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Horrified Onlooker

Brexiteers Dying Out

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Posted (edited)

Maybe it'll take the generation of children represented by the Manchester bombing murders and Rotherham rapings etc to reverse young voters' opinion -  but unfortunately by then if Britain does remain in the eu laws will have been passed so that their voices will go unheard.

Edited by twocents

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FWIW, what I read suggests to me that people are "wising up" to the EU.

The migrant crisis and Merkel's behaviour played straight into the Brexit vote.

I think that were there another referendum tomorrow, the result would be about the same, still favouring "Leave".

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Inoperational Bumblebee said:

Didn't see the piece but it makes me laugh how it used to be said old people didn't like change, but now it's claimed they are the ones who want to alter something that's been in place for 40 odd years!

It's a bit ironic that the young people who voted to go into the Common Market/EEC are the self same people who now want to get out. Young people changing their minds eh.

To be fair if it wasn't for the fact that the eu is now totally no good by now it would have been going from strength to strength

Edited by twocents

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5 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

I still don't get the remainers view that they want everything to stay as it is.

That is the one option not on the table. To me, any risk in leaving is far less than the risk of staying attached to whatever Europe will become.

If we don't leave, we will still be tied in for the next 20 years. Seeing what has changed in the last 20 that terrifies me.

+1. So rarely said in the media. The remainers seem blinkered into believing that we would continue in some perceived utopia, which I never did share in its perception. The truth was that accelerated union in all senses together with new initiatives such as TTIP were then on the table. Similarly I believe any rejoining would lead legally to enforced loss of the £.

What will happen and what would also have happened will be blurred now I think into on going and continued renegotiation. We have been doing that for years. Unfortunately it would have continued had we remained and will now certainly continue as we "leave". The only variable is how much is given away for our new starting point.

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1 minute ago, Frank Hovis said:

"Progressives" always push the line that the future belongs to them.  The Nazis did the same.

 

 

That's a great scene, particularly the old man who won't join in (oh well never mind he'll soon die off). As has been said up thread the risk of staying in the EU was bigger than the risk of leaving, it's why I voted leave.

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6 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

"Progressives" always push the line that the future belongs to them.  The Nazis did the same.

"Progressives" and Nazis have more than a few things in common.

Not least - identifying "the enemy".

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38 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

"Progressives" always push the line that the future belongs to them.  The Nazis did the same.

 

 

Cabaret is a great film. My Dad was in Germany in the late 1930's and he told me the film really captures the atmosphere then.

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1 hour ago, DTMark said:

FWIW, what I read suggests to me that people are "wising up" to the EU.

The migrant crisis and Merkel's behaviour played straight into the Brexit vote.

I think that were there another referendum tomorrow, the result would be about the same, still favouring "Leave".

I actually think it would be more strongly in favour of leave if the same question was asked. The problem is that the question this time will be:

Please choose one of the following options:

1. The government will beg the EU to let us stay.

2. The government will put income tax up to 100% and eat your first born child (and we'll leave the EU).

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5 hours ago, DTMark said:

Obviously, I'm getting older and more cynical over time. The Brexit vote was arguably the most important political decision that I have been involved in.

I realise people don't like periods of uncertainty. It unsettles people. I could assess both sides of the argument. I actually, really, did think about it. More than 30 seconds of brain-power were put to use in making a decision and weighing the options. 

Clearly, from various comments I've made, I voted "leave".

But the degree of moronic behaviour since the vote, by *some* of those who voted remain, is truly saddening. 

Comments about this that begin with "I just cannot understand.." [how people could have voted differently to me]. Or, the playing of the "racist" card. Such people have clearly decided that it is possible to determine a person's entire psychology from just one vote. The "it wasn't explained to me" argument.

All of which say so much about *you*, and you don't even realise it.

I don't seek to generalise and assert that everyone who voted "remain" is a moron. Rather, that they have a different opinion to me. I'd like to think that people carefully weighed the issues. However so many of the comments that I see suggest otherwise to me. There is no debate. There is no capacity for debate.

It's like debating with people you thought were adults, but suddenly the screen is pulled back and you see now that they're all about ten years old.

So you've visited TOS Brexit thread recently I see. :D

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20 minutes ago, Caravan Monster said:

Obviously only a small sample, but at the time of the referendum, the only open remainers I could find were people with business / economic interest in the eu and women. I was shocked by some of the weak arguments from women (and I'm talking graduates that have achieved success in public and private sectors), really vacuous bollocks along the line of 'I'm voting remain because I don't believe in borders'. 

Tbh, 18 months after the vote I'm still shocked at how poor the pro EU arguments are. The pro EU arguments were basically "we're walking down the yellow brick road to an awesome future", "we need the EU to give us employment rights", "voting out will mean the end of the world" or "your racist not to want to stay in".

I just can't see how anyone can look at the EU and think staying in was good for Brits.

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6 minutes ago, Great Guy said:

Tbh, 18 months after the vote I'm still shocked at how poor the pro EU arguments are. The pro EU arguments were basically "we're walking down the yellow brick road to an awesome future", "we need the EU to give us employment rights", "voting out will mean the end of the world" or "your racist not to want to stay in".

I just can't see how anyone can look at the EU and think staying in was good for Brits.

The best argument I was given is that it would cause political disruption and financial uncertainty. Which to be fair it has. This was from a guy in the early days of a big mortgage, so he was looking for financial stability, which is fair enough.

The trouble is that the short term stability comes from government interference in the natural economic cycle, which actually builds up systemic risk, and a bigger crisis in the future.

I'm happy to trade off short term pain for long term gain, and so it wasn't an issue for me that things would go to shit in the short term.

The hardest path is the easy path taken every day, and all that.

 

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15 minutes ago, Great Guy said:

Tbh, 18 months after the vote I'm still shocked at how poor the pro EU arguments are. The pro EU arguments were basically "we're walking down the yellow brick road to an awesome future", "we need the EU to give us employment rights", "voting out will mean the end of the world" or "your racist not to want to stay in".

I just can't see how anyone can look at the EU and think staying in was good for Brits.

Agreed.

Aside from the economics - and nobody knows how that will end up - the only other debates I've heard with any merit are flimsy ones involving going on holiday etc. Which really shouldn't be reasons used imo as they're immaterial.

On TOS IMHAL seems to have taken up the role of #1 remoaner now.

I had a look at their profile. Was over 350 posts ago when they commented on ANY other thread on the site outwith the Brexit thread. O.o And that was back in September I think.

Now I post mainly on that thread but that's excessive. Obsessive.

IMHAL definitely has skin on the game - but he's one of the few main remainers on that thread who hasn't let it slip yet. 

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, The Generation Game said:

I don't understand. Surely at the same rate Brexiteers are popping their clogs, middle aged remainers are switching allegiance as they've passed the hypothetical age threshold. 

The fact that people might grow older and/or change their minds never seems to occur to the MSM.

In addition the anti EU vote was also an anti London vote. I think it is the latter as much as the former that is pissing off certain Remainers. The subtext is how dare people outside the Capital vote against the wishes of their  lords and masters.

Reading the TOS Brexit thread I notice most of the Remainers seem to live in or near London.

Edited by Virgil Caine

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