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Chewing Grass

Soyboys

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I saw this an lol'd.  It's amusing in it's observation, but confuses observation/correlation with causation.

Having a bit of a personal interest in this from a vegetarian angle and also being a scientist I did a fair bit of reading through the scientific publications on the hypothesis of phyto-oestrogens (the oestrogen-like compounds in plants and in higher concentrations in soy products (I was a bit concerned personally too as I was eating a fair bit of tofu - quorn hadn't really become the huge product it is now, quorn makes up a large proportion of my diet).

Anyway, in biological assays (testing phyto-oestrogens in a biological system such as cell-culture system / developing system (mouse embryo/fish embryo) where biologically available amount of these compounds were used, there was no evidence of biological affects.  e.g. chemically phyto-oestrogens may resemble oestrogens but they do NOT chemically mimic them.

It does seem though that a large amount of environmental oestrogens could be present from the use of the contraceptive pill and oestrogen compounds entering the water system/food chain that way.

PJW's video was very well done, nicely edited and his voiceovers are quality.  The soy eating virtue signalling is highly correlated - after all, if you're loudly proclaiming that you are vegan/veggie (I don't crow about my dietary habits, in fact some of the most intolerant people I've met have been at veg society/veg food meeting events, they're verging on fascists. Funny that. Left wing fascists ... remind you of anyone, maybe with a black and red flag?), then you are showing how much you CARE and how fucking right-on and 'progressive' and 'intellectual' etc etc and therefore high up on the social standing of virtue.

Cunts the lot of them.

I wouldn't give soy milk to kids though, that just seems fucking wrong.

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15 hours ago, JFK said:

I saw this an lol'd.  It's amusing in it's observation, but confuses observation/correlation with causation.

Having a bit of a personal interest in this from a vegetarian angle and also being a scientist I did a fair bit of reading through the scientific publications on the hypothesis of phyto-oestrogens (the oestrogen-like compounds in plants and in higher concentrations in soy products (I was a bit concerned personally too as I was eating a fair bit of tofu - quorn hadn't really become the huge product it is now, quorn makes up a large proportion of my diet).

Anyway, in biological assays (testing phyto-oestrogens in a biological system such as cell-culture system / developing system (mouse embryo/fish embryo) where biologically available amount of these compounds were used, there was no evidence of biological affects.  e.g. chemically phyto-oestrogens may resemble oestrogens but they do NOT chemically mimic them.

It does seem though that a large amount of environmental oestrogens could be present from the use of the contraceptive pill and oestrogen compounds entering the water system/food chain that way.

PJW's video was very well done, nicely edited and his voiceovers are quality.  The soy eating virtue signalling is highly correlated - after all, if you're loudly proclaiming that you are vegan/veggie (I don't crow about my dietary habits, in fact some of the most intolerant people I've met have been at veg society/veg food meeting events, they're verging on fascists. Funny that. Left wing fascists ... remind you of anyone, maybe with a black and red flag?), then you are showing how much you CARE and how fucking right-on and 'progressive' and 'intellectual' etc etc and therefore high up on the social standing of virtue.

Cunts the lot of them.

I wouldn't give soy milk to kids though, that just seems fucking wrong.

Aw,

But 'SOYBOY' is just such a fabulous put down.

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11 minutes ago, Byron said:

Aw,

But 'SOYBOY' is just such a fabulous put down.

It is very amusing, especially the voice PJW puts on. 
 

It makes me chuckle.

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17 hours ago, Chewing Grass said:

Above all, don't feed your baby boy soy milk.

Oops, my elder son had soy based formula milk for a couple of years. It doesn't seem to have done him much harm....  although he doesn't like spicy food or football, and he puts too much gel in his hair. :ph34r:

Edited by Hail the Tripod

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18 minutes ago, Byron said:

Aw,

But 'SOYBOY' is just such a fabulous put down.

It's a good put down for politically aggressive virtue signallers and insulting unreasoning SJW types etc even if you enjoy eating soy products yourself.

Edited by twocents

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Ah, PJW, don't mind his videos on politics but dietary advice I'm not sure on.  Haven't watched it - Is it going to be another load of bollocks about men growing tits from plant oestrogens that's been debunked so many times? 

 

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5 hours ago, Hail the Tripod said:

Oops, my elder son had soy based formula milk for a couple of years. It doesn't seem to have done him much harm....  although he doesn't like spicy food or football, and he puts too much gel in his hair. :ph34r:

I wouldn't worry. They've been drinking it for about 6000 years in the Far East. 

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22 hours ago, JFK said:

I've met have been at veg society/veg food meeting events, they're verging on fascists. Funny that. Left wing fascists

You're in good company with that opinion:

"There is a popular notion that vegetarians are mild and gentle folk who would not hurt a fly. Perhaps they would not hurt a fly. As to this, I cannot speak, but their charity towards flies certainly does not extend to human beings. Perhaps the most powerful argument in favour of a vegetarian diet is the vigour and pugnacity which it gives to those who practice it."

  • "On the fierceness of vegetarians" (13 April 1932), pp. 77–78

 

Sorry: from Bertrand Russell.

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26 minutes ago, spunko2010 said:

Ah, PJW, don't mind his videos on politics but dietary advice I'm not sure on.  Haven't watched it - Is it going to be another load of bollocks about men growing tits from plant oestrogens that's been debunked so many times? 

 

Something I find interesting is that, pretty much universally, adult mammals can't drink anything other that minimal quantities of milk (from any mammal).  There is one strange exception:  A subset of humans, until recently only found in Europe, have the genetic adaptation required to tolerate milk as adults.  

Edited by dgul

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2 minutes ago, BurntBread said:

You're in good company with that opinion:

"There is a popular notion that vegetarians are mild and gentle folk who would not hurt a fly. Perhaps they would not hurt a fly. As to this, I cannot speak, but their charity towards flies certainly does not extend to human beings. Perhaps the most powerful argument in favour of a vegetarian diet is the vigour and pugnacity which it gives to those who practice it."

  • "On the fierceness of vegetarians" (13 April 1932), pp. 77–78

 

Sorry: from Bertrand Russell.

I like that quote. I am pretty much unmoved by any human suffering, but any animals, or insects, being badly treated upsets me. I think this is down to most humans being in control of their own destiny whilst other creatures are very much at the mercy of things higher up the food chain.

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I don't eat soy, or soy products, and have no intention to do so.

Nevertheless I'm not sure if the science agrees that it's soy and soy alone that's causing these drops in test in young men...

.....but the question is; what is? After all, SOMETHING is. Over the last decade I've seen the emergence of a 'type' of young man I never saw when I was in my teens/early 20's - skinny young blokes with feminine faces and premature baldness. We're talking very noticible hair loss by early 20's. When I was that age the people whose hair loss started young tended to be the jock/weightlifter types, presumably because of their high testosterone levels.

So what is causing these low test levels? Something's up - is it to do with what these chaps are eating/drinking, or the kind of behaviors they tend to undertake i.e. if you feel victimised/helpless/chronically angry at 'the patriarchy' or some shite like that, does that sense of learned helplessness drop your test levels?

Edited by JoeDavola

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20 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

I don't eat soy, or soy products, and have no intention to do so.

Nevertheless I'm not sure if the science agrees that it's soy and soy alone that's causing these drops in test in young men...

.....but the question is; what is? After all, SOMETHING is. Over the last decade I've seen the emergence of a 'type' of young man I never saw when I was in my teens/early 20's - skinny young blokes with feminine faces and premature baldness. We're talking very noticible hair loss by early 20's. When I was that age the people whose hair loss started young tended to be the jock/weightlifter types, presumably because of their high testosterone levels.

So what is causing these low test levels? Something's up - is it to do with what these chaps are eating/drinking, or the kind of behaviors they tend to undertake i.e. if you feel victimised/helpless/chronically angry at 'the patriarchy' or some shite like that, does that sense of learned helplessness drop your test levels?

I think it must be primarily something diet related, but with the crap they put in a lot of ready meals, good luck figuring out what. In the process of being diagnosed as lactose intolerant I had to keep a food diary for a few weeks, and list out the ingredients in any ready meals I ate. We had a standard selection of M&S Chinese dishes one night that contained dozens of chemical sounding ingredients I'd never heard of, and took so long to catalogue that I swore there and then to never eat one again.

That said, I do believe there is some mental impact on hormone levels, and it doesn't take a genius to guess that if you feel that your environment is not conducive to successfully creating and raising children, then your reproductive hormones might take a hit. So in a world where man is a bit of a dirty word, and the advantages of sexual activity appear far outweighed by the disadvantages, maybe it is possible that culturally related depression might be causing some reduction.

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10 minutes ago, Fully Detached said:

I think it must be primarily something diet related, but with the crap they put in a lot of ready meals, good luck figuring out what. In the process of being diagnosed as lactose intolerant I had to keep a food diary for a few weeks, and list out the ingredients in any ready meals I ate. We had a standard selection of M&S Chinese dishes one night that contained dozens of chemical sounding ingredients I'd never heard of, and took so long to catalogue that I swore there and then to never eat one again.

That said, I do believe there is some mental impact on hormone levels, and it doesn't take a genius to guess that if you feel that your environment is not conducive to successfully creating and raising children, then your reproductive hormones might take a hit. So in a world where man is a bit of a dirty word, and the advantages of sexual activity appear far outweighed by the disadvantages, maybe it is possible that culturally related depression might be causing some reduction.

There's definitely something - I'd assumed the stories of estrogen in drinking water were all pseudoscience but maybe not:

Quote

Ethinyl estradiol (EE2), the main active ingredient of contraceptive pills, can trigger a condition known as intersex in freshwater fish, which has caused significant drops in populations in many species – although no links have yet been made with human health. 

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/jun/02/water-system-toxic-contraceptive-pill

I definitely think we'll see an effect of chronic lefty-self-loathing behavior in men encouraging low test over time, for example:

Quote

If a boy is told to “act like a man” and be aggressive or competitive, over time his behavior will jack up that testosterone in his brain. When girls are told to avoid conflict and be nurturing, that may be lowering their levels of testosterone.

https://gizmodo.com/you-can-raise-your-testosterone-levels-just-by-acting-a-1740178167

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