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JackieO

Over the Border (Brexit thread)

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OK now we have Irish border hysteria from remoaners and the Irish government.

The UK, Ireland and the people of Ireland north and south don't want a hard border

Other EU/no EU countries have land borders and seem to have worked things out without the bloody drama.

Take Norway/Sweden for example. From Wikipedia 

 

"Both countries are members of the Schengen Area, and there are therefore no immigration controls. However, only Sweden is part of the European Union, so there are customs checks. These are performed by the Norwegian Customs and Excise Authorities and the Swedish Customs Service. These checks are sporadic along the Norway–Sweden border. Cars are usually not forced to stop. To combat drug smuggling, the use of CCTV surveillance has recently been increased, with systems using Automatic number plate recognition being rolled-out in 2016 and 2017.

Both Norway and Sweden emphasise checks against other countries. For flights and ferries between the two countries, there are no formal passport checks at airport and ferry ports, but identity cards are needed to board.

Before 2001, the countries were not part of the Schengen Area, but even then there was no passport check. Passengers were led to the passport control at international airports, but could pass simply by showing the ticket and/or speaking and looking Scandinavian. There were more road customs stations then, some have been closed for cost reasons."

 

 

Here's some kids unfazed by the border between Norway and Sweden!

Switzerland is another country who copes just fine with numerous borders and crossings.

Are these fuckers just trying to look for problems?

Old Buddhist proverb;

The path is clear, why do you throw rocks in the way?

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8) Andorra is not part of the EU, EFTA or the Euro zone.Andorra is not a member of most of the major European associations. Even though they use the Euro, they are not technically part of the Eurozone. They have a special relationship with the EU which they follow their trade rules for industry but not for agriculture ...30 Jun 2011

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We're probably going to get the most heavily guarded border in the world, with slightly thicker wire than North to South Korea.  The queues to cross it will be miles long and each person crossing will get quizzed for many minutes while their documentation is checked.

And this will be explained as the problems you'll get if you leave the EU; and that is why Schengen is so magnificent in eliminating these problems.

Although, strangely, all the problems will be at the EU side of the border.  The UK side will be peanuts in comparison.

Even more strangely, despite all the checks, movements of illegals over the border (S->N) will skyrocket anyway.

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I don't know the ins and outs but it appears the Norn Iron govt are concerned about anything that appears to them as integrating with or treating them the same as Southern Ireland.

Thin end of wedge, slippery slope, of course being Irish they are thick as shit  very adept at running rings around the UK govt to maximise their political and monetary gain.

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Easy solution

Let the Irish Republic have Ulster

The border will then be the sea.

Irish taxpayers can then pay for the cost of NI rather than the rest of us.

If it ends in civil war I am sure the rest of the EU will be happy to send their nationals to die as peace keepers.

 

Edited by Virgil Caine

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11 minutes ago, Bedrag Justesen said:

The other even simpler solution is for the South to leave E U.

That is my view.

I'm Irish/British dual national born in England to Irish parents.

I just can't understand how the Irish fought to remove the British jack boot off its throat just to invite the EU jack  boot in 50 years later. 9_9

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1 minute ago, JackieO said:

That is my view.

I'm Irish/British dual national born in England to Irish parents.

I just can't understand how the Irish fought to remove the British jack boot off its throat just to invite the EU jack  boot in 50 years later. 9_9

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the EU pretty much pay for the transformation of Irish infrastructure? I have a vague memory that EU funds represented a significant chunk of Eire GDP for a few years in the 90s. 

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5 minutes ago, JackieO said:

That is my view.

I'm Irish/British dual national born in England to Irish parents.

I just can't understand how the Irish fought to remove the British jack boot off its throat just to invite the EU jack  boot in 50 years later9_9

They paid for new roads and stuff :CryBaby:

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6 minutes ago, JackieO said:

That is my view.

I'm Irish/British dual national born in England to Irish parents.

I just can't understand how the Irish fought to remove the British jack boot off its throat just to invite the EU jack  boot in 50 years later. 9_9

Seems to be the way.  Scotland and Catalan want independence but want to join the EU asap and give it away again.

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1 hour ago, One percent said:

The border is the least of problems.  don't you realise that the sky will fall in when we leave?  

No, you got that wrong,

its:-

The seas going to boil and the skies going to fall

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28 minutes ago, swissy_fit said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the EU pretty much pay for the transformation of Irish infrastructure? I have a vague memory that EU funds represented a significant chunk of Eire GDP for a few years in the 90s. 

They sold their souls to the devil himself.

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25 minutes ago, montecristo said:

Seems to be the way.  Scotland and Catalan want independence but want to join the EU asap and give it away again.

And therein lies the obvious contradiction on which the credibility of the separatists in all those places evapourates.

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1 hour ago, JackieO said:

OK now we have Irish border hysteria from remoaners and the Irish government.

The UK, Ireland and the people of Ireland north and south don't want a hard border

Other EU/no EU countries have land borders and seem to have worked things out without the bloody drama.

Take Norway/Sweden for example. From Wikipedia 

 

"Both countries are members of the Schengen Area, and there are therefore no immigration controls. However, only Sweden is part of the European Union, so there are customs checks. These are performed by the Norwegian Customs and Excise Authorities and the Swedish Customs Service. These checks are sporadic along the Norway–Sweden border. Cars are usually not forced to stop. To combat drug smuggling, the use of CCTV surveillance has recently been increased, with systems using Automatic number plate recognition being rolled-out in 2016 and 2017.

Both Norway and Sweden emphasise checks against other countries. For flights and ferries between the two countries, there are no formal passport checks at airport and ferry ports, but identity cards are needed to board.

Before 2001, the countries were not part of the Schengen Area, but even then there was no passport check. Passengers were led to the passport control at international airports, but could pass simply by showing the ticket and/or speaking and looking Scandinavian. There were more road customs stations then, some have been closed for cost reasons."

 

 

Here's some kids unfazed by the border between Norway and Sweden!

Switzerland is another country who copes just fine with numerous borders and crossings.

Are these fuckers just trying to look for problems?

Old Buddhist proverb;

The path is clear, why do you throw rocks in the way?

For a bit of balance, it is a total PITA trying to export anything to Switzerland.

But we only need a customs border if we don't have a trade deal.

This is Europe sending the biggest signal possible that a trade deal won't happen.

We should listen to them and cut off the 'negotiations'

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22 minutes ago, swissy_fit said:

Sure, but I have never received the impression from an Irishman/woman that they regretted this, though I'm sure there are some. Maybe life in Eire before the EU came on the scene wasn't that tip-top?

They were relatively poor. I spent all my summers as a kid in Ireland.

My uncles place was basic to say the least.

No running water, bathroom or toilet.

 

 

They traded this, the Irish proclamation of Independence

 

POBLACHT NA hÉIREANN
THE PROVISIONAL GOVERNMENT OF THE IRISH REPUBLIC TO THE PEOPLE OF IRELAND

IRISHMEN AND IRISHWOMEN:
In the name of God and of the dead generations from which she receives her old tradition of nationhood, Ireland, through us, summons her children to her flag and strikes for her freedom.

Having organised and trained her manhood through her secret revolutionary organisation, the Irish Republican Brotherhood, and through her open military organisations, the Irish Volunteers and the Irish Citizen Army, having patiently perfected her discipline, having resolutely waited for the right moment to reveal itself, she now seizes that moment, and supported by her exiled children in America and by gallant allies in Europe, but relying in the first on her own strength, she strikes in full confidence of victory.

We declare the right of the people of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland and to the unfettered control of Irish destinies, to be sovereign and indefeasible. The long usurpation of that right by a foreign people and government has not extinguished the right, nor can it ever be extinguished except by the destruction of the Irish people. In every generation the Irish people have asserted their right to national freedom and sovereignty; six times during the past three hundred years they have asserted it in arms. Standing on that fundamental right and again asserting it in arms in the face of the world, we hereby proclaim the Irish Republic as a Sovereign Independent State, and we pledge our lives and the lives of our comrades in arms to the cause of its freedom, of its welfare, and of its exaltation among the nations.

The Irish Republic is entitled to, and hereby claims, the allegiance of every Irishman and Irishwoman. The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and of all its parts, cherishing all of the children of the nation equally, and oblivious of the differences carefully fostered by an alien Government, which have divided a minority from the majority in the past.

Until our arms have brought the opportune moment for the establishment of a permanent National Government, representative of the whole people of Ireland and elected by the suffrages of all her men and women, the Provisional Government, hereby constituted, will administer the civil and military affairs of the Republic in trust for the people.

We place the cause of the Irish Republic under the protection of the Most High God, Whose blessing we invoke upon our arms, and we pray that no one who serves that cause will dishonour it by cowardice, inhumanity, or rapine. In this supreme hour the Irish nation must, by its valour and discipline, and by the readiness of its children to sacrifice themselves for the common good, prove itself worthy of the august destiny to which it is called.

Signed on behalf of the Provisional Government:
THOMAS J. CLARKE
SEAN Mac DIARMADA
P. H. PEARSE
JAMES CONNOLLY
 
 
THOMAS MacDONAGH
EAMONN CEANNT
JOSEPH PLUNKETT
 
 
 
 
 
For nice roads and a guilded cage.
 
Edited by JackieO

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The problem for Ireland is one the UK is the biggest market for its products. In fact I think it is far more important trading partner for them than the remainder of the EU is for the rest of the British isles. This trade is still a big element of the Irish economy. For that reason they don't want any barriers because  there chances of flogging their agricultural surplus to the rest of the EU is practically nil. Moreover,  Brexit is going to open up the UK market to other world suppliers of produce who will certainly want to eat some of Ireland's cake.

In some respects the Irish are lucky that British politicians have been so pusillanimous about maintaining the status quo in Northern Ireland whatever the cost to the taxpayer. In particular they have benefitted from their willingness to expend UK gold and lives so Catholics and Protestants in Ulster can continue to bicker with each other as if the 17th century had not ended. I expect we will see the usual tropes trotted out about how Brexit could risk a return of the troubles in Ireland (as if that never happened when we were in the EU) or even civil war. Though if the 1920s are anything to go by the Irish can organise those themselves without any help from the rest of the UK. 

The thing that the Irish need to be concerned about is that Britain's exit from the EU is as economically and politically traumatic as some Remainers suggest because believe me the blowback from that will be winging its way across the sea to Ireland one way or another.

 

Edited by Virgil Caine

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1 hour ago, swissy_fit said:

Sure, but I have never received the impression from an Irishman/woman that they regretted this, though I'm sure there are some. Maybe life in Eire before the EU came on the scene wasn't that tip-top?

All the ones I've talked to know what a cash cow it is for them, same is true for many of the smaller countries in the Union. 

If we were sucking on the EU teat we would have the same opinion, difference is we pay for a lot of it and so don't see it as all that beneficial. 

All this talk of borders is just bollocks, they are shit scared of their entire GDP getting fucked because their trade is so reliant on the UK.

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12 minutes ago, gilf said:

All the ones I've talked to know what a cash cow it is for them, same is true for many of the smaller countries in the Union. 

If we were sucking on the EU teat we would have the same opinion, difference is we pay for a lot of it and so don't see it as all that beneficial. 

All this talk of borders is just bollocks, they are shit scared of their entire GDP getting fucked because their trade is so reliant on the UK.

I think many would see this differently if they realised  how much they are on the hook for when it came to bailing out the German banks, 

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48 minutes ago, gilf said:

All the ones I've talked to know what a cash cow it is for them, same is true for many of the smaller countries in the Union. 

If we were sucking on the EU teat we would have the same opinion, difference is we pay for a lot of it and so don't see it as all that beneficial. 

All this talk of borders is just bollocks, they are shit scared of their entire GDP getting fucked because their trade is so reliant on the UK.

Worth noting that Ireland does a plot of 'disguised'  food exporting to the UK as well as direct trade via the food processing industry in Belgium and Holland where it is a major raw materials supplier.

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