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Turned Out Nice Again

How to de-Islamicize the UK?

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Assuming a religion or cult ever came to be acknowledged in the mainstream as an anti-social movement, how could it be curtailed without extreme measures like mass-expulsions or arrests? Has this ever been achieved anywhere? Or do we rely on it it eventually moderating/ dying-out of its own accord as Christianity is doing (assisted by the Dawkins-/ Hitchens- Atheism-promoters)?

I understand Mustafa Kemal Pasha had success against Islam in Turkey in the 20s, albeit not without somewhat violent supression.

https://1muslimnation.wordpress.com/2006/11/12/islam-to-secularism-how-kemal-ataturk-reformed-ottoman-turkey/

Atatürk carefully constructed and deployed a master plan, today known as the Kemalist ideology or Kemalism. Believing in this strategy Ataturk and his associates started to publicly question the value of religion and held the view religion was not compatible with modern science and secularism was imperative for modernity.

Thus Ataturk regime began step by step to implement the Kemalist ideology with a radical reformation of the Turkish society with the aim of modernizing Turkey from the remnants of its Ottoman past. In line with their ideological convictions the Ataturk government abolished Islamic religious institutions; replace the Shariah law with adapted European legal codes; replaced the Islamic calendar with the Gregorian calendar; replace the Arabic script which was used to write the Turkish language with the Latin script and closed all religious schools.

In addition Ataturk took over the country’s 70,000 mosques and restricted the building of new mosques. Muftis and imams (prayer leaders) were appointed and regulated by the government, and religious instructions were taken over by the Ministry of National Education. Mosques were to preach according to the Ataturk’s dictates and were used to spread the Kemalist ideology.

For Sufi Muslims it was worse. Atatürk confiscated Sufi lodges, monasteries, meeting places and outlawed their rituals and meetings.

According to Ataturk modernity was valued and represented as not wearing any religious dress or being non-religious. So he ordered what cloths Turkey’s citizens should wear. The traditional garb of local religious leaders was outlawed. The fez (Turkish hat) was banned for men and the veil and hijab (headscarves) were discouraged and restricted for women.

Atatürk and his colleagues even wanted to Turkify Islam. They ordered Muslims to use the Turkish word Tanri instead of Allah for God and use the Turkish language in Salaath (the 5 times prayers) and Azaan (the call for prayers). These preposterous changes deeply disturbed the faithful Muslims and caused widespread resentment, which led in 1933 to a return to the Arabic version of the call to prayer.

After some time the Atatürk regime moved towards more extreme measures. Ataturk prohibited religious education. The existing mosques were turned into museums or used for the regimes secular purposes.

The faithful Turkish and Kurdish Muslims be they Sunni, Shia or Sufi were powerless against Mustafa Kemal Ataturk’s regime and his military. But they tried to resist the oppression and even led rebellions. But he was too strong for them and Ataturk suppressed the rebellions after massive bloodsheds. (e.g. Seyh Sait rebellion in southeastern Turkey which claimed nearly 30,000 lives before being suppressed had its roots in religious grievances.)

Mustafa Kemal Ataturk died in 1938. After that some of his preposterous laws were revoked by his successors due to their harshness and the fact that Islam was always a strong force at the popular level despite the suppression.

Since then there have been occasional calls for a return to Islam. But the secular governments and military true to the Kemalist ideology have managed to suppress them.

 

 

 

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Turkey's appeal was it's secular state. How long will this last? If Turkey falls into a religious state, it is bad. I have a couple of Turkish mates. They don't really approve of religious nutters running the country.o.O

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Target the women and children.

No, I don't mean with a rifle, I mean if you want to find a weakness in the hardcore Islamic communities armour for the long term benefit, then this is where to start. 

I'd say in the heavy duty Islamic communities, it's the women and children that have the hardest time of it. It's a patriarchal institution so the men aren't going to be up for change, they benefit from it so change isn't in their interest however I doubt many women, if shown a serious alternative, would choose to live under the thumb in an oppressive Islamic household.

The children potentially haven't been indoctrinated yet so there is an opening there to turn them away from radical Islam. If they live in a strict Islamic household then they will never know any different. 

Break the male dominated link in the islamic chain and I'd like to think that the women and next generation would walk away from it of their own accord eventually.

That, for me, is where the solution lies. The older men are a write off as they have everything to lose, go for the ones under the cosh and give them a chance to get out from under it. Show the kids that there is more to life than a domineering religion.

 

How exactly you do that I don't know.

I've also been wrong before. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, The XYY Man said:

Should work a treat Sarge.

Because it's exactly how our so-called rulers de-Christianised the UK in the first place...

 

XYY

 

 

Yup, if you want to dilute an institution empower those it shits upon.

Strange when you think about it, as a nation we've become more secular but in the meantime we've encouraged an external, dominating religion to set up shop and get comfortable.

Mental really. 

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42 minutes ago, MrPin said:

Turkey's appeal was it's secular state. How long will this last? If Turkey falls into a religious state, it is bad. I have a couple of Turkish mates. They don't really approve of religious nutters running the country.o.O

It has already fallen.

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  • Have a specialist squad to prosecute crimes against Islamic women and children committed by Muslims.  Publicize massively in non english language media.  You will only break the support if the victims are seen to be from their own community (white girls do not count)
  • No imams allowed who cannot speak english to 'A' level standard
  • Investigate fully disappeared females with DNA testing (from all communities).  If the girl has disappeared, parents are placed on the sex offenders register for life
  • All religious ceremonies to be held in english.  Yes, including Catholic ones
  • Ban religious schools unless all lessons are in English.  If a teacher is recorded saying something illegal under new UK legistlation (such as beat your wife, or do not befriend the kuffir), immediate sacking with no ability to teach again for 10 years.  Set up an anoymous dropbox for kids to video
  • BBC to run a series analysing each major religion and the inconsistencies therein.  the BBC to follow it's mandate to EDUCATE.
  • Islamic terrorists who are captured have no access to the Koran or any religious teachings in jail
  • Burka and Niqab to be banned in public service buildings
  • Stop all immigration for any reason unless the immigrant can speak english to O level
  • All private prosecutions of newpapers for concealing facts in press reports (example - I read an online report of the Islamic lorry murders in Sweden after the suspect was arreasted and it did not mention the words 'Islamic, Islam, or Muslim' once.

None of the above will happen.  Told you before - this ends in civil war.

 

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Some good thoughts here already. 

  • Remove all state support for any religion e.g. tax incentives, special treatment for religious schools, charitable status etc. 
  • Normalise and promote secular lifestyles and beliefs through regular promotion through state broadcasters like the BBC, education system etc. 
  • Government advertising campaign to promote atheism and humanist beliefs and values. 
  • Pursue an active policy of integration with ghettoised communities. 
  • Personally, I would also ban halal unless it is demonstrably more humane than existing methods of slaughter. 

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2 hours ago, MrPin said:

Turkey's appeal was it's secular state. How long will this last? If Turkey falls into a religious state, it is bad. I have a couple of Turkish mates. They don't really approve of religious nutters running the country.o.O

Average IQ in Turkey is 90, anything below 97 is viewed as potentially leading to a failed/unstable country.

There's only one way this is going and it won't be pleasant.

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1 hour ago, MrPin said:

 

Pretty much that's fucked their tourism then!

I think it's probably on the way down the toilet! Hope not, but fear so!

There was a programme on the BBC 2-3 weeks ago on Egypt. A lot of the big hotels are converting to Islamic hotels as the foreign tourists are not going - no alcohol, separation of sexes, etc. There was one huge luxury hotel that with a massive pool that they had literally split straight down the middle by building a huge wall, must have been a good 30 feet tall to keep the men from seeing the women's toes and having a "sex emergency".

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Just now, The Idiocrat said:

There was a programme on the BBC 2-3 weeks ago on Egypt. A lot of the big hotels are converting to Islamic hotels as the foreign tourists are not going - no alcohol, separation of sexes, etc. There was one huge luxury hotel that with a massive pool that they had separated by building a huge wall, must have been a good 30 feet tall to keep the men from seeing the women's toes and having a "sex emergency".

That's progress then? I've not been to all of Egypt, but Alexandria was a holiday resort, even for the Egyptians, and I never saw that!

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Just enforce the existing laws on the welfare of animals being slaughtered and ban any imported meat not certified as humane. Banning the Kosher and Halal "opt outs" to current legislation should mean the most religiously extreme will choose to go elsewhere. Moderates of both affected religions would probably not mind having a more modern dinner.

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It must be made illegal for foreign money to fund Islamic schools, mosques, community centres etc.

Gulf state money has been pouring in to institutions all over the world pushing the most extreme form of islam, wahabbism/salafism.

An example is the massive Dubai funded Islamic Cultural Centre of Dublin

 

This needs to be stopped. Local people only should fund such places.

 

We need to follow Austria lead.

Austria Bans Foreign Funding for Mosques, Forces Imams to Speak German

I guess Austria still has some memory of when the Ottomans under Grand Vizier Kara Mustapha who's army of 300,000 besieged and tried to take Vienna only 300 years ago. Second Siege of Vienna

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Chewing Grass said:

Average IQ in Turkey is 90, anything below 97 is viewed as potentially leading to a failed/unstable country.

There's only one way this is going and it won't be pleasant.

Then my mate Big Turk, is well above average, with his two Master's degrees in techy subjects!

I think he must have an IQ

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1 minute ago, Chewing Grass said:

Big Turks intelligence is probably why he has left Turkey!

And obviously his family must have been quite well off. Anyway he's here now, has a British passport, and as far as I am concerned, one of the more welcome immigrants. He was very popular at work and the factory were rather disappointed when they got MrPin instead for a technical problem. Even though I fixed it, er eventually!

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6 hours ago, wherebee said:
  • Have a specialist squad to prosecute crimes against Islamic women and children committed by Muslims.  Publicize massively in non english language media.  You will only break the support if the victims are seen to be from their own community (white girls do not count)
  • No imams allowed who cannot speak english to 'A' level standard
  • Investigate fully disappeared females with DNA testing (from all communities).  If the girl has disappeared, parents are placed on the sex offenders register for life
  • All religious ceremonies to be held in english.  Yes, including Catholic ones
  • Ban religious schools unless all lessons are in English.  If a teacher is recorded saying something illegal under new UK legistlation (such as beat your wife, or do not befriend the kuffir), immediate sacking with no ability to teach again for 10 years.  Set up an anoymous dropbox for kids to video
  • BBC to run a series analysing each major religion and the inconsistencies therein.  the BBC to follow it's mandate to EDUCATE.
  • Islamic terrorists who are captured have no access to the Koran or any religious teachings in jail
  • Burka and Niqab to be banned in public service buildings
  • Stop all immigration for any reason unless the immigrant can speak english to O level
  • All private prosecutions of newpapers for concealing facts in press reports (example - I read an online report of the Islamic lorry murders in Sweden after the suspect was arreasted and it did not mention the words 'Islamic, Islam, or Muslim' once.

None of the above will happen.  Told you before - this ends in civil war.

I think there's a decent chance of getting the veil restricted, if there are European precedents; similarly Halal is a weak link (except that it will be propped up by the Jewish lobby, on behalf of Kosher). Crimes against women and children (FGM etc.) would be a shoe-in if only the Feminists gave a shit.

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