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Cunning Plan

Crypto currencies

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What is up with these things?

I have been following the bitcoin thread on ToS and don't think I have ever seen so much Willy waving about how clever they are.

I asked the question that if they were all winning these massive unearned gains and the answer was anyone not into crypto.

So exactly like housing then?

Oh the irony.

I might ask about how they plan to pay the tax next.

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35 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

What is up with these things?

I have been following the bitcoin thread on ToS and don't think I have ever seen so much Willy waving about how clever they are.

I asked the question that if they were all winning these massive unearned gains and the answer was anyone not into crypto.

So exactly like housing then?

Oh the irony.

I might ask about how they plan to pay the tax next.

Ask them how they are geting on when cashing out , i know nowt but a mate had a fair few quid in bitcoin when it hit silly money not that long ago he diced to sell the lot ...he could only do £5k a day by the time he got the lot out the price had dropped by 6-7k  i`m not suer if this is A-typical

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9 minutes ago, wherebee said:

It's a brilliant chance to make money.  Or lose money.

 

Only time will tell which one it is for the majority.

So is the Grand National.

I have a feeling it was being ramped hard last week for a reason.

Apparently there is a queue to get a wallet to store it in.

All over odd.

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33 minutes ago, Long time lurking said:

Ask them how they are geting on when cashing out , i know nowt but a mate had a fair few quid in bitcoin when it hit silly money not that long ago he diced to sell the lot ...he could only do £5k a day by the time he got the lot out the price had dropped by 6-7k  i`m not suer if this is A-typical

Getting the money out is fucking hard.

I bought a small amount years back, and sold 10% of it in the recent spike. It took weeks.

When there's a rush for the exit - as there inevitably will be - it won't be pretty.

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1 minute ago, SpectrumFX said:

Getting the money out is fucking hard.

I bought a small amount years back, and sold 10% of it in the recent spike. It took weeks.

When there's a rush for the exit - as there inevitably will be - it won't be pretty.

That sounds less than reassuring  ....buy with the click of a mouse ..weeks to sell ,,did you get the spot price or the price that it was weeks later ?

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6 minutes ago, SpectrumFX said:

Getting the money out is fucking hard.

I bought a small amount years back, and sold 10% of it in the recent spike. It took weeks.

When there's a rush for the exit - as there inevitably will be - it won't be pretty.

So basically an illiquid asset, despite being called a currency.

I think it is failing one of the tests.

P.S. Have you got enough left to buy an island?

Edited by Cunning Plan

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The thread on TOS is full of people ramping their chosen crypto currency like mad so they can pocket a quick profit on their investment and true believers have drunk too much techno Koolaid and are simply away with fairies. The latter include a few people who have swallowed the hype about blockchain hook line and sinker. They appear oblivious to its shortcomings despite the desperately slow and resource hungry nature of the architecture. Nor are distributed data storage networks based on linked lists that much of a technological innovation. Unfortunately, If you query the orthodoxy you will be told the secret of the likes of bitcoin are all in the algorithms which only a few initiates understand. While I appreciate write only distributed and encrypted storage of data does make the possibility of it being lost our corrupted by a disaster less likely it does not remove all technological risk, the most obvious being that your own local connection to the internet gets compromised by war, power cuts or some other breakdown in society so you can not actually get at all your crypto wealth. I am sure that electronic currencies do have a future but not in the current form. Personally if I was preparing for TEOTWAWKI I don't think I would not be putting my faith in something that relies on a vast amount of vulnerable computer and communication hardware to function. Instead I would buy some 1oz silver coins I could bury in the garden and which might be usable as a substitute currency in a real life trading scenario though things like fags and booze would also serve that purpose as well.

Edited by Virgil Caine

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An exchange allows you to keep cash and cryptocurrency. So no need to take it out unless you need the cash. You can withdraw coins once you have bought them. If youre a hodler, not in it for a quick buck, but in it becuase you dont belive in the current finacnial system, which most user believers are, you just take the coins out. Those that are in it for a quick buck are likely to lose their shirt (and their cash). 

Theres a phrase coined from TOS, the no-coiners, those on that thread are convinced that that they are right and bitcoin and all crypto is going to zero. Only time will tell whose right.

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11 minutes ago, Long time lurking said:

That sounds less than reassuring  ....buy with the click of a mouse ..weeks to sell ,,did you get the spot price or the price that it was weeks later ?

I sold on coinbase, and then waited to get set up to withdraw funds on the exchange. That meant that I got the price that I wanted, but I was holding the funds on the exchange for several weeks, which is a risk, as they might get hacked, or go under.

I'm supposedly now set up to sell, so it should be easier next time, but when it gets busy the speed that they transfer funds drops as they haven't got the capacity to deal with the transactions.

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2 minutes ago, Virgil Caine said:

The thread on TOS is full of people ramping their chosen crypto currency like mad so they can pocket a quick profit and people who have drunk too much techno Koolaid and are simoly away with fairies. The latter include a few people who have swallowed the hype about blockchain hook line and sinker. They appear oblivious to its shortcomings despite the desperately slow and resource hungry nature of the architecture. Nor are distributed data storage networks based on linked lists that much of a technological innovation. Unfortunately, If you query the orthodoxy you will be told the secret of the likes of bitcoin are all in the algorithms which only a few initiates understand. While I appreciate write only distributed and encrypted storage of data does make the possibility of it being lost our corrupted by a disaster less likely it does not remove all technological risk, the most obvious being that your own local connection to the internet gets compromised by war, power cuts or some other breakdown in society so you can not actually get at all your crypto wealth. I am sure that electronic currencies do have a future but not in the current form. Personally if I was preparing for TEOTWAWKI I don't think I would not be putting my faith in something that relies on a vast amount of vulnerable computer and communication hardware to function. Instead I would buy some 1oz silver coins I could bury in the garden and which might be usable as a substitute currency in a real life trading scenario though things like fags and booze would also serve that purpose as well.

My thoughts entirely. (But about 500 words longer)

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18 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

So basically an illiquid asset, despite being called a currency.

I think it is failing one of the tests.

P.S. Have you got enough left to buy an island?

I bought £100 worth. Sold some for £200. Got about £2k left. So I won't be buying any islands anytime soon.

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5 minutes ago, SpectrumFX said:

I sold on coinbase, and then waited to get set up to withdraw funds on the exchange. That meant that I got the price that I wanted, but I was holding the funds on the exchange for several weeks, which is a risk, as they might get hacked, or go under.

I'm supposedly now set up to sell, so it should be easier next time, but when it gets busy the speed that they transfer funds drops as they haven't got the capacity to deal with the transactions.

Not to bad if you got the price ,my mate have not got a clue who/where they sold but they could only make a sale of £5 k every 24 hrs 

I think his coins was from his gaming days? o.O

Edited by Long time lurking

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2 minutes ago, Long time lurking said:

Not to bad if you got the price ,my mate have not got a clue who/where they sold but they could only make a sale of £5 k every 24 hrs 

They do have value limits, I'm small enough of a player that that's not an issue for me.

It's a problem I'd be happy to have.

xD

 

Edited by SpectrumFX

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5 minutes ago, Virgil Caine said:

 While I appreciate write only distributed and encrypted storage of data does make the possibility of it being lost our corrupted by a disaster less likely it does not remove all technological risk, the most obvious being that your own local connection to the internet gets compromised by war, power cuts or some other breakdown in society so you can not actually get at all your crypto wealth. 

I view the technological risks of bitcoin as orders of magnitude less than the political and financial risks of keeping inflationary money in a bank.

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Just now, goldbug9999 said:

Do you want me to join in or should I just leave you to it ? B|

 

Go for it. Just don't wave your Willy!

My very ignorant thoughts are a) can the government tax any profit made and b) If it was a stable currency it would be a brilliant way to hide cash from benefit caps, inheritance tax etc which leads me on to c) can governments close it down?

Because if a) is no, and b and c are yes, it won't last long.

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1 minute ago, SpectrumFX said:

They do have value limits, I'm small enough of a player that that's not an issue for me.

It's a problem I'd be happy to have.

xD

 

He`s no trader or realy loaded i think he got his coins from gaming years ago and has been waiting for it to get to silly money again 

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Just now, goldbug9999 said:

I view the technological risks of bitcoin as orders of magnitude less than the political and financial risks of keeping inflationary money in a bank.

Absolutely.

 

2 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

Go for it. Just don't wave your Willy!

My very ignorant thoughts are a) can the government tax any profit made and b) If it was a stable currency it would be a brilliant way to hide cash from benefit caps, inheritance tax etc which leads me on to c) can governments close it down?

Because if a) is no, and b and c are yes, it won't last long.

As far as i know if you cash out more than 10k PA you pay CGT already, so its already taxed. 

US its currently untaxed, but that has just changed i beleive.

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My view is that there will be a crypto currency widely used in the future, or maybe more than one, but no one who is not a real expert can tell which one it will be.  Could be etherium, bitcoin, or anything else.  

I look at it like VHS/betamax.  The 'winner' will not be the technically best, or that supported by the biggest company, but will be decided by something else.    When that happens, the betamaxes of cryptos will be worth very very little.  I don't have enough money to waste to gamble on that.

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1 minute ago, Cunning Plan said:

Go for it. Just don't wave your Willy!

My very ignorant thoughts are a) can the government tax any profit made and b) If it was a stable currency it would be a brilliant way to hide cash from benefit caps, inheritance tax etc which leads me on to c) can governments close it down?

Because if a) is no, and b and c are yes, it won't last long.

To get money into your bank account off an exchange you need to get your identity verified, and put it into a bank account in your name.

So as it stands you'll be easily traceable by the government for whatever tax that they want.

If we get to the point that you can actually spend it directly then that might change, but you'd still be liable for whatever tax that that wanted off you.

 

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Nationwide have recently blocked their customers from putting money into Bitcoin via the exchanges in the name of protecting their customers. That says two things pertinent to this thread: 1. Banks / B.S. now tell you what you can and can't spend your money on,  and 2. They are very worried about the competition. 

Bitcoin itself is fraught with problems and I can't see it changing but other cryptocurrencies will take its place I'm sure. If you don't believe that they have a future then don't invest in them. 

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22 minutes ago, goldbug9999 said:

I view the technological risks of bitcoin as orders of magnitude less than the political and financial risks of keeping inflationary money in a bank.

They still exist. The fact is most of the IT structures that bitcoin runs on was bought and paid for by nasty government fiat money residing in banks and leveraged  to fund the investment. I think inherently deflationary crypto currencies like bitcoin create the possibility of a big negative feed back loop which might make people decide that investing in the latter is simply not worthwhile. It also assumes that if governments and banks collapse then the new world order imagined by the Austrian economists would be full of rational economic actors rather than brigands who would simply carve bits off you with sharp instruments until you handed over your wealth. In the latter scenario your crypto wealth would  then depend on how long you can withstand the threat of extreme violence. That might not be long as recents events in Kiev and elsewhere have shown.

Edited by Virgil Caine

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I tried to sign up to something called coinfloor so I could take a punt on the next dip if it happens. Not entirely convinced any of them will be the winning horse, but just a punt.

Anyway, computer said no. No explanation, no come back, done. Ok then.

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12 minutes ago, spunko2010 said:

Nationwide have recently blocked their customers from putting money into Bitcoin via the exchanges in the name of protecting their customers. That says two things pertinent to this thread: 1. Banks / B.S. now tell you what you can and can't spend your money on,  and 2. They are very worried about the competition. 

Bitcoin itself is fraught with problems and I can't see it changing but other cryptocurrencies will take its place I'm sure. If you don't believe that they have a future then don't invest in them. 

The arguments about crypto currencies are really a matter of politics and economics rather than technological.  Blockchain has other potential uses rather than just supporting the likes of bitcoin. It can create secure audit chains and tamper proof records of contracts for starters regardless of the currency used.

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