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One percent

Killing the goose that laid the golden football

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As per title

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41901398

the So-Called BBC Price of Football study has found that the majority of ticket prices have been frozen or have fallen for a third year - yet a poll of young adult football fans suggests the cost is still putting them off.

And the analysis further in (no shit Sherlock)

What we are seeing, especially with young people, is that incomes are being squeezed in real terms and this will lead to a decrease in demand, particularly as there are alternative leisure opportunities. The number of fans attending football will also respond to rise and fall in prices because of the price elasticity of demand for tickets.

Support for a team is often a matter of loyalty and hence lower prices may not attract many new fans. If young people find their finances are stretched, they may make a rational choice to follow a team by other means such as screened matches.

Young people tend to be in work but with the very slow growth in wages in the last 10 years, their income is lagging behind living costs. Real wages are not rising and young people are also saddled with student debt. Rent and utility bills have to be paid and they are rising faster than other prices.

 

im suprised it has taken this long for the wheels to come off.  People who see football as part of their culture, where they take their kids to a Saturday match, who then take their kids have been gouged beyond what is remotely reasonable. People stop taking their kids, it then becomes something that they just don't do.  

Serves these greedy feckers right. 

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Attendances are slightly up compared to when I was a kid in the 70s but merchandise sales are exponentially bigger than they were back then.

Looking around at the average high street, I reckon there are more children wearing football shirts than ever which suggests that there are plenty of young fans being drawn in.

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3 minutes ago, blobloblob said:

Attendances are slightly up compared to when I was a kid in the 70s but merchandise sales are exponentially bigger than they were back then.

Looking around at the average high street, I reckon there are more children wearing football shirts than ever which suggests that there are plenty of young fans being drawn in.

Ah, don't wreck my daydream of football clubs and their stupidly paid players going the way of dog tracks. 

Edited by One percent
Crapple

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My best friend is a Portsmouth fan. He was overjoyed when they got promoted to the premiership. He realised a couple of months later that he could no longer afford a season ticket. He only goes once or twice a season now, and the team are all the way down in “League one”*.

 

* The league names are utterly ludicrous and deliberately confusing, they should go back to just 1, 2, 3 and 4.

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1 hour ago, One percent said:

im suprised it has taken this long for the wheels to come off.  People who see football as part of their culture, where they take their kids to a Saturday match, who then take their kids have been gouged beyond what is remotely reasonable. People stop taking their kids, it then becomes something that they just don't do.  

Serves these greedy feckers right. 

As blobloblo says the wheels have far from come off, no doubt young people have been priced out but football attendances are still doing very well, especially considering the restrictions on numbers that were never there in the past (i.e. all seating, I've no doubt the bigger clubs could pack in 10,000-20,000 more in regularly).

No doubt it's insanely expensive, but still plenty of people willing to pay the price.

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53 minutes ago, gilf said:

As blobloblo says the wheels have far from come off, no doubt young people have been priced out but football attendances are still doing very well, especially considering the restrictions on numbers that were never there in the past (i.e. all seating, I've no doubt the bigger clubs could pack in 10,000-20,000 more in regularly).

No doubt it's insanely expensive, but still plenty of people willing to pay the price.

I always take predictions of the financially driven demise of anything with a pinch of salt. For every family claiming to be reduced to using food banks there seems to be two more on a financially uninhibited 24/7 whirl of every leisure activity available.

Population has risen massively, yet there are still only 92 league clubs. In effect, anything already established and restricted in number is having to work less hard to maintain bums on seats. When was the last time you did anything leisure related and didn't find a few hundred others had already had the same idea? That's why I have to laugh at the frequent dire predictions from the hotel and restaurant trade - how do they correlate with the Sgt.'s experiences in the lakes recently? Or the tales we hear about Whitby? Anybody failing to make money in these places must be a spectacular fuckwit of the first order. Finding paying customers must be like shooting fish in a barrel.

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A few months ago I was visiting mate in some smallish Southern town.

The local team were playing a a larger rival - barely even in the league, reall two men and their dogs level.

Anyhow the police were expecting an influx of 10os the larger tams supporters - thats what they told me as I asked why they were outside the pub.

Oh good, i ht0ught, thinking back to Leeds in their dumbdays - a riot.

Got a beer. Got peanuts. Waiting for the show ...

What followed were a bunch of decrepit old men (50+) filed in wearing 70s skinhead clothes.

They mnaged to cunt + fuck a lot but that was  it.

Ditto when Ive been in bigger places and the football fans turn up - like a bunch of OAPs.

 

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8 minutes ago, spygirl said:

A few months ago I was visiting mate in some smallish Southern town.

The local team were playing a a larger rival - barely even in the league, reall two men and their dogs level.

Anyhow the police were expecting an influx of 10os the larger tams supporters - thats what they told me as I asked why they were outside the pub.

Oh good, i ht0ught, thinking back to Leeds in their dumbdays - a riot.

Got a beer. Got peanuts. Waiting for the show ...

What followed were a bunch of decrepit old men (50+) filed in wearing 70s skinhead clothes.

They mnaged to cunt + fuck a lot but that was  it.

Ditto when Ive been in bigger places and the football fans turn up - like a bunch of OAPs.

 

Similar to what I saw at a pub on Baker Street in London when waiting for a bus. A load of middle aged blokes with nylon football shirts stretched over their beer bellies shouting their silly slogans at some rival tribe of equally decrepit fans over the road and looking as if they'd go down with a heart attack if they so much as threw a punch. Two elderly American ladies were looking very scared so I tried to reassure them by saying 'don't worry their bark is much worse than their bite'. 

What I like about the village/small town I live in is that the football team is very much a part of the community. People know the players, they volunteer at the ground etc, and all drink in the same pub afterwards with the away team's supporters. I get the impression that's what football was like before the 1960s when the wage cap was removed. 

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I always find it quite bizarre at work when workmates slag each other off over Football teams when they live hundreds of miles away from the teams they support.

They will go and watch the teams that they claim to  fanatically support on average once every 5 years.

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18 minutes ago, eight said:

I always take predictions of the financially driven demise of anything with a pinch of salt. For every family claiming to be reduced to using food banks there seems to be two more on a financially uninhibited 24/7 whirl of every leisure activity available.

Population has risen massively, yet there are still only 92 league clubs. In effect, anything already established and restricted in number is having to work less hard to maintain bums on seats. When was the last time you did anything leisure related and didn't find a few hundred others had already had the same idea? That's why I have to laugh at the frequent dire predictions from the hotel and restaurant trade - how do they correlate with the Sgt.'s experiences in the lakes recently? Or the tales we hear about Whitby? Anybody failing to make money in these places must be a spectacular fuckwit of the first order. Finding paying customers must be like shooting fish in a barrel.

Casnt speak about the Lakes but I can about Whitby.

Im reasonably good at accents,  so get get within 40 miles of where someone is from.

70% f Whitbys visitros are from greater Middlesbrough.

20% from Yorkshire.

10% elsewhere.

Of the visitors from boro + Yorkshire, Id guess 70% are spending public money - either tax credits , disability allowance or some made up public sector job.

Turn off the public spend taps and Whitbys visitor economy will dry up.

Remove the free OAPS bus pass  - 100s travel  in from Leeds for free FFS - and 20% will go.

The number of blue badges parked everywhere in summer is a sight to behold. Fucking biblical curse.

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4 minutes ago, M S E Refugee said:

I always find it quite bizarre at work when workmates slag each other off over Football teams when they live hundreds of miles away from the teams they support.

They will go and watch the teams that they claim to  fanatically support on average once every 5 years.

I reckon it would be pretty easy to programme robots to discuss football with humans. One of those 'Alexa' things could do it easily. Just get it to repeat a load of random phrases like: 

'They should have put (x) up (position) instead of (y)'

'They need to change the formations'

'They've done well this season but could do better'

'Reckon they'll improve next year, but then again they might not'

'They've got a chance for the cup if they go on like this'

'What do you think about the new boy Gianni de Le Carbonara?'

'The manager's gotta go'

'That ref last week was a blind ****'

Etc etc

 

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18 minutes ago, Austin Allegro said:

I reckon it would be pretty easy to programme robots to discuss football with humans. One of those 'Alexa' things could do it easily. Just get it to repeat a load of random phrases like: 

'They should have put (x) up (position) instead of (y)'

'They need to change the formations'

'They've done well this season but could do better'

'Reckon they'll improve next year, but then again they might not'

'They've got a chance for the cup if they go on like this'

'What do you think about the new boy Gianni de Le Carbonara?'

'The manager's gotta go'

'That ref last week was a blind ****'

Etc etc

 

Hah, as a non-fan this is exactly what it sounds like to me!

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57 minutes ago, eight said:

I always take predictions of the financially driven demise of anything with a pinch of salt. For every family claiming to be reduced to using food banks there seems to be two more on a financially uninhibited 24/7 whirl of every leisure activity available.

Population has risen massively, yet there are still only 92 league clubs. In effect, anything already established and restricted in number is having to work less hard to maintain bums on seats. When was the last time you did anything leisure related and didn't find a few hundred others had already had the same idea? That's why I have to laugh at the frequent dire predictions from the hotel and restaurant trade - how do they correlate with the Sgt.'s experiences in the lakes recently? Or the tales we hear about Whitby? Anybody failing to make money in these places must be a spectacular fuckwit of the first order. Finding paying customers must be like shooting fish in a barrel.

I do think someone at the Treasury or BoE might have seen this episode of Bagpuss and modelled the whole modern UK economy on it. You see the chocolate biscuits keep appearing but something most definitely does not add up (hard to imagine anyone has but, skip to 8:25 if you've got better things to do than watch an entire episode of Bagpuss)

 

Edited by SNACR

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1 hour ago, spygirl said:

A few months ago I was visiting mate in some smallish Southern town.

The local team were playing a a larger rival - barely even in the league, reall two men and their dogs level.

Anyhow the police were expecting an influx of 10os the larger tams supporters - thats what they told me as I asked why they were outside the pub.

Oh good, i ht0ught, thinking back to Leeds in their dumbdays - a riot.

Got a beer. Got peanuts. Waiting for the show ...

What followed were a bunch of decrepit old men (50+) filed in wearing 70s skinhead clothes.

They mnaged to cunt + fuck a lot but that was  it.

Ditto when Ive been in bigger places and the football fans turn up - like a bunch of OAPs.

 

 

1 hour ago, Austin Allegro said:

Similar to what I saw at a pub on Baker Street in London when waiting for a bus. A load of middle aged blokes with nylon football shirts stretched over their beer bellies shouting their silly slogans at some rival tribe of equally decrepit fans over the road and looking as if they'd go down with a heart attack if they so much as threw a punch. Two elderly American ladies were looking very scared so I tried to reassure them by saying 'don't worry their bark is much worse than their bite'. 

What I like about the village/small town I live in is that the football team is very much a part of the community. People know the players, they volunteer at the ground etc, and all drink in the same pub afterwards with the away team's supporters. I get the impression that's what football was like before the 1960s when the wage cap was removed. 

This is why I can agree with what the article is, I think, saying.  If young people get out of the habit of attending matches and so it only becomes older people, which your observations suggest, then eventually they will run out of punters as they die off 

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1 hour ago, eight said:

I always take predictions of the financially driven demise of anything with a pinch of salt. For every family claiming to be reduced to using food banks there seems to be two more on a financially uninhibited 24/7 whirl of every leisure activity available.

Population has risen massively, yet there are still only 92 league clubs. In effect, anything already established and restricted in number is having to work less hard to maintain bums on seats. When was the last time you did anything leisure related and didn't find a few hundred others had already had the same idea? That's why I have to laugh at the frequent dire predictions from the hotel and restaurant trade - how do they correlate with the Sgt.'s experiences in the lakes recently? Or the tales we hear about Whitby? Anybody failing to make money in these places must be a spectacular fuckwit of the first order. Finding paying customers must be like shooting fish in a barrel.

I think the only thing we have seen over the last 10-20 years is a massive up turn in quality in some areas (or more accurately a move away from the terrible level of service/facilities that you could get away with in the past). That shines a massive light on the rest of the trade and the ones that have been shockingly poor for decades go to the wall. 

Where I live there is huge pub scene, to the point I now avoid most of them as they are rammed Friday and Saturday nights. However just round the corner is a massive pub which basically only has more than 2 people in it at about 5:30 when the local lads come in for a quick pint before heading home. Most nights it's closed by 9 as it doesn't get the trade. I've no doubt if you talk to the landlord it's due to austerity or a down turn in the pub trade generally. It's nothing of the sort, it's a shit pub with a shit offering, could be a total gold mine. 

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2 minutes ago, One percent said:

This is why I can agree with what the article is, I think, saying.  If young people get out of the habit of attending matches and so it only becomes older people, which your observations suggest, then eventually they will run out of punters as they die off 

I think that's a reasonable angle IF there was no exposure to football generally. It's the total reverse, loads of football on the TV* (relatively) and the report says about 60% of kids will be at home playing FIFA. 

They might not be in the habit of going to actual games currently, but the attachment with football and clubs as brands is massive, way more that it ever was.  Attendance money is a minor part of the top clubs revenue, they could play the game with no fans and still be raking in the millions. 

You don't need 30-40k hard core week in week out types, you just need 5 million willing to go to a game every now and then.

I go to football regularly, I never did when I was in my 20's, mix of couldn't afford it or time, I suspect it's the same now, doesn't mean those people won't go in the future and I suspect it might well be the reverse, when they get a bit old, interests change and money becomes a bit easier to find. Rather than a group of people who have constantly gone to football you end up with people with higher incomes, more spare time and a desire to do things that may have been excluded from in the past. 

Obviously this is focused on the bigger clubs, but that's where the high ticket prices are. 

* You used to get 1 live match a month on terrestrial TV and MotD for an hour very late at night, now a vast number of homes have access to live football which is on constantly over the weekend. 

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Just now, gilf said:

I think that's a reasonable angle IF there was no exposure to football generally. It's the total reverse, loads of football on the TV* (relatively) and the report says about 60% of kids will be at home playing FIFA. 

They might not be in the habit of going to actual games currently, but the attachment with football and clubs as brands is massive, way more that it ever was.  Attendance money is a minor part of the top clubs revenue, they could play the game with no fans and still be raking in the millions. 

You don't need 30-40k hard core week in week out types, you just need 5 million willing to go to a game every now and then.

I go to football regularly, I never did when I was in my 20's, mix of couldn't afford it or time, I suspect it's the same now, doesn't mean those people won't go in the future and I suspect it might well be the reverse, when they get a bit old, interests change and money becomes a bit easier to find. Rather than a group of people who have constantly gone to football you end up with people with higher incomes, more spare time and a desire to do things that may have been excluded from in the past. 

Obviously this is focused on the bigger clubs, but that's where the high ticket prices are. 

* You used to get 1 live match a month on terrestrial TV and MotD for an hour very late at night, now a vast number of homes have access to live football which is on constantly over the weekend. 

Good point. I did matched betting for a while, and the sheer number of football games taking place at any one time, available to view on TV or online, is staggering. 

With that much money floating around the game, it's not going to decline any time soon. 

All that's changed is the old fashioned routine of religiously attending the weekly local team's ground, standing in the cold for 90 minutes then going to the pub afterwards and maybe kicking off. To be honest that was already on the way out 30 years ago. Now it's more likely to be attending 2-3 games a season at a ground an hour's motorway drive away, watching the other matches on a giant TV while eating crisps. 

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Probably off topic (as I'm not sure what everyone else is talking about) but did notice the other day that we now have Burnley, Brighton, Bournemouth and Huddersfield in the premiership. Seemed a bit unlikely. I suppose it the old days, we did have Ipswich and Norwich.

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1 minute ago, steppensheep said:

Probably off topic (as I'm not sure what everyone else is talking about) but did notice the other day that we now have Burnley, Brighton, Bournemouth and Huddersfield in the premiership. Seemed a bit unlikely. I suppose it the old days, we did have Ipswich and Norwich.

 

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There is a great variety that means the sweeping statements don't work.

With the vast TV money they receive the premiership clubs could probably give away tickets for free; and it is very pleasing to see Hull, Man City and West Ham all offering sub £300 season tickets.

At the other end Arsenal's cheapest is £1k and goes up to £2k. I just wouldn't pay that.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37953195

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4 hours ago, Hail the Tripod said:

My best friend is a Portsmouth fan. He was overjoyed when they got promoted to the premiership. He realised a couple of months later that he could no longer afford a season ticket. He only goes once or twice a season now, and the team are all the way down in “League one”*.

 

* The league names are utterly ludicrous and deliberately confusing, they should go back to just 1, 2, 3 and 4.

As are some of the names of the players and all too often commentators are stuck with a summary of "That's the most exciting 0-0 I've ever watched" as the teams have strolled around for the 90+ minutes with no effort to score a goal.

Edited by twocents

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4 hours ago, Hail the Tripod said:

My best friend is a Portsmouth fan. He was overjoyed when they got promoted to the premiership. He realised a couple of months later that he could no longer afford a season ticket. He only goes once or twice a season now, and the team are all the way down in “League one”*.

 

* The league names are utterly ludicrous and deliberately confusing, they should go back to just 1, 2, 3 and 4.

Whilst I have succumbed to calling them Premiership and Championship I still use Div 3 and 4 in conversation and on forums because those descriptions are more meaningful.

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