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steppensheep

Giving up milk

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I'm not actually especially convinced of any possible health benefits, but ever since my fridge problem four weeks ago, I haven't bought any milk (apart from occasional fermented milk products). It's a really freaky overnight turnaround, because I used to be the sort of person who would be searching the streets after midnight for a shop that sold fresh milk if I ran out. I haven't  missed it at all. In fact, I did experimentally try it again,and I don't think it really makes tea and coffee "taste" that much better. It does seem to make a bit smoother, I guess. In fact, I've realised that tea and coffee actually taste quite unpleasant.The main benefit is not having to go to the shops every other day.

Edited by steppensheep

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I realised I was lactose intolerant a few years back so started drinking Lactofree. As my wife seems unable to understand the carton is not recyclable in Cardiff, I was already slowing down my intake, then doing low-carb I stopped completely. I used to love it, but now I'm not bothered.

Real coffee is much better black IMO. My coffee intake has probably gone up since stopping milk!

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I have discovered that I'm sensitive to too much lactose. So continually topping myself up all day with milk in tea , coffee and other dairy stuff makes me belch. If I push it a bit more I end up with a very loose movement.

I now watch how much I have so I can still enjoy cheeeeeese safely.

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Well, it'll be a big can of worms, but there are some potential health issues with drinking cows milk, or at least - it doesn't have that many benefits. For me the main issue being that milk has  traces of antibiotics fed to the cows, and while it's a secondary consideration to many and possible trigger warning needs to be inserted, the dairy industry is also pretty cruel if you Google it.

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2 minutes ago, Chewing Grass said:

I now watch how much I have so I can still enjoy cheeeeeese safely.

There's very little lactose in cheese compared to milk I believe. The harder the cheese the less there is. I eat lots of cheese and I'm fine, whereas probably 20ml of milk will be noticeable to my guts.

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2 hours ago, Inoperational Bumblebee said:

There's very little lactose in cheese compared to milk I believe. The harder the cheese the less there is. I eat lots of cheese and I'm fine, whereas probably 20ml of milk will be noticeable to my guts.

I seem to be the opposite. No problem with milk but cheese doesn't seem to agree with me. 

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Tried giving up milk a few times, only have it in tea and 50:50 milk/water in my porridge but they both taste like crap without it. Guess I get through about 1/2 pint a day. I've made the decision that it's just one of life's necessities and damn the consequences. 

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3 minutes ago, gibbon said:

Tried giving up milk a few times, only have it in tea and 50:50 milk/water in my porridge but they both taste like crap without it. Guess I get through about 1/2 pint a day. I've made the decision that it's just one of life's necessities and damn the consequences. 

Stopping milk in tea is easy, all it took for me was to be on a project somewhere where there was no fridge and shops a long way away. Now tea with milk tastes rancid. Once you go black you'll never go back... ;)

 

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57 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Unless you have a particular problem with milk why would you even try to give it up?

It's a very natural food.

To be fair, it is absolutely natural for adult mammals to not be able to tolerate milk.

It is only that weird sub-population of Caucasians from Europe that manage to tolerate the stuff.

But, as someone who doesn't stomach gluten well, I'm happy to take advantage of my body's ability to digest anything that others find difficult.

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18 minutes ago, dgul said:

To be fair, it is absolutely natural for adult mammals to not be able to tolerate milk.

It is only that weird sub-population of Caucasians from Europe that manage to tolerate the stuff.

But, as someone who doesn't stomach gluten well, I'm happy to take advantage of my body's ability to digest anything that others find difficult.

There are actually plenty of populations that can drink milk in adulthood, Europeans are just the largest.

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1 minute ago, This Time said:

There are actually plenty of populations that can drink milk in adulthood, Europeans are just the largest.

Well, across all mammals there aren't that many.  Humans are an exception in general, and Europeans in specific.

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1 hour ago, dgul said:

To be fair, it is absolutely natural for adult mammals to not be able to tolerate milk.

It is only that weird sub-population of Caucasians from Europe that manage to tolerate the stuff.

But, as someone who doesn't stomach gluten well, I'm happy to take advantage of my body's ability to digest anything that others find difficult.

As far as I understand it, all humans used to naturally lose the ability to digest lactose in adulthood.

This makes perfect evolutionary sense. Maintaining a mechanism to do something there's no evolutionary advantage in doing doesn't happen over evolutionary time periods. Anything that diverts energy from survival is eventually snuffed out by the cold indifferent hand of natural selection. 

An obvious example of this is flightless birds. Flight evolved because it was useful, but maintaing the mechanisms for it requires selection pressure. Take that away and you get ground dwelling birds who can't fly toute suite.

Now, back to milk drinking.

You need enzymes to digest milk as a baby, because that's all you've got to eat.

In prehistoric times it simply wouldn't have been available to adults (well, not in a way that would help evolutionary fitness). So you lose the capacity to tolerate it as an adult.

Then - BANG! - with domestication of animals milk becomes available to adults. 

In that environment an adaptation to tolerate milk in adulthood is selected for. And milk drinking in adulthood becomes common.

That tells me evolution says drink milk if you can get it!

:Beer:

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, SpectrumFX said:

As far as I understand it, all humans used to naturally lose the ability to digest lactose in adulthood.

This makes perfect evolutionary sense. Maintaining a mechanism to do something there's no evolutionary advantage in doing doesn't happen over evolutionary time periods. Anything that diverts energy from survival is eventually snuffed out by the cold indifferent hand of natural selection. 

An obvious example of this is flightless birds. Flight evolved because it was useful, but maintaing the mechanisms for it requires selection pressure. Take that away and you get ground dwelling birds who can't fly toute suite.

Now, back to milk drinking.

You need enzymes to digest milk as a baby, because that's all you've got to eat.

In prehistoric times it simply wouldn't have been available to adults (well, not in a way that would help evolutionary fitness). So you lose the capacity to tolerate it as an adult.

Then - BANG! - with domestication of animals milk becomes available to adults. 

In that environment an adaptation to tolerate milk in adulthood is selected for. And milk drinking in adulthood becomes common.

That tells me evolution says drink milk if you can get it!

:Beer:

It was meant to have been highly selective during famines in northish Europe -- Milk would sour too quickly anyway in the hot bits, so it was only in specific latitudes that fresh milk would be around for long enough to make a difference.  Only the humans that could tolerate the milk got the nourishment in the famine -- the ones without tolerance would die...  So that gene (or whatever) was rapidly spread into the community.

[Or it might have been because of the aliens.  Jury's still out on it.]

Might as well put this up:

 

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2 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

Unless you have a particular problem with milk why would you even try to give it up?

It's a very natural food.

If you're a calf, yes.

I dont really like milk and would never just drink the filthy stuff. As it is I have to shut my mind to the idea that Im consuming another animals breast milk, but although I drink my coffee black I have a bit in tea as it tastes too bitter without, and I eat muesli with Greek yoghurt and I like my cheese too.

As an aside, did you see that headline the other day that said eating cheese had ben shown to significantly reduce risk of heart disease? Another thing I had to shut my mind to was the thought of my occluded coronary arteries due to all the cheese I eat, so I was made up to read this article https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/886537/health-cheese-fights-heart-disease-stroke-cholesterol-boost

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2 minutes ago, Mirror Mirror said:

If you're a calf, yes.

I dont really like milk and would never just drink the filthy stuff. As it is I have to shut my mind to the idea that Im consuming another animals breast milk, but although I drink my coffee black I have a bit in tea as it tastes too bitter without, and I eat muesli with Greek yoghurt and I like my cheese too.

As an aside, did you see that headline the other day that said eating cheese had ben shown to significantly reduce risk of heart disease? Another thing I had to shut my mind to was the thought of my occluded coronary arteries due to all the cheese I eat, so I was made up to read this article https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/886537/health-cheese-fights-heart-disease-stroke-cholesterol-boost

It's carbs that clog your arteries and cause heart disease.

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1 hour ago, SpectrumFX said:

As far as I understand it, all humans used to naturally lose the ability to digest lactose in adulthood.

This makes perfect evolutionary sense. Maintaining a mechanism to do something there's no evolutionary advantage in doing doesn't happen over evolutionary time periods. Anything that diverts energy from survival is eventually snuffed out by the cold indifferent hand of natural selection. 

An obvious example of this is flightless birds. Flight evolved because it was useful, but maintaing the mechanisms for it requires selection pressure. Take that away and you get ground dwelling birds who can't fly toute suite.

Now, back to milk drinking.

You need enzymes to digest milk as a baby, because that's all you've got to eat.

In prehistoric times it simply wouldn't have been available to adults (well, not in a way that would help evolutionary fitness). So you lose the capacity to tolerate it as an adult.

Then - BANG! - with domestication of animals milk becomes available to adults. 

In that environment an adaptation to tolerate milk in adulthood is selected for. And milk drinking in adulthood becomes common.

That tells me evolution says drink milk if you can get it!

:Beer:

 

 

 

By that logic this means I should also consume lager and various drugs on a daily basis as they appear to cause me no bother. I doubt I would last long though. :Jumping:

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1 hour ago, ccc said:

By that logic this means I should also consume lager and various drugs on a daily basis as they appear to cause me no bother. I doubt I would last long though. :Jumping:

If you cime from a population that has consumed those things in quantity for millennia, and thrived, then yes. Carry on.

xD

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I looked into this kinda thing a wee while ago, still got these two tabs open on my phone :

and this refutation or debunking (or whatever it would be called) of the above video :

https://www.theodysseyonline.com/response-erin-janus-dairy-fcking-scary

 

I've had a taste of a few fake milks, I'm keen on milk and dairy products but we are trying our youngest out with non cow milk just now. Best so far has been Oatly, barely any phytoestrogen and available in Tesco and bizarrely Ikea, other places too. You can taste the oats a bit, but its quite pleasant, available in fresh, long life, organic and chocolate variations.

213816-oatly-oat-drink-with-calcium.jpg

I'm still a big fan of milk though.

 

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1 hour ago, ccc said:

By that logic this means I should also consume lager and various drugs on a daily basis as they appear to cause me no bother. I doubt I would last long though. :Jumping:

Keith Richards has survived so far xD

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