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SpectrumFX

Smoking ban cannot be enforced in jails, UK supreme court rules

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Turns out that the smoking ban doesn't apply to prisons, or to any crown premises.

Good news for lags, and royals alike.

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/19/jails-exempt-smoking-ban-uk-supreme-court-rules?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true

A prisoner suffering from poor health has lost his attempt to enforce the smoking ban in English and Welsh jails after the supreme court ruled that crown premises are effectively exempt from the enforcement of health regulations.

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6 minutes ago, sarahbell said:

so employees rights are gone?

No. Everybody has the rights that the legislation gave them.

It just didn't give anybody any rights on crown premises.

I don't believe that this would stop prisons from banning smoking if they wanted to. It would just be a prison rule, enforced by the prison, rather than something that the council could turn up and fine them for.

Edited by SpectrumFX

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8 minutes ago, SpectrumFX said:

No. Everybody has the rights that the legislation gave them.

It just didn't give anybody any rights on crown premises.

I don't believe that this would stop prisons from banning smoking if they wanted to. It would just be a prison rule, enforced by the prison, rather than something that the council could turn up and fine them for.

so staff could smoke too?

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Smoking is the only thing that stops jail riots.  Every prisoner's day revolves around tobacco and drugs.  Without it their lives would have no purpose.  It is the currency, the reason for getting up on a morning.  It will never be banned and Prison Officers know it.  They don't want it outlawed.

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2 minutes ago, Ina said:

Smoking is the only thing that stops jail riots.  Every prisoner's day revolves around tobacco and drugs.  Without it their lives would have no purpose.  It is the currency, the reason for getting up on a morning.  It will never be banned and Prison Officers know it.  They don't want it outlawed.

no smoking wings?

first to sue for being allowed to smoke when they get cancer?

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5 minutes ago, sarahbell said:

so staff could smoke too?

They wouldn't be breaking the smoking ban.

If the prison made it part of their terms and conditions that they couldn't smoke, then i suppose that they'd be risking their job. But they wouldn't be breaking the law.

My employer has banned smoking in all of our grounds. So you can't smoke anywhere. If I smoke in the office, then I'm breaking the law. If I smoke in the car park, then I'm breaking their rules, but not the law.

Edited by SpectrumFX

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18 minutes ago, Ina said:

Smoking is the only thing that stops jail riots.  Every prisoner's day revolves around tobacco and drugs.  Without it their lives would have no purpose.  It is the currency, the reason for getting up on a morning.  It will never be banned and Prison Officers know it.  They don't want it outlawed.

jail might more of a punishment if it was banned

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I've visited friends in rehab.  Clouds in Wiltshire is the current favourite.  It never ceases to amaze me how drugs and alcohol are deemed evil and yet smoking is actively encouraged.  Smoking breaks every hour. Smoking shelters around the grounds.  Cross addiction.  Yet to know anyone get through rehab without smoking a lot.  It's bizarre.  Had a friend booted out for taking co codamol.

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1 minute ago, Ina said:

I've visited friends in rehab.  Clouds in Wiltshire is the current favourite.  It never ceases to amaze me how drugs and alcohol are deemed evil and yet smoking is actively encouraged.  Smoking breaks every hour. Smoking shelters around the grounds.  Cross addiction.  Yet to know anyone get through rehab without smoking a lot.  It's bizarre.  Had a friend booted out for taking co codamol.

I came across many people in Alcoholics Anonymous who had conquered their booze addiction but had been unsuccessful in quitting smoking. Some people even started smoking when they were quitting.

One night there was discussion about addictions that are easier/harder to break. The general consensus was heroin-easier, cannabis- easier, tranquillisers (mainly Valium)-easier, alcohol-harder, smoking-the hardest of all.

 

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19 minutes ago, Economic Exile said:

I came across many people in Alcoholics Anonymous who had conquered their booze addiction but had been unsuccessful in quitting smoking. Some people even started smoking when they were quitting.

One night there was discussion about addictions that are easier/harder to break. The general consensus was heroin-easier, cannabis- easier, tranquillisers (mainly Valium)-easier, alcohol-harder, smoking-the hardest of all.

 

i was a 50 a day person but i stoped overnight by vapeing,so its sort of swaping one adiction for another,ive not tried to stop vapeing yet has its so cheap.2 bottles of juice a week is 2 quid from poundland and a quid a week for another coil head.

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Just now, stokiescum said:

i was a 50 a day person but i stoped overnight by vapeing,so its sort of swaping one adiction for another,ive not tried to stop vapeing yet has its so cheap.2 bottles of juice a week is 2 quid from poundland and a quid a week for another coil head.

I’m still on roll ups and don’t want to stop smoking. The only thing that’ll make me transfer to vaping is if I develop breathing problems or shortness of breath.

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18 minutes ago, Economic Exile said:

I’m still on roll ups and don’t want to stop smoking. The only thing that’ll make me transfer to vaping is if I develop breathing problems or shortness of breath.

i was smokeing 2 x 50g every 8 days i didnt think vapeing would work and was just a fad i realy did smoke a lot,i was somewhat surprised that a cheap 8 quid vape would stop me smokeing instantly.ive got 5 now all the same models all around 8 quid from amazon.its the time i save rolling em that impreses me the most.

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2 minutes ago, stokiescum said:

i was smokeing 2 x 50g every 8 days i didnt think vapeing would work and was just a fad i realy did smoke a lot,i was somewhat surprised that a cheap 8 quid vape would stop me smokeing instantly.ive got 5 now all the same models all around 8 quid from amazon.its the time i save rolling em that impreses me the most.

Oh I love rolling them with my rolling tin. All part of the ritual for me!

Good for you though converting to vaping and saving a lot of money.

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8 minutes ago, Economic Exile said:

Oh I love rolling them with my rolling tin. All part of the ritual for me!

Good for you though converting to vaping and saving a lot of money.

And there was me thinking you were rolling them on your dusky thighs.

Another illusion shattered.

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1 hour ago, Ina said:

Smoking is the only thing that stops jail riots.  Every prisoner's day revolves around tobacco and drugs.  Without it their lives would have no purpose.  It is the currency, the reason for getting up on a morning.  It will never be banned and Prison Officers know it.  They don't want it outlawed.

North Wales has a no smoking prison.

Apparently they built the inside to close to the outside.

So people throw things to prisoners over the wall.

Saves messing about flying drone drops.

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7 minutes ago, Bedrag Justesen said:

North Wales has a no smoking prison.

Apparently they built the inside to close to the outside.

So people throw things to prisoners over the wall.

Saves messing about flying drone drops.

I think I may have just found a new career for my son. The ability to hit a small object 170 yards with a seven iron to an accuracy of about 5 feet could be a real winner.

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1 hour ago, Economic Exile said:

I came across many people in Alcoholics Anonymous who had conquered their booze addiction but had been unsuccessful in quitting smoking. Some people even started smoking when they were quitting.

One night there was discussion about addictions that are easier/harder to break. The general consensus was heroin-easier, cannabis- easier, tranquillisers (mainly Valium)-easier, alcohol-harder, smoking-the hardest of all.

 

Interesting.

That rather suggests the common belief that once people get addicted to Class A drugs it is very hard to quit does not really hold up. It also tends to reflect the evidence from the Vietnam war where many US combat troops were heavy drug users (unsurprisingly) in the war zone but most quit pretty soon after they returned home. Many of my older family smoked for England (paying heroic amounts of tax in the process and dying before they became a burden on the Exchequer) but even though I used to enjoy the odd fag with a pint years ago I never really got the habit. I was quite proud though of my ability to roll a cigarette one handed. Though I know smoking is not great for your health I really don't like the way smokers are treated as pariahs. The ritual sharing of a packet of fags used to be a small piece of communal humanity in a pretty inhumane world. I always feel sorry for the brotherhood and sisterhood of smoking exiled to the bike sheds where I work.

Edited by Virgil Caine

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7 minutes ago, Bedrag Justesen said:

If it's anything like at school there could be more to it than smoking.

Agreed. When I did smoke, I had way more success with the ladies outside the pub/club/party than I ever did inside.

 

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