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Frank Hovis

How easy to convert a pub into a house?

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Okay I don't know the market in south Somerset but I followed a link from a newspaper story about it closing to this pub for sale for £275k:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/commercial-property-for-sale/property-64472597.html

It's freehold, three bedrooms, in a village, has a huge garden which includes a campsite, just under two acres.  It seems an absolute steal for £275k.

All I can think is that it's losing money as a pub, so not worth much in that usage, and it would be very hard to get planning permission to convert it to residential.  Although I didn't think that was the case.  The only downside is that it notes in the linked brochure that it's Grade II listed, yes that's a bad thing but not horrendous like Grade 1 or 1 star.

I'm not looking to buy it myself; just surprised that it appears to be so cheap.

Accommodat

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11 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

Maybe because the area is cheap?

Land is not a great asset unless you want a horse. Its main use is to provide a privacy break from everyone else.

Like this one http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-46497204.html

 

Fair points both!

I suppose I was comparing to some mentally priced stuff down here *=(Cornwall) where you see flats, sorry luxury apartments, commanding over three times that.

I like the idea of land but would have to come up with some idea of what I wante dto do with it or it would just become another maintenance chore.

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Just now, Frank Hovis said:

Fair points both!

I suppose I was comparing to some mentally priced stuff down here *=(Cornwall) where you see flats, sorry luxury apartments, commanding over three times that.

I like the idea of land but would have to come up with some idea of what I wante dto do with it or it would just become another maintenance chore.

Yes-  I think we have become blinded. Even saying £300k is cheap suggests that we are out of touch with reality.

I think I would like woodland if anything.

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I think it's rather than the area was cheap, as per CP's linked property, rather than the pub itself being particularly cheap as I was assuming.

So even if you could easily convert it to resdiential it's not going to leap in price and the Grade II listing is always going to mean that maintenance is expensive.

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AFAIK, you have to convince the council that the pub is totally unviable...

As for South Petherton...Know it very well...Quite well to do...but I think its quite snobby.  That house is on on the old A303, which is still very busy.  Probably about a mile from the village proper...There's a good Indian Restaurant (so I've been told) about a mile up the road, just outside Lopen..

Edited by Dave Beans

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It is £275k + VAT, so a bit more expensive than you think.

It is a going concern -- it is priced at the value of the business (and the potential for expansion), not the property value (this isn't strictly true as the property has a residual value no matter what, but it is a pretty good start).

It doesn't seem to have had any problems trading -- it would take years of trading losses to convince planners that it is sufficiently hopeless as a pub to warrant change of use to residential.

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14 hours ago, dgul said:

It doesn't seem to have had any problems trading -- it would take years of trading losses to convince planners that it is sufficiently hopeless as a pub to warrant change of use to residential.

A few good punch ups and loss of licence should do the trick.

I think when you get it, a Dosbods get together may well be in order / of assistance. Especially if that hot Mrs XYY turns up in her finery.

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12 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

A few good punch ups and loss of licence should do the trick.

I think when you get it, a Dosbods get together may well be in order / of assistance. Especially if that hot Mrs XYY turns up in her finery.

A plan with no setbacks at all. :Passusabeer:

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27 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

I don't know why but fight club comes to mind. My money is on Mrs.

 

 

 

Edited by JFK
wrong frigging link

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On 4/12/2017 at 14:34, Frank Hovis said:

Okay I don't know the market in south Somerset but I followed a link from a newspaper story about it closing to this pub for sale for £275k:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/commercial-property-for-sale/property-64472597.html

It's freehold, three bedrooms, in a village, has a huge garden which includes a campsite, just under two acres.  It seems an absolute steal for £275k.

All I can think is that it's losing money as a pub, so not worth much in that usage, and it would be very hard to get planning permission to convert it to residential.  Although I didn't think that was the case.  The only downside is that it notes in the linked brochure that it's Grade II listed, yes that's a bad thing but not horrendous like Grade 1 or 1 star.

I'm not looking to buy it myself; just surprised that it appears to be so cheap.

Accommodat

There must be a bit of risk in not getting approval for change of use but in my own area a little further north it does not seem to be a problem and has become a common thing here. I think they have demonstrate that it is no longer economically viable supposedly but I guess this pretty easy call for pubs nowadays. Cost of conversion would be a problem for some but most are taken by developers who often not only convert the pub into flats but also build in the grounds in some cases I have seen.

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On 12/04/2017 at 21:34, Frank Hovis said:

Okay I don't know the market in south Somerset but I followed a link from a newspaper story about it closing to this pub for sale for £275k:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/commercial-property-for-sale/property-64472597.html

It's freehold, three bedrooms, in a village, has a huge garden which includes a campsite, just under two acres.  It seems an absolute steal for £275k.

All I can think is that it's losing money as a pub, so not worth much in that usage, and it would be very hard to get planning permission to convert it to residential.  Although I didn't think that was the case.  The only downside is that it notes in the linked brochure that it's Grade II listed, yes that's a bad thing but not horrendous like Grade 1 or 1 star.

I'm not looking to buy it myself; just surprised that it appears to be so cheap.

Accommodat

Hard work. I remember a similar case in Great Massingham (Norfolk) 15 years ago. The application had all the half a pint a week villagers out in force.

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54 minutes ago, MrPin said:

What is there to convert? A house with a big bar and beergarden would be smashing. It could always be closed for renovation all the time.

Fly in that ointment - Business rates.

 

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6 minutes ago, Green Devil said:

Doesnt it switch to 0% discounted band after a year of no trading?

Think this was all changed - short term relief when initially empty and then after that full rates. Besides it would technically be occupied.

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Missed this thread, but have some experience with it. Very difficult in short. I follow these kinds of things as I have an interest in conservation and building consent.

A pub near me managed to do it, went to appeal and took about 2 years IIRC. They did the work anyway, and were living there, and managed to get retrospective permission only after having to prove the pub would never be viable. Anyone planning to do this will come up against various charities and organisations with clout - CAMRA, all these heritage preservation quangos, the local community, parish council, etc. The only ones who didn't object were the other pub in the village as they wanted to be the only licensed premises IIRC...

To prove viability you have to show that there is no demand for the pub and likely never will be, i.e. poor location, no car park, or lack of services. Plus years of loss making already. Nowadays many buildings can be turned into micropubs and the local councils particularly round here are meant to be tolerating/encouraging them...

If you look at the planning history for "The Highwaymen" in Horsmonden on the Tunbridge Wells planning portal website, you can see how difficult it got. This was a pub with absolutely no parking, a history of violence (the Millennium Dome heist pikeys planned it all there apparently), and was always empty.

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You now have to look on any planning futures things they have for the area.

https://www.greatermanchester-ca.gov.uk/GMSF
This one marks off huge areas of greenbelt for building on. Whether it all ends up being built on is another matter, but recently two properties in my area (ish) that have come up are right next to housing development land. Which defeats the object of buying a house with fields around it.

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On 18/04/2017 at 22:58, man o' the year said:

There must be a bit of risk in not getting approval for change of use but in my own area a little further north it does not seem to be a problem and has become a common thing here. I think they have demonstrate that it is no longer economically viable supposedly but I guess this pretty easy call for pubs nowadays. Cost of conversion would be a problem for some but most are taken by developers who often not only convert the pub into flats but also build in the grounds in some cases I have seen.

Nearest pub to me got change of use to residential. There's a sort of annexe thing built in the garden where there used to be a shed, local planning policy seems to be to jam as many buildings as possible within old village boundaries to make things more crowded and awkward. This is in Northamptonshire, where the council planning dept has a bit of a whiff about it and the building conservation dept are a nightmare of over the top adherence to the rule book, so in villages developers with 'connections' seem to be able to get things done but locals trying to carry out legitimate improvements face an uphill battle.

On the subject of pubs, a local family converted their house into a pub which has been going for a few years now and is by all accounts a success. No rent or restrictive lease terms appears to be the secret of their success. Still have to be nuts to want to run a pub for a living though.

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It's the blessed green belt - fuck up and overdevelop existing locations to pander to it. Same with the whole brown field policy - basically incentivise the shutting down of commercial/industrial use businesses to free up the only land available for house building - can't help but think that was the policy all along, wonder how many businesses have been shipped abroad, the planning gains paying for it.

 

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18 hours ago, sarahbell said:

You now have to look on any planning futures things they have for the area.

https://www.greatermanchester-ca.gov.uk/GMSF
This one marks off huge areas of greenbelt for building on. Whether it all ends up being built on is another matter, but recently two properties in my area (ish) that have come up are right next to housing development land. Which defeats the object of buying a house with fields around it.

Solicitor is meant to check all this for you.

 

Afriend bought a house next to a planned slavebox mega development, luckily it was found to be a sacred burial ground so it was canned.... He got the house quite cheap, so it can sometimes work the other way (but rarely).

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