• Welcome to DOSBODS

    Please consider creating a free account to be able to access all the features of the DOSBODS community. It only takes 20 seconds!

Sign in to follow this  
Chewing Grass

Artificial Intelligence is making Capitalism obsolete

Recommended Posts

Former Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis claims capitalism is coming to an end because it is making itself obsolete and giant technology corporations and artificial intelligence will cause the current economic system to undermine itself.

“Firstly the technologies were funded by some government grant; secondly every time you search for something on Google, you contribute to Google’s capital,” he said. “And who gets the returns from capital? Google, not you. So now there is no doubt that capital is being socially produced, and the returns are being privatised. This with artificial intelligence is going to be the end of capitalism.”

“Capitalism is going to undermine capitalism, because they are producing all these technologies that will make corporations and the private means of production obsolete.

“And then what happens? I have no idea.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/yannis-varoufakis-capitalism-ending-obsolete-former-greek-finance-minister-artificial-intelligence-a8006826.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Chewing Grass said:

Former Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis claims capitalism is coming to an end because it is making itself obsolete and giant technology corporations and artificial intelligence will cause the current economic system to undermine itself.

“Firstly the technologies were funded by some government grant; secondly every time you search for something on Google, you contribute to Google’s capital,” he said. “And who gets the returns from capital? Google, not you. So now there is no doubt that capital is being socially produced, and the returns are being privatised. This with artificial intelligence is going to be the end of capitalism.”

“Capitalism is going to undermine capitalism, because they are producing all these technologies that will make corporations and the private means of production obsolete.

“And then what happens? I have no idea.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/yannis-varoufakis-capitalism-ending-obsolete-former-greek-finance-minister-artificial-intelligence-a8006826.html

Yanis is Wonderpup? Who knew!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, eight said:

Yanis is Wonderpup? Who knew!

:D

However he might well be right.

Capitalism needs a triangle of labourers at the bottom funnelling money up to the top through various layers, when AI and robots butt in it's going to get really complicated. My guess is the elite will seize all assets (in progress) then find a way of eliminating the useless eaters.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, BLOOLOO said:

AI doesnt exist.

 

Correctomundo.

What we are seeing is huge amounts of number crunching applied to problems. Very little in the way of AI. True AI is at least a century away, if ever.

It is like self driving cars, 30 computers in the boot of a car to do the number crunching, 4KW of power to do what a human brain does with 20 watts. You'd be better off getting an immigrant to drive you around - like Uber :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, davidg said:

Correctomundo.

What we are seeing is huge amounts of number crunching applied to problems. Very little in the way of AI. True AI is at least a century away, if ever.

It is like self driving cars, 30 computers in the boot of a car to do the number crunching, 4KW of power to do what a human brain does with 20 watts. You'd be better off getting an immigrant to drive you around - like Uber :-)

True but it doesn't matter. Computers that were once the size of a laboratory now go in your pocket.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AI does exist - in it's barest forms - the type that exhibits the ability to dynamically learn is the stuff that will produce true AI. The one advantage it has it never goes backwards, it doesn't and have to reset from the beginning each time - in this respect it has the upper hand from the start.

As for power, no doubt that is being worked on, look at the increase in processing power and that is before a quantum leap in tech - i.e.still using silicon as the base material what  if someone cracks quantum / biological /  optical switching?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, davidg said:

Correctomundo.

What we are seeing is huge amounts of number crunching applied to problems. Very little in the way of AI. True AI is at least a century away, if ever.

It is like self driving cars, 30 computers in the boot of a car to do the number crunching, 4KW of power to do what a human brain does with 20 watts. You'd be better off getting an immigrant to drive you around - like Uber :-)

I think that is what the Saudi's will do in their new AI city.  It'll look AI and all, but knowing the Saudi's they'll be using fast internet connections to massive slum farms, where most of the time it'll be poor people / slaves actually doing the controlling remotely.  It'll be the 21st century 'Turk'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Chewing Grass said:

Former Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis claims capitalism is coming to an end because it is making itself obsolete and giant technology corporations and artificial intelligence will cause the current economic system to undermine itself.

“Firstly the technologies were funded by some government grant; secondly every time you search for something on Google, you contribute to Google’s capital,” he said. “And who gets the returns from capital? Google, not you. So now there is no doubt that capital is being socially produced, and the returns are being privatised. This with artificial intelligence is going to be the end of capitalism.”

“Capitalism is going to undermine capitalism, because they are producing all these technologies that will make corporations and the private means of production obsolete.

“And then what happens? I have no idea.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/yannis-varoufakis-capitalism-ending-obsolete-former-greek-finance-minister-artificial-intelligence-a8006826.html

I have a bit of a man crush on Yanis. If I wasn't me, I think I would quite like to be him (if that makes any sense!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Cunning Plan said:

I have a bit of a man crush on Yanis. If I wasn't me, I think I would quite like to be him (if that makes any sense!)

just buy a leather jacket and motorcycle and you can be him!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, dgul said:

just buy a leather jacket and motorcycle and you can be him!

I think I need the square jaw, gym look, fluency in several languages and insane understanding of economics. I will work on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, dgul said:

I think that is what the Saudi's will do in their new AI city.  It'll look AI and all, but knowing the Saudi's they'll be using fast internet connections to massive slum farms, where most of the time it'll be poor people / slaves actually doing the controlling remotely.  It'll be the 21st century 'Turk'.

Smart City? I'm working on that project for the Saudis. My female colleagues have to wear burkas when Prince Sheik comes to visit.... it caused a bit of a todo at the start but they've soon knuckled down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, davidg said:

Smart City? I'm working on that project for the Saudis. My female colleagues have to wear burkas when Prince Sheik comes to visit.... it caused a bit of a todo at the start but they've soon knuckled down.

You're working on stuff for that new city Neom? It'll have to be very smart indeed just to exist on Israel's doorstep, they like their neighbours (who are of course their enemies) to be a third world rabble. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Chewing Grass said:

Former Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis claims capitalism is coming to an end because it is making itself obsolete and giant technology corporations and artificial intelligence will cause the current economic system to undermine itself.

“Firstly the technologies were funded by some government grant; secondly every time you search for something on Google, you contribute to Google’s capital,” he said. “And who gets the returns from capital? Google, not you. So now there is no doubt that capital is being socially produced, and the returns are being privatised. This with artificial intelligence is going to be the end of capitalism.”

“Capitalism is going to undermine capitalism, because they are producing all these technologies that will make corporations and the private means of production obsolete.

“And then what happens? I have no idea.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/yannis-varoufakis-capitalism-ending-obsolete-former-greek-finance-minister-artificial-intelligence-a8006826.html

Oh another ai robot wanker moon economist. Why in fuck did these idiots think they ever knew anything.

Surely google is capitistic?

Why shpuld google not get  a return on its capital? Why should the bigger we get returns? Non share holders dont get returns on Unilevers capital.

A computer algo is capital, requires maintenace, etc etc etc.

10 hours ago, dgul said:

I think that is what the Saudi's will do in their new AI city.  It'll look AI and all, but knowing the Saudi's they'll be using fast internet connections to massive slum farms, where most of the time it'll be poor people / slaves actually doing the controlling remotely.  It'll be the 21st century 'Turk'.

Smart cities require smart populations.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, One percent said:

He is not saying anything new, just restating the original Marxist argument that capital will eat itself. Which it will it is based on exponential growth in a finite environment. 

Id look up expinential on a calculator.

Best capitilism gets is about 3% real growth, working population and jezza pending.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, onlyme said:

AI does exist - in it's barest forms - the type that exhibits the ability to dynamically learn is the stuff that will produce true AI. The one advantage it has it never goes backwards, it doesn't and have to reset from the beginning each time - in this respect it has the upper hand from the start.

As for power, no doubt that is being worked on, look at the increase in processing power and that is before a quantum leap in tech - i.e.still using silicon as the base material what  if someone cracks quantum / biological /  optical switching?

 

in the same way a wheel learns to spin in the direction of the force applied to it.

It does this exceedingly well.  the decision to comply with the force is 100% predictable.

It forgets the moment the force is not applied.

AI makes "decisions" in this way too.  it can then store its "decision".

Real intelligence is a lot different.  Consider the mood of the brain making the decision.  There can be biological imperatives for the moods adjusting decisions, but then that is the point of intelligence, to prolong the success of the brain involved.

AI computers have no such motive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Every so often a new generation of software technology is falsely touted as AI, a few decades ago it was so-called expert systems, nowadays its "machine learning" (which is really just some fancy statistical analysis of lots of data). 

The problem is every time we get a computer to do something that previously only humans could do, we proclaim that this represents intelligence: paying chess doesn't require intelligence, nor does driving a car, nor does generating recommendation on amazon etc etc.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, davidg said:

Correctomundo.

What we are seeing is huge amounts of number crunching applied to problems. Very little in the way of AI. True AI is at least a century away, if ever.

 

Im not so sure, this is well worth a read.

https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificial-intelligence-revolution-1.html

https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificial-intelligence-revolution-2.html

Edited by Mirror Mirror

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, XswampyX said:

This is being driven by some amazing minds not idiots! 9_9

 

Most of what was in that video was being looked at in the 80's, possibly even some of the generative stuff (but not by that nomenclature). It is quite surprising how little fundamentally has been changed in what is being used for AI, the main difference being that back then we were woefully short of computing power to do proper training/testing. Also data was thin on the ground, that changed significantly with the web now being a huge pool of all sorts of data. 

Edited by onlyme

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Similar Content

    • By Everentt
      Because of his recent suppression by plod, I
      went to see Icke on his World Tour.
      Given how the media paint him, I was expecting
      to find 90% of what he said ridiculous, but
      actually this was inverted, and I found 90% of
      what he said plausible. He seemed to me to be a
      regular avuncular dosbodder. He's very good on
      'big picture' themes. He's also channeling Ken Dodd
      because he goes on for hours.
      He began by saying that the new religion is
      'being offended' and that it needs to be stopped.
      The simplest way is to stop applying labels to
      ourselves and other people. He also repeated what
      has been said on here on the Count Dankula
      thread: you can't give offense, only choose to
      take it.
      Another theme of his was inversion: things being
      the opposite of what they claim. He quoted Chris Hedges
      saying "We now live in a nation where
      doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice,
      universities destroy knowledge, governments
      destroy freedom, the press destroys information,
      religion destroys morals, and our banks destroy
      the economy."
      An example he gave of this is how Anitfa, who
      want shut down free speech from the right, are
      actually acting as facists.
      He was on the money by implicating fractional
      reserve banking and currency issued as debt as
      keeping the 99.9% in servitude.
      He got on to the current promotion/explosion of
      transgender. His conjectural leap is that we will
      eventually be uploaded into some robotic body or
      large computer, and that these won't have a
      gender, so we are being softened up for the idea.
      He mentioned how little of the stuff comprising our
      universe is in the form of e-m radiation or force
      carrying particles, and even then we can only
      detect a tiny fraction of the bandwidth, so we
      are little more than blind.
      One the big items of ridicule in the press is his
      assertion that aliens control us, but he
      explained this much more coherently: he invoked
      the Drake equation to suggest that alien life was
      highly probably, and it need only have existed
      for a short period. Like us, they would have
      discovered AI and computers and transcended
      to become essentially immortal. This
      does two things. It massively increases the
      chances that they currently exist, and it would enable them
      to travel the large interstellar distances to
      take control of us.
      As a result, he is very negative about smart
      phones, wearable tech, wifi, Google, Facebook
      because it is easy for an AI superintelligence to
      manipulate.
      ===============================
      The things I didn't accept were that most of our
      Western leaders are 'half bloods'.
      That contrails are chemtrails and are releasing
      swarms of nanobots (I thought this would probably
      have been spotted).
      That 5G wifi is incredibly powerful and is needed
      by TPTB for world domination.
      I didn't like how the news articles that he quoted had
      originated from his own website.
      I also gained the impression he was slightly
      dyslexic, so I saw "strenght" and he said
      tetstosterone, and plasti-city.He rhymed Albert
      Camus with 'bus'. I think he would benefit from a
      philosophical/scientific advisor to try to help him
      hone his ideas so that they are internally consistent.
      Many times he's only saying what people like Kaku or
      Al Khalili are saying about multiverses or living in a computer
      simulation, but when they say it it is profound. When Icke says
      it, he is a called a nutter.
      ======================================
      i forgot to mention that the audience was a real 
      mixed bag of singletons, couples, elderly, young, 
      Westerners and muslim, men and women, well-to-do
      and down at heel.
    • By davidg
      We keep hearing that AI is making vast leaps in terms of machine translation but there are still some things that trip it up, depending on the context. I guess it is like self driving cars seeing a leaf as a pedestrian.
      http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/11/artificial-intelligence-goes-bilingual-without-dictionary
      From google translate today:
      "mettre l'haricot en commentaires et copier la guerre dans le repertoire du serveur matou"
      which makes almost perfect sense when translated into English (if you know that Matou is a Tomcat) but is total bollocks if you are French.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.