Dec 2006	£60,000 *	9.1%	1.7%
14 Jan 2005	£55,000 *	113.8%	94.3%
22 Sep 2000	£25,725 *	n/a	n/a

Some place in the middle of nowhere, closet city being fucking Middlesborough! For those of us who live anywhere near civilisation all we've seen is never ending HPI & rent increases. 2008 was like a little blip.

This is what it looks like around me. You'd think this would be an excellent area but it's not. The closest primary school to that house is in special measures, can't get a permanent head or deputy and going past at kick out you'd think you were in Somalia or something. The houses don't have driveways and it's impossible to park anywhere near your home, great if you have kids.

[spygirl]

7 minutes ago, gibbon said:

 

Some place in the middle of nowhere, closet city being fucking Middlesborough! For those of us who live anywhere near civilisation all we've seen is never ending HPI & rent increases. 2008 was like a little blip.

This is what it looks like around me. You'd think this would be an excellent area but it's not. The closest primary school to that house is in special measures, can't get a permanent head or deputy and going past at kick out you'd think you were in Somalia or something. The houses don't have driveways and it's impossible to park anywhere near your home, great if you have kids.

Post financial sector implosion in 2008, London/SE are showing very Middlesbrough-esque features - lots of benefit claimants, noone working, full of migrants.

Lonnon/Se rents are only high because LHA are high.

Impose a national wide LHA cap of ~500/m and see how they perform.

 

 

 

 

[tank]

18 hours ago, spygirl said:

Impose a national wide LHA cap of ~500/m and see how they perform.

What political party is going to introduce such a suicidal measure? 

Tories? Labour? 😀😀

It's pie in the sky and you know it. 

[spygirl]

3 hours ago, tank said:

What political party is going to introduce such a suicidal measure? 

Tories? Labour? 😀😀

It's pie in the sky and you know it. 

Similar was said about the 2 child limit.

UK needs tosave money, fast.

 

 

[eek]

I can easily see another 2-3 year freeze on LHA rates being implemented.. 

[tank]

16 hours ago, spygirl said:

Similar was said about the 2 child limit.

UK needs tosave money, fast.

 

 

The 2 child limit is a farce because it's not a lifetime one and deliberately so.

Most of these women get on the welfare bandwagon at a young age - i.e. 16-22 - and then bang out some more while they're still relatively fertile i.e. 35-40. Most of them are career single mums who flit from dead beat bloke to bloke and usually end up with a 50+ year old with serious co morbidities to get carer's allowance. There's no way a party of rentiers like the Tories will touch it and, of course, nor will 'New Labour'. 

The key benefit entitlement here is HB - or more accurately 'landlord benefit' - which props up both rents and prices across all regions.