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Green Devil

London flight

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3 minutes ago, Green Devil said:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/dec/29/londoners-leaving-capital-for-brighton-birmingham-and-bristol

Its makes no mention of the number of people coming to London from abroad. When will they realise that increasing population is bad for the country?

 

Good look in moving to Birmingham. Itll be like a home from home.

Just a normal market economy.

The unproductive moving out of an expensive area, allowing the more productive to move in ....

Im sure thats how it works.

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300,000 Londoners a year leaving London!  The place will be empty in 20 years.

Or maybe they're not actually 'Jellied Eels' Londoners, but just the people that went there 5-10 years ago in their 20s and now are leaving to start a family.  This has always happened (and happens in all major UK cities), and it is only 15% up in a decade because 15% more people were going there in 2007 compared with 1997.

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6 minutes ago, dgul said:

300,000 Londoners a year leaving London!  The place will be empty in 20 years.

Or maybe they're not actually 'Jellied Eels' Londoners, but just the people that went there 5-10 years ago in their 20s and now are leaving to start a family.  This has always happened (and happens in all major UK cities), and it is only 15% up in a decade because 15% more people were going there in 2007 compared with 1997.

Exactly.

It's always been fairly common because London has the good jobs to start your career after college then when you get to a decent level you don't have to stay in London so don't; you move somewhere nicer.

I did just this, so do a lot of people.

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15 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Exactly.

It's always been fairly common because London has the good jobs to start your career after college then when you get to a decent level you don't have to stay in London so don't; you move somewhere nicer.

I did just this, so do a lot of people.

No.

We need to pay more benefit to people to get them to stay in London ...

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I know a lot of people who did the London 20-30 kids elsewhere route.  Problem is that I am not sure the next generation of 20 year olds are looking to move to London now - it is much harder and more expensive than it was for my generation, plus more dangerous for single women in many areas.

London is fucked.

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15 minutes ago, wherebee said:

I know a lot of people who did the London 20-30 kids elsewhere route.  Problem is that I am not sure the next generation of 20 year olds are looking to move to London now - it is much harder and more expensive than it was for my generation, plus more dangerous for single women in many areas.

London is fucked.

There is also the issue that when past generations upped sticks, they had normally bought in London and so had a nice little nest egg to move with. 

With generation rent, this will be much harder. They will be starting out in the provincial town with nothing much. 

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9 minutes ago, One percent said:

There is also the issue that when past generations upped sticks, they had normally bought in London and so had a nice little nest egg to move with. 

With generation rent, this will be much harder. They will be starting out in the provincial town with nothing much. 

And thus have to consider moving further afield to provide a decent start for their little ones. 

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27 minutes ago, One percent said:

There is also the issue that when past generations upped sticks, they had normally bought in London and so had a nice little nest egg to move with. 

With generation rent, this will be much harder. They will be starting out in the provincial town with nothing much. 

Thats the pitch ive heard - cashing out with london equity.

When you look at the fugures, that did not happen til late 80s - London was shrinking from 40s to early 80s.

Then SE property crashed 89-95.

Only since the early 00s, amd then if youd bought.

Pretty much everyone under 40, living in London, is renting.

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Didn't want to start a new thread so I thought I'd put my anecdote (long rant) in here. A particular shout out to some nutjob in Aldgate East who decided to wander onto the tracks to retrieve her mobile phone, paralysing 4 underground lines during rush hour.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/tube-delays-trespasser-at-aldgate-east-causes-chaos-on-four-major-london-underground-lines-a3743996.html%3Famp

Flew back into the UK yesterday from the Czech Republic. Decided to fly into London City for two reasons. 

1) Never used City airport before. 

2) The transport system in this country is so fucked up that it's cheaper (and takes the same time) for me to get to Hull from London than from Manchester, despite being twice as far away. 

Woke up to a good 20cm of snow. Snow ploughs had been out. No problems getting the bus to Prague, or the nice modern(ish) tube across Prague to the airport (well, one day the tube might be extended all the way to the airport - small bus journey at the other end).

So firstly, my flight was delayed by an hour or so due to a technical fault on the plane. No problems with that. Better safe than sorry. Only problem was my 3:45 arrival became a 5pm arrival. Great, London rush hour with two suitcases and a 1-year-old. 

Plan A - Take the DLR to West Ham and then Hammersmith and City to Kings Cross, avoiding all the most congested bits of the city. 

Leaving the airport I couldn't help feeling I was witnessing every non-dom in the country flying "home". 

So the DLR is pretty packed but make it on with two suitcases and toddler in carrier. Get out at West Ham, traverse the station via 3 lifts and arrive at the Hammersmith and City platform. Make mental note that white flight isn't happening here, it's been completed. 

Sit down for 20 minutes waiting for relevant train, district line train sat in station all the while. Finally get some info about "minor" delays. Think "fuck that", and plan an alternative route to Kings Cross. 

Only real option appears to be Jubilee line to London Bridge (via Canary Wharf) and then Northern line to Kings Cross (via Bank). 

Traverse back across West Ham via 3 more lifts, get on a very quiet Jubilee train and head for London Bridge. Tube fills to capacity at Canary Wharf (so this is where the white folk hang out) but just about manage to get out at London Bridge.  

Find sign that says London Bridge lift not in use (fucking terrific). Say fuck it and take massive suitcases on the escalator. Get space in the end of one carriage. Proceed to get crushed to death at all 5 stops on Northern line. Just about get out at Kings Cross. 

Luckily I had 4 hours contingency time for cheap train home. Made it with 90 minutes to spare. 

To cap it off, having been in contact with half of Londoners yesterday, one of the three of us is almost certain to have contracted one of the lurgies going around. 

 

TL:DR - fuck London. Anyone who wants to deal with that shit on a daily basis is welcome to it. 

 

Edit to add: I feel that the screenwriter for Sliding Doors was probably inspired by a similar ordeal. 

Edited by The Generation Game

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6 minutes ago, The Generation Game said:

Didn't want to start a new thread so I thought I'd put my anecdote (long rant) in here. A particular shout out to some nutjob in Aldgate East who decided to wander onto the tracks to retrieve her mobile phone, paralysing 4 underground lines during rush hour.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/tube-delays-trespasser-at-aldgate-east-causes-chaos-on-four-major-london-underground-lines-a3743996.html%3Famp

Flew back into the UK yesterday from the Czech Republic. Decided to fly into London City for two reasons. 

1) Never used City airport before. 

2) The transport system in this country is so fucked up that it's cheaper (and takes the same time) for me to get to Hull from London than from Manchester, despite being twice as far away. 

Woke up to a good 20cm of snow. Snow ploughs had been out. No problems getting the bus to Prague, or the nice modern(ish) tube across Prague to the airport (well, one day the tube might be extended all the way to the airport - small bus journey at the other end).

So firstly, my flight was delayed by an hour or so due to a technical fault on the plane. No problems with that. Better safe than sorry. Only problem was my 3:45 arrival became a 5pm arrival. Great, London rush hour with two suitcases and a 1-year-old. 

Plan A - Take the DLR to West Ham and then Hammersmith and City to Kings Cross, avoiding all the most congested bits of the city. 

Leaving the airport I couldn't help feeling I was witnessing every non-dom in the country flying "home". 

So the DLR is pretty packed but make it on with two suitcases and toddler in carrier. Get out at West Ham, traverse the station via 3 lifts and arrive at the Hammersmith and City platform. Make mental note that white flight isn't happening here, it's been completed. 

Sit down for 20 minutes waiting for relevant train, district line train sat in station all the while. Finally get some info about "minor" delays. Think "fuck that", and plan an alternative route to Kings Cross. 

Only real option appears to be Jubilee line to London Bridge (via Canary Wharf) and then Northern line to Kings Cross (via Bank). 

Traverse back across West Ham via 3 more lifts, get on a very quiet Jubilee train and head for London Bridge. Tube fills to capacity at Canary Wharf (so this is where the white folk hang out) but just about manage to get out at London Bridge.  

Find sign that says London Bridge lift not in use (fucking terrific). Say fuck it and take massive suitcases on the escalator. Get space in the end of one carriage. Proceed to get crushed to death at all 5 stops on Northern line. Just about get out at Kings Cross. 

Luckily I had 4 hours contingency time for cheap train home. Made it with 90 minutes to spare. 

To cap it off, having been in contact with half of Londoners yesterday, one of the three of us is almost certain to have contracted one of the lurgies going around. 

 

TL:DR - fuck London. Anyone who wants to deal with that shit on a daily basis is welcome to it. 

It really is hell on earth. 

An interesting observation I've made is that in rush hour, into work, the vast, and I mean vast, majority of those on public transport are white. 

I'll leave it to dosbodders to work out what this is telling us. o.O

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4 minutes ago, One percent said:

It really is hell on earth. 

An interesting observation I've made is that in rush hour, into work, the vast, and I mean vast, majority of those on public transport are white. 

I'll leave it to dosbodders to work out what this is telling us. o.O

 

That observation could be made in lots of UK cities and towns now IMPO.

I am about to try to go into Swansea city centre. It is staggering the number of Middle Eastern & Africa men sat outside the various coffee places during the day in Swansea. Smoking whatever it is they smoke, talking loudly in whatever language they speak and some of them making some threatening eye contact - clearly they have made some of those coffee places their territory.

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The odd thing is that when you commute into London, you sort of 'accept this'. That our public transport system is crap. That the tube is running at well over capacity so much of the time. Or, if driving, that there are simply way too many people in the South East and the M25 and other key routes are wholly inadequate at moving enough volume. In both cases just one tiny problem can and often does have severe consequences and knock-on effects.

Watching the sight of people trying to board the Victoria Line at Victoria in the rush hour is something to behold, as is the lack of platform doors - it's actually seriously dangerous and it's a miracle that more aren't killed (Victoria used to the station with the greatest number of deaths from people either jumping or falling in front of trains).

Just way too many people.

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11 minutes ago, DTMark said:

The odd thing is that when you commute into London, you sort of 'accept this'. That our public transport system is crap. That the tube is running at well over capacity so much of the time. Or, if driving, that there are simply way too many people in the South East and the M25 and other key routes are wholly inadequate at moving enough volume. In both cases just one tiny problem can and often does have severe consequences and knock-on effects.

Watching the sight of people trying to board the Victoria Line at Victoria in the rush hour is something to behold, as is the lack of platform doors - it's actually seriously dangerous and it's a miracle that more aren't killed (Victoria used to the station with the greatest number of deaths from people either jumping or falling in front of trains).

Just way too many people.

To add to this.  We are second stop from the end of an urban train line. For years and I'm talking over 20 years, I could always get a seat and then the train filled up as he hit the next two stops.

there has been a massive building programme round by us   Now, Im lucky to get on the train, never mind a seat. 

There is yet another massive loads of flats being built. God knows what is going to happen to the creaking local train.  I'm just glad I don't live a station further in. 

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26 minutes ago, One percent said:

It really is hell on earth. 

An interesting observation I've made is that in rush hour, into work, the vast, and I mean vast, majority of those on public transport are white. 

I'll leave it to dosbodders to work out what this is telling us. o.O

Without wanting to sound all 'Mr Liberal' there probably are a few more reasons for this other than the immediate one which springs to mind, which is that the darker folk don't work. 

For instance, London buses by contrast always seem to have mostly black passengers. Probably because they're a bit cheaper and if you're discrete you can sometimes get on without paying, which is more difficult on the tube. They may also be doing jobs like night shift work that means they have to go to work when the tube doesn't run. 

Also, the darker folks are less likely to commute; why travel half way across London if you're a cleaner, you can probably get something within walking distance. If you work in a mobile phone unlocking shop (as most Levantine young men seem to) you probably sleep  under the counter or in the stock room or a shed in the yard, so again, no need to commute. 

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32 minutes ago, One percent said:

It really is hell on earth. 

An interesting observation I've made is that in rush hour, into work, the vast, and I mean vast, majority of those on public transport are white. 

I'll leave it to dosbodders to work out what this is telling us. o.O

I totally agree. And... interestingly, when you take the off peak trains into and around London (I often have to travel up there from the essex burbs for meetings), they are still packed out. But not with whites. Or even speaking English. And I assure you people travelling between Romford and Stratford are not tourists, unless the word has acquired a strange new meaning. It used to be the trains were empty late morning/early afternoon.

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On 12/31/2017 at 11:18, spygirl said:

Wow.

This bit covers so many different threads on here:

'“I needed the peace. In London you don’t get time to switch off”

Nichola Naylon swapped her hectic London life for the serenity of the Llyn peninsula in North Wales three years ago. A decade in the capital had taken its toll, financially and emotionally, [she has an STD and an overdrawn credit card] so when a new job didn’t work out [she was sacked] she decided to up sticks and move north.[move home to mum]

“I wanted a complete break and a complete change of scenery. [ex BF has issued a stalking notice] I needed the peace and the quiet.[sober up] Looking back I think I was probably classed as depressed,” [drunk] she said.

Naylon, 37, runs her own pottery business [pisses around making no money] from a studio near Pwllheli, a pretty coastal market town in north-west Wales. She shares a six-bedroom house with her mum, [lives in her mums house] while renting out the flat she owns in Bow, east London, [rented to a mozzer making bombs, claiming HB] to supplement her income. [this is her only income]

The social scene and variety of restaurants are the only things she misses in London but, she said, it was difficult to “maintain that life and existing” on her £27,000 salary. [shes too old, too poor, ex BF has run off with someone 10 years younger[ “London does have all those amazing things but I wasn’t on an amazing wage.[no, Im surpised you bought a flat, Mum again?] You get up, go to work [yeah, wlecome to a mans world] , you’re on ridiculously busy tubes, in a ridiculously hectic city and you don’t get time to switch your mind off and step back and realise what’s happening and where your life’s going. Those 10 years can pass by in a whirlwind.”  [too choosey, ran out of men]

 

That is one of the funniest posts I have read for a long time!

Guardian articles are so easy to 'translate' aren't they...

In any sane era of human existence, she would have stayed in Pwllheli, married a decent but slightly dull Welshman and had two or three children  and lived in moderate comfort. Instead she had to live the dream and pretend to have a career and a life out of Sex in the City. 

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Oh so apt, but misses out two facts i.e. what is poor Nichola's STD and what anti-depressants she is/was hooked on.

Seen loads of these types round pwllheli over tge years, her mother probably did the same thing 25 years ago, before that is was ex London hippies.

They always push theae stories like it is a revelation.

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For a while I thought you were one your own with 2 suitcases and a one yr old GG!I was going to say you deserve a medal as didn't know how all that would have been possible, using the escalators etc! But assume now you were with our OH?

Still must have been hard and not very pleasant. Hope  your immune systems are at full throttle to fend off all the germs you must have inhaled on the journey! 

I do feel sorry when I see someone in the underground whose suitcase wheels have fallen off or whose bag has split open! It's brutal in there if you can't keep up. Like in "Rollerball"? (But I haven't see that film, so just guessing!) 

I have travelled (by air, long haul with connections) with 3 small kids (plus piles of luggage) many yrs ago and always dreaded it. But never did the London underground with them! (I know my limits!)

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1 hour ago, whocares said:

For a while I thought you were one your own with 2 suitcases and a one yr old GG!I was going to say you deserve a medal as didn't know how all that would have been possible, using the escalators etc! But assume now you were with our OH?

Still must have been hard and not very pleasant. Hope  your immune systems are at full throttle to fend off all the germs you must have inhaled on the journey! 

I do feel sorry when I see someone in the underground whose suitcase wheels have fallen off or whose bag has split open! It's brutal in there if you can't keep up. Like in "Rollerball"? (But I haven't see that film, so just guessing!) 

I have travelled (by air, long haul with connections) with 3 small kids (plus piles of luggage) many yrs ago and always dreaded it. But never did the London underground with them! (I know my limits!)

Yes, thankfully had the other half. Without her there I would almost certainly have been relying on the kindness of strangers (a couple of people asked her if she needed help on some steps and one lady said that she should sit on the tube (my wife refused, worried that if she moved to the middle of the carriage, she would never be able to get off again - I know from experience that taking the train from Surbiton to Waterloo and trying to get off at Vauxhall is only possible if the doorway you park yourself in is on the same side as the platform). 

Don't think we got lucky with the immune systems. Might have to go out and buy some zinc/vitamins.

Hopefully our move to the Czech Republic comes off in the next few months and we can replace these issues with exciting, new ones. 

 

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