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sleepwello'nights

Plastic Waste in the Ocean

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50 minutes ago, sleepwello'nights said:

Isn't nature wonderful, collecting all the garbage to make it easier for us to clean it up.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-41866046/the-giant-mass-of-plastic-waste-taking-over-the-caribbean

If only global cooperation could be engaged for a useful purpose.

Large global problem, along with rising sea temperatures (No 1 issue, currently) and overfishing, and a host of other local problems. The oceans are being fucked presently. Out of sight and out of mind, or what the eye doesn't see the heart doesn't grieve over.

Edited by Hopeful

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And the latest response to this is now to stop British people using plastic straws as if there was a connection between this use, which is admittedly wasteful but either goes into landfill or is incinerated, and the mountains of junk that other countries merrily into the sea.

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Recent hurricanes caused loads of extra litter to amass in this way. You'd have thought humanity could invent some sort of Boaty Mcvacuumcleanerface type device to suck a lot of it when it gathers like that.

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3 minutes ago, blobloblob said:

Recent hurricanes caused loads of extra litter to amass in this way. You'd have thought humanity could invent some sort of Boaty Mcvacuumcleanerface type device to suck a lot of it when it gathers like that.

I know, it's so obvious isn't it? Build ships to scoop it up. Maybe look at how whales and big sharks scoop up plankton and fish!

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21 minutes ago, blobloblob said:

Recent hurricanes caused loads of extra litter to amass in this way. You'd have thought humanity could invent some sort of Boaty Mcvacuumcleanerface type device to suck a lot of it when it gathers like that.

That particular litter was direct from river discharge from Honduras if I'm correct

Edited by Hopeful

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25 minutes ago, Alonso Quijano said:

I know, it's so obvious isn't it? Build ships to scoop it up. Maybe look at how whales and big sharks scoop up plankton and fish!

I'd go so far as to say it is impossible given the scale of the problem, and it's not just what you see on the surface.

There is a daft Dutch scheme, but the less said about that the better IMO. Best to tackle problems at source, although there are small scale schemes that attract little attention and struggle for funding and PR, for an example: http://www.fishingforlitter.org.uk/.

And of course, everyone can pick up litter if they see it rather than walk past. Anyone who visits a beach can pick some up and take it to their dustbin. Even if it's just a single bottle cap you put in your pocket, it's one less piece of plastic in the ocean that could be eaten by and perhaps kill a creature.

10 minutes ago, sleepwello'nights said:

Would Greenpeace tackle it?

If they did I might make a donation to that specific project.

The scale is incomprehensible

Edited by Hopeful

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3 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

I'd go so far as to say it is impossible given the scale of the problem, and it's not just what you see on the surface.

Nature has facilitated it by gathering up a large quantity. Surely it can be cleared, even if its only whats visible on the surface.

5 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

There is a daft Dutch scheme, but the less said about that the better IMO. Best to tackle problems at source, although there are small scale schemes that attract little attention and struggle for funding and PR, for an example: http://www.fishingforlitter.org.uk/.

Thanks, I will make a donation. I hope they don't have a well paid Chief Exec.

5 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

And of course, everyone can pick up litter if they see it rather than walk past. Anyone who visits a beach can pick some up and take it to their dustbin.

As I do, does that make me a saddo?

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9 minutes ago, sleepwello'nights said:

Nature has facilitated it by gathering up a large quantity. Surely it can be cleared, even if its only whats visible on the surface.

Thanks, I will make a donation. I hope they don't have a well paid Chief Exec.

The garbage patches that get comments are a drop in the ocean, they are just what we can see.

For example, naturally produced sea salt that you buy now contains plastic from the ocean, plastic has been found in creatures from the surface to the Mariana trench, and in the fish you buy.

I'd be surprised if the organisers of fishing for litter are well paid, or paid anything much at all. (I've no connection).

But our own MMO are complete dickheads, literally, the UK Government will charge you for anything if it sees an opportunity, even picking up litter

https://marinedevelopments.blog.gov.uk/2017/08/23/why-do-i-need-a-licence-to-remove-lost-abandoned-or-discarded-fishing-gear-from-the-sea-bed/

Edited by Hopeful

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43 minutes ago, ste said:

Article by the So-Called BBC just in time to warm people up to the chancellor taxing “plastic waste” in the budget, thinking it would make a jot of difference. 

I know, the target should be the producers of the plastic material. I'm continually astonished by the efforts by local authorities to encourage us to recycle and prevent us from doing so, instead of making efforts to get manufacturers to use easier packaging to recycle. Plastic yoghurt pots are an example and the tetra packs for juices. Surely other more easily recycled packaging is available.

 

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1 hour ago, ste said:

Article by the So-Called BBC just in time to warm people up to the chancellor taxing “plastic waste” in the budget, thinking it would make a jot of difference. 

 

 

 

12F48B24-F02F-4C73-AFE2-C39C1B8DE018.jpeg

Excellent; my suspicions confirmed that absolutely sod all of this waste comes from Britain, Europe, the US, Russia.

So all the plastic bag levy and now banning plastic straws in Britain because of oceanic plastic pollution is a load of nonsense as I suspected. We weren't tipping our waste into the sea in the first place.

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11 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Excellent; my suspicions confirmed that absolutely sod all of this waste comes from Britain, Europe, the US, Russia.

So all the plastic bag levy and now banning plastic straws in Britain because of oceanic plastic pollution is a load of nonsense as I suspected. We weren't tipping our waste into the sea in the first place.

I live on the south coast and there's an astonishing amount of plastic washes up on the beaches. I've seen someone eating a takeaway whilst enjoying the seaview proceed to chuck their rubbish on the ground when they'd finished. I'm an advocate for death by firing squad for cunts like that. Seriously. 

Having said that, when I've travelled to country tries like India and Egypt, the normal method of waste disposal is to throw in on the ground and walk away. They do not give a fuck. 

 

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23 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Excellent; my suspicions confirmed that absolutely sod all of this waste comes from Britain, Europe, the US, Russia.

So all the plastic bag levy and now banning plastic straws in Britain because of oceanic plastic pollution is a load of nonsense as I suspected. We weren't tipping our waste into the sea in the first place.

Everytime you wash your microfibre fleece you do tip a load of plastic into the sewer system that then ends up the sea and then the food chain, it is a significant problem. We do generate a lot of waste that ends up in the sea. Go to any beach and you'll see plenty that originated in the 'western world' and perhaps near to home, such as shotgun wads, as well as from far away. It doesn't hurt anybody to use less or think about what they use. The example of straws you gave above. Does anybody wash out and reuse straws? If not, why make a single use item durable for 400 years, and out of a valuable hydrocarbon resource to boot, when paper straws would be just as effective.

Edited by Hopeful

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23 minutes ago, whitevanman said:

I live on the south coast and there's an astonishing amount of plastic washes up on the beaches. I've seen someone eating a takeaway whilst enjoying the seaview proceed to chuck their rubbish on the ground when they'd finished. I'm an advocate for death by firing squad for cunts like that. Seriously. 

Having said that, when I've travelled to country tries like India and Egypt, the normal method of waste disposal is to throw in on the ground and walk away. They do not give a fuck. 

 

I can't see why we can't educate people. We did it with dog shit. When I was a kid in the 70s I was always treading in  dog shit on pavements, we sorted it by education / peer pressure and now you have to go to northern France to reminisce. Mind you, I'd condone death by firing squad to all those who think they need to bag their dog's shit when on a country ramble and then leave it in a gateway or by a stile because they can't be bothered to carry it home- really?,  just let your dog shit in the hedgerow.

People seem happy to take the family for a picnic to the beach and sit among rubbish. In fact, rubbish is now accepted as part of the beach scenery, it doesn't even raise an eyebrow among many people. But who'd take the family for a picnic to the council tip?

Edited by Hopeful

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6 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

I can't see why we can't educate people. We did it with dog shit. When I was a kid in the 70s I was always treading in  dog shit on pavements, we sorted it by education / peer pressure and now you have to go to northern France to reminisce. Mind you, I'd condone death by firing squad to all those who think they need to bag their dog's shit when on a country ramble and then leave it in a gateway or by a stile because they can't be bothered to carry it home- really?,  just let your dog shit in the hedgerow.

I think you might be able to change things in this country. Plastics manufacturers used to release huge amounts of plastic pellets into waterways but the law put a stop to that. It's much more difficult when you're dealing with individuals, especially in the third world.

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33 minutes ago, whitevanman said:

I think you might be able to change things in this country. Plastics manufacturers used to release huge amounts of plastic pellets into waterways but the law put a stop to that. It's much more difficult when you're dealing with individuals, especially in the third world.

That Honduras/Guatamela plastic incident linked at the beginning of this topic has caused high level talks between the Governments in the last three weeks (and these governments don't talk to each other) about how to tackle the issue as a direct result of i) negative publicity and ii) outside pressure from a big regional player. Tourism is important in the region and helps sustain the economies. Nobody, especially neighbouring countries, wants to see tourism experience a downturn and economic emigration from the countries to rise. Pretty much they have been told to 'sort it'.

Edited by Hopeful

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I seem to remember (70s) a type of plastic that was used in carrier bags that I understand decomposed benignly in a relatively short period of time.

The plastic has a slightly coarser feel to it but was still waterproof - or am i talking bollocks

 (I know we're talking about more that plazzy bags but surely this same plastic can be used to replace other items)

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23 minutes ago, Knock Out Johnny said:

I seem to remember (70s) a type of plastic that was used in carrier bags that I understand decomposed benignly in a relatively short period of time.

The plastic has a slightly coarser feel to it but was still waterproof - or am i talking bollocks

 (I know we're talking about more that plazzy bags but surely this same plastic can be used to replace other items)

Even biodegradable is a problem as it is still there as it degrades, just because the bag has broken up and no longer a bag, the pieces are present, albeit getting ever smaller and admittedly not persisting for ~400 years. The best solutions are to i) consider what we make and ii) dispose of it properly.

An analogy is to ask would you voluntarily eat a plastic bag, or any plastic item?, or would you feed half a plastic bag to your pet dog, or feed quarter of a plastic bag to your cat etc., and if the answer is 'no' then why let it enter the food chain?

Polystyrene is the most persistent 'plastic'.

Edited by Hopeful

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1 hour ago, Hopeful said:

Polystyrene is the most persistent 'plastic'.

The issue for me is as a consumer I have no choice in how the product I purchase is packaged, other than not purchase it. 

Why don't the manufacturers work it out that so many of us would willingly pay a little bit more for something that was packaged in materials less harmful to the environment. Glass bottles for example, they may weigh a little more giving rise to a slightly higher distribution cost, but if I had a choice of buying milk in a reusable glass bottle I would.  

Edited by sleepwello'nights
proof reading

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Just now, sleepwello'nights said:

The issue for me is as a consumer I have no choice in how the product I purchase is packaged, other than not purchase it. 

Why don't the manufacturers work it out that so many of us would willingly pay a little bit more for something that was packaged in materials less harmful to the environment. Glass bottles for example, they may a little more giving rise to a slightly higher distribution cost, but if I had a choice of buying milk in a reusable glass bottle I would.  

I have not got a clue. It is probably competition driving down costs so nobody will be the first to break rank and take the plunge.

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