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JackieO

Over the Border (Brexit thread)

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Just heard a remainer say that we won't be able to sell our financial services to Europe after Brexit.

Does anyone know how much of Europe's insurance market goes through London?

Without insurance, almost everything will have to stop. 

Edited by Cunning Plan

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1 hour ago, The Generation Game said:

I don't understand the changing demographics perspective of voting again. 

That hilarious sjw twitter, whose poll was posted on here the other day, talking about how we need another vote as, since the last vote, Brexit voters have died and self-identifying remainers have been born. 

I would have thought that the longer we continue down the current path, the more disenfranchised "have nots" will be created by the globalist machine. 

People just seem incapable of walking a mile in someone else's shoes, despite an increasing number of people owning the same shoes. 

They should take a look at the voting demographics from the 1975 Referendum where the young were much more likely to vote Leave than the old

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/07/31/the-referendums-of-1975-and-2016-illustrate-the-continuity-and-change-in-british-euroscepticism/

Also  neglects the inconvenient fact that across Europe the young are actually among the most Eurosceptic in a lot of countries.

Edited by Virgil Caine

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18 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

Just heard a remainer say that we won't be able to sell our financial services to Europe after Brexit.

Does anyone know how much of Europe's insurance market goes through London?

Without insurance, almost everything will have to stop. 

From the EU

https://ec.europa.eu/info/brexit/brexit-preparedness/preparedness-notices_en#fisma

From UK Govt

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/banking-insurance-and-other-financial-services-if-theres-no-brexit-deal/banking-insurance-and-other-financial-services-if-theres-no-brexit-deal

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3 hours ago, Long time lurking said:

This just highlights what the ROI border issue is all about ...a distraction 

 

We have friends in Basel who we visit and there are also borders where they can inspect and you have to queue to get through so sometimes it is easier to get back to France by turning round and going through Germany. For those unaware there is a place in Bale (see what I did there) where you can walk round a post and step into France, Switzerland and Germany. Many people live in France and commute across the border into Switzerland and one of the companies even has an underground tunnel so you can walk from the office in France to the production plant in Switzerland. So Chris Philp MP  is wrong as there can be and often is a hard border between Switzerland and France and we always had out passports in case of a check. People always go on about the 'technical solution' but never actially say what it is exactly.

But the Irish border is really much more political and seems to be rooted in a united Ireland and the NI people wanting to remain in UK; a long standing historical mess that has to a large extent been resolved but could unravel if the Good Friday agreement is breached.

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1 hour ago, The Generation Game said:

It's not a question of whether they care more, it's that they can be held accountable. 

I wish! 

I would hold Theresa accountable right this minute. 

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7 minutes ago, The Generation Game said:

1. Under the current system, you get your chance in 2022.

2. Also, under the current system, you get no say in the appointment of Van Rompuy, Tusk, Juncker etc. 

1. Not really what I call holding someone accountable. If I was really shit at my job I doubt my bosses would say let's wait until 2022 to fire the bastard.

2. Well no, just as you get no say in who is appointed to the various UK cabinet posts.

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2 minutes ago, Funn3r said:

1. Not really what I call holding someone accountable. If I was really shit at my job I doubt my bosses would say let's wait until 2022 to fire the bastard.

2. Well no, just as you get no say in who is appointed to the various UK cabinet posts.

Not sure what this thread of argument is about so I may have this wrong but are you really saying that a system where you have absolutely no say in who gets to run the show is equal to one where you get the option every few years to vote the ruling party out of power? Granted, it's an imperfect system (albeit better than anything else anyone has tried at scale) but it does work to a reasonable degree compared to the alternatives.

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28 minutes ago, Funn3r said:

1. Not really what I call holding someone accountable. If I was really shit at my job I doubt my bosses would say let's wait until 2022 to fire the bastard.

2. Well no, just as you get no say in who is appointed to the various UK cabinet posts.

I was referring to your statement on the platitudes of "sovereignty." I have given you my reasoning on voting Brexit. 

I have nothing further to add on this subject. Let's just say "You 1, me 0" and you can file me under the long list of people you know who voted Brexit without being able to form a rational argument. 

Edited by The Generation Game
Crapple autocorrect

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1 hour ago, TheBlueCat said:

Not sure what this thread of argument is about so I may have this wrong but are you really saying that a system where you have absolutely no say in who gets to run the show is equal to one where you get the option every few years to vote the ruling party out of power? Granted, it's an imperfect system (albeit better than anything else anyone has tried at scale) but it does work to a reasonable degree compared to the alternatives.

At this point you normally get this reaction

Where Iâve failed as a teacher by @TeacherToolkit ...

Yes our system is not the best but it`s far better than that of the EU and it will work better when we are out ,whoever`s in power will no longer be able to say no we can`t do that it`s against EU rules whilst hiding behind the blue and gold curtains ....hopefully   

Edited by Long time lurking

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2 minutes ago, Long time lurking said:

At this point you normally get this reaction ,yes our system is not the best but it`s far better than that of the EU and it will work better when we are out ,whoever`s in power will no longer be able to say no we can`t do that it`s against EU rules whilst hiding behind the blue and gold curtains ....hopefully   

Where Iâve failed as a teacher by @TeacherToolkit ...

Well, it will give them one less excuse at least! 

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Just now, Long time lurking said:

xD

 

The troublesome ones are the people who are confronted with their own bullshit who just walk off mid-exchange as if that makes it alright. Presumably they still hold their erroneous beliefs and block out the rational arguments. These people really are the useful idiots of authoritarianism.

Examples in the video:

Women who says there were so many lies in the Brexit campaign and is asked to name one. Cannot, then says she doesn't want to talk anymore. Why posit an argument if you can't support it with evidence?

Man watching a speaker who states there is no mandate. Interviewer asks him if there was a vote and if this did not represent a mandate. Man says he does not want to be on TV, runs away. Is he afraid that if he doesn't agree with every word the speaker makes he will be ostracized? Why doesn't he just say I don't agree with that?

Why would people go to a political march then actively avoid political discourse? NPC wankers and cowards. 

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5 hours ago, Funn3r said:

Well that's more like it. I only half agree but at least it makes logical sense. The pro-brexit people in my own social circle just repeat platitudes about "sovereignty" and "taking back control from Brussels". As if Westminster scum somehow cared more for their interests than Brussels scum. 

It was the sovereignty issue that made me anti eu over 20 years ago. As an undergrad law student doing constitutional law 101, the shoe horning of eu legislative and judicial into the finely balanced and refined over the centuries English / British constitutional system of checks and balances made no sense at all. Sovereignty may only be a concept, but it is vitally important in terms of the nature of governance we experience.

I'm quite proud of having placed my first ever vote in a national election for the Referendum Party for this reason. (still not sure about Jimmy Goldsmith though, he came over very illuminati lizard people)

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7 minutes ago, Caravan Monster said:

It was the sovereignty issue that made me anti eu over 20 years ago. As an undergrad law student doing constitutional law 101, the shoe horning of eu legislative and judicial into the finely balanced and refined over the centuries English / British constitutional system of checks and balances made no sense at all. Sovereignty may only be a concept, but it is vitally important in terms of the nature of governance we experience.

I'm quite proud of having placed my first ever vote in a national election for the Referendum Party for this reason. (still not sure about Jimmy Goldsmith though, he came over very illuminati lizard people)

I think I've told this story elsewhere on DOSBODS but my own conversion to anti-EUism also came in law lectures. The lecturer explained the working of directives and supremacy of EU law over UK law and I asked a question about how could I go about opposing a piece of EU legislation I didn't like. He said "you can't" and moved straight on (I rather assume he was/is a leaver).

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9 minutes ago, TheBlueCat said:

I think I've told this story elsewhere on DOSBODS but my own conversion to anti-EUism also came in law lectures. The lecturer explained the working of directives and supremacy of EU law over UK law and I asked a question about how could I go about opposing a piece of EU legislation I didn't like. He said "you can't" and moved straight on (I rather assume he was/is a leaver).

There's a lot of fudging about British sovereignty, with pro-EUers trying to make out that either it is not affected by the EU, or it never existed in the first place so it doesn't matter.

I do recall though a long talk at a dinner party with a QC, very pro-EU. Eventually I asked him 'is it not the case that the authority of the Queen in Parliament is lower than that of the European Parliament?' He paused for a while and eventually replied 'it is'. 

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The EU is used to bypass national democracy, Tory minister admits

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-eu-is-used-to-bypass-national-democracy-home-office-minister-admits-a6680341.html

Governments use the European Union to bypass national democracy and pass laws that national parliaments would not accept, a Home Office minister has admitted.

Karen Bradley told a fringe meeting at Conservative party conference that other countries sometimes asked British MEPs to push legislation through the European Parliament so it could not be blocked by their own national legislatures.

 

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3 hours ago, billfunk said:

The troublesome ones are the people who are confronted with their own bullshit who just walk off mid-exchange as if that makes it alright. Presumably they still hold their erroneous beliefs and block out the rational arguments. These people really are the useful idiots of authoritarianism.

They were given a choice of two democratic options and chose one. Why should they be subjected to after the event rationalization? It is only the political failure to honour the result that is causing problems; not the result itself, or the actions of any individual voter. 

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