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spygirl

Greenham Common wimmin

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I used to live in Greenham, in the 80's & 90's. I am all for peaceful protest but these protesters were sometimes a pain in the a***.

What I did dislike was the implied, and sometimes express, view that men=war and women=peace.

I finally lost sympathy for them when they defaced the Newbury War memorial with graffiti.

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It sits uneasily with me.

The impression is something like 'Protest long and hard and you'll get the outcome you want'

Where the reality is something like 'A minority interest can cause havoc, have no influence on the outcome, and also think that they've succeeded -- and so influence those that come later'.

That's not to say they weren't right -- but the Greenham women didn't finish the cold war, and that is what closed the airbase.

I'd say that they did have an influence, in that they ensured that the airbase, when vacated by the Yanks, was torn up and converted into a park.  Perhaps it would have been better to have been used as an airfield (seeing as the investment had already been made) but I've been to the park (they do a 5k there on weekends) and it is nice enough.

The missile silos at Greenham have also proven useful as the D'Qar base for the rebel alliance.

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3 minutes ago, Virgil Caine said:

I visited Newbury regularly in the 1980s and never saw them once. Anti nuclear protests had been going on for decades before they appeared.

That's because they were at Greenham, just off the A339 a mile to the south.  And you'd only have seen them if you'd taken the minor road to the east at the north end of the airbase.

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I worked with a woman who was at Greenham Common - evangelical feminist who rose up high in the So-Called BBC and could not understand why men would stop talking when she was in ear-shot. Was worshipped by younger feminists who saw her some kind of role model.

She later had a break-down and her life fell apart. Have no sympathy for her as she had plenty of sick time from the So-Called BBC, a huge salary and no doubt has a huge pension.

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9 minutes ago, One percent said:

Are they still there?  o.O

I think some are waiting for their husbands to come a reverse the VW Beetle out ....

10 minutes ago, The Masked Tulip said:

I worked with a woman who was at Greenham Common - evangelical feminist who rose up high in the So-Called BBC and could not understand why men would stop talking when she was in ear-shot. Was worshipped by younger feminists who saw her some kind of role model.

She later had a break-down and her life fell apart. Have no sympathy for her as she had plenty of sick time from the So-Called BBC, a huge salary and no doubt has a huge pension.

From comments:

' The absence of men fundamentally undermined the protest. Rather than this being a united challenge to the siting of nuclear weapons, the emphasis of the protest descended into gender statementing. The underlying n arrative was that men were to blame and only women could oppose. And Thatcher was Prime Minister. As a member of CND, and being involved in numerous anti-nuclear actions, I became increasingly dismayed by the refocussing from an anti-nuclear stance to a misandrist stance. It was so sad to see a movement of great moral relevance be splintered by agitators with ulterior motives, specifically the demonisation of men.
The women at Greenham Common, many of whom had the highest of motives, became complicit in the division of opposition. Movements that fracture became decreasingly effective; the Greenham Common protest, ultimately, helped peripheralise the very movement they claimed to support. It was a tragedy. '

Greeham seems to have been a dry run for all this 'Hug an Islamist'

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11 minutes ago, spygirl said:

I think some are waiting for their husbands to come a reverse the VW Beetle out ....

From comments:

' The absence of men fundamentally undermined the protest. Rather than this being a united challenge to the siting of nuclear weapons, the emphasis of the protest descended into gender statementing. The underlying n arrative was that men were to blame and only women could oppose. And Thatcher was Prime Minister. As a member of CND, and being involved in numerous anti-nuclear actions, I became increasingly dismayed by the refocussing from an anti-nuclear stance to a misandrist stance. It was so sad to see a movement of great moral relevance be splintered by agitators with ulterior motives, specifically the demonisation of men.
The women at Greenham Common, many of whom had the highest of motives, became complicit in the division of opposition. Movements that fracture became decreasingly effective; the Greenham Common protest, ultimately, helped peripheralise the very movement they claimed to support. It was a tragedy. '

Greeham seems to have been a dry run for all this 'Hug an Islamist'

 

I believe some used to take pride in throwing used sanitary things at the security / coppers.

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4 minutes ago, The Masked Tulip said:

 

I believe some used to take pride in throwing used sanitary things at the security / coppers.

Yeah, brother's friend was on guard duty.

Happened daily.

 

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At least the CND movement had an identifiable cause in ban the bomb.  Lots of the stuff that similar people object to these days just don't make that any sense and they are behaving like the authoritarians they resisted in the CND days.  A bit like feminism made some sense in it's early days but now some of its stuff is totally contradictory and it's difficult to understand.  

Edited by twocents

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11 minutes ago, twocents said:

At least the CND movement had an identifiable cause in ban the bomb.  Lots of the stuff that similar people object to these days just don't make that any sense and they are behaving like the authoritarians they resisted in the CND days.  A bit like feminism made some sense in it's early days but now some of its stuff is totally contradictory and it's difficult to understand.  

It was the collapse of the Soviet Union that really finished off political protests with any sort of major goal. Once it was clear that the workers' paradise wasn't going to appear, the disparate leftist movements just splinted into identity-politics factions. To be honest it started happening in the 1960s really, once the Hungarian Uprising and the Prague Spring had made it clear that the Reds were not interested in peace and love any more than the Americans. 

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27 minutes ago, twocents said:

At least the CND movement had an identifiable cause in ban the bomb.  Lots of the stuff that similar people object to these days just don't make that any sense and they are behaving like the authoritarians they resisted in the CND days.  A bit like feminism made some sense in it's early days but now some of its stuff is totally contradictory and it's difficult to understand.  

You mean Jezza and Stop the War *

* - Unless they are started by Russia, in which case we a re fully behind them.

 

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35 minutes ago, spygirl said:

You mean Jezza and Stop the War *

* - Unless they are started by Russia, in which case we a re fully behind them.

 

It's incredible that someone with his apparent opinions has risen to the position he has.  It's just more evidence of the 5th columnists' work.

These days the other lots also seem to be significantly touched by the rampant 5th columnism in the UK but not so openly.  With them it might be as extreme but it's more covered up. 

Quote

 

 

I didn't really mean him specifically as his position is quite identifiable as at the extremity - I meant the whole SJW etc protest movement that just objects seemingly just for the sake of it and judges what to object to on completely irrational grounds.  

Edited by twocents

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24 minutes ago, twocents said:

It's incredible that someone with his apparent opinions has risen to the position he has.  It's just more evidence of the 5th columnists' work.

These days the other lots also seem to be significantly touched by the rampant 5th columnism in the UK but not so openly.  With them it might be as extreme but it's more covered up. 

 

 

I didn't really mean him specifically as his position is quite identifiable as at the extremity - I meant the whole SJW etc protest movement that just objects seemingly just for the sake of it and judges what to object to on completely irrational grounds.  

The orderordr links are great.

It just disproves all those people on here calling stop the war a bunch of lazy, feckless lefties.

All the links have gone now - so they are pretty hardwokring when they need to be ....

Here you go though:

https://web.archive.org/web/20151118232016/http://www.stopwar.org.uk/index.php/news/time-to-go-to-war-with-israel-as-the-only-path-to-peace-in-the-middle-east

'Time to go to war with Israel as the only path to peace in the Middle East

Richard Falk 05 May 2014. Posted in News

'Legitimacy war', combining the mobilization of a movement from below with global solidarity, is the best prospect ..'

https://www.buzzfeed.com/sirajdatoo/stop-the-war-take-down-a-third-article-from-its-website?utm_term=.dyWOx8bBQ#.ht4QArJbl

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https://www.economist.com/news/britain/21679485-britains-left-must-reject-anti-west-reactionaries-heart-its-movement-marching?fsrc=scn%2Ftw%2Fte%2Fpe%2Fed%2Fmarchingforthwithstopthewar

'“DO WE have Syrians?” interjects a woman. A brief silence. The gathering in Manchester’s Central Library is pondering who might take the microphone at its upcoming protest against plans to bomb Islamic State in Syria. On the list so far: Labour Party MPs, MEPs, councillors, the Green Party, the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, musicians, poets, trade unionists and “definitely a student of some sort”. Phone messages have been left, e-mails fired off and brains racked for names of old-time peaceniks. Only now has the idea of asking a Syrian arisen.

There’s a big Syrian group,” murmurs one. “But they’re not anti,” continues another, disgusted: “They were lobbying for Britain to bomb Assad.” Those present sigh as one. On to the logistics of the event. It is decided that stewards should guard the mic, poised to fend off any “pro-war Syrians or imperialists”. After all, notes the chairman: “We know what we’re talking about here.” Would that BBC Manchester possessed such discernment. The station is interviewing pro-war Kurds tomorrow, to the group’s disdain: “They dig ’em up.” “Amazing how they find them!”'

 

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19 minutes ago, spygirl said:

https://www.economist.com/news/britain/21679485-britains-left-must-reject-anti-west-reactionaries-heart-its-movement-marching?fsrc=scn%2Ftw%2Fte%2Fpe%2Fed%2Fmarchingforthwithstopthewar

'“DO WE have Syrians?” interjects a woman. A brief silence. The gathering in Manchester’s Central Library is pondering who might take the microphone at its upcoming protest against plans to bomb Islamic State in Syria. On the list so far: Labour Party MPs, MEPs, councillors, the Green Party, the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, musicians, poets, trade unionists and “definitely a student of some sort”. Phone messages have been left, e-mails fired off and brains racked for names of old-time peaceniks. Only now has the idea of asking a Syrian arisen.

There’s a big Syrian group,” murmurs one. “But they’re not anti,” continues another, disgusted: “They were lobbying for Britain to bomb Assad.” Those present sigh as one. On to the logistics of the event. It is decided that stewards should guard the mic, poised to fend off any “pro-war Syrians or imperialists”. After all, notes the chairman: “We know what we’re talking about here.” Would that BBC Manchester possessed such discernment. The station is interviewing pro-war Kurds tomorrow, to the group’s disdain: “They dig ’em up.” “Amazing how they find them!”'

 

 

“Amazing how they find them!”'

I don't think it's that amazing.  I'm sure that quite a few of them here are Syrians in the political arena having left their home country hoping to sway the UK powers and some to eventually return home to take over when the time suits.  I also think they regularly  contribute a lot to phone ins etc to sway UK opinion and quite possibly they are known to the authorities and the MSM and are invited to broadcast their opinions under the umbrella of being a random person. 

It applies to other similar countries as well.

The problem seems to be that even if a UK politician is in favour of stopping the war as a one off issue it appears that they have to engage with organisations like Stop the War and attach themselves to most if not all of their policies otherwise they won't get the support and the votes.

 

Edited by twocents

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4 hours ago, dgul said:

That's because they were at Greenham, just off the A339 a mile to the south.  And you'd only have seen them if you'd taken the minor road to the east at the north end of the airbase.

Not much of a protest message if it could make its influence felt a mile away.

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19 minutes ago, Virgil Caine said:

Not much of a protest message if it could make its influence felt a mile away.

It is quite instructive to be part of a newsworthy event to see how it is spun by the media.

I was peripheral to two big riots in London in the 80s.  For both I didn't realise until I'd got home and saw it on the news.

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