This will piss off TOS

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/mortgages/lloyds-offfers-first-time-buyers-mortgage-5-times-salary/

Quote

Lloyd’s boosts size of mortgages by 22pc to help more get on the ladder.

First-time buyers will be able to borrow up to 5.5 times their salary from Britain’s biggest lender in a push to help more on to the housing ladder. 

Lloyd’s has made £2bn available for a “boost” for buyers looking to borrow more than 4.5 times their income, increasing the amount that can be borrowed by up to 22pc. 

 

 

Plus

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/08/30/ftse100-markets-news-house-prices-rise-at-fastest-pace/

[HousePriceMania]

fuile that under propaganda.

[HousePriceMania]

Shouldn't' that piss most people off,. not just TOS-ERs ?

[HousePriceMania]

Given that headline, I was surprised to see this...

 

Nationwide HPI August 2024 -0.2% MoM +2.4% YoY

[HousePriceMania]

The telegraph article ( free to read oddly ) doesn't actually mention the mom fall.

 

As I said, file under propaganda.

This is disgraceful reporting.

[HousePriceMania]

Bloomberg's take

 

The good people of TOS are happy.

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

I suspect the Telegraph is in two minds. They want property to do well to support the vested interests, but they also want Labour to do badly.

I guess if property falls enough, they'll be no CGT to pay. 😂

[spygirl]

Its more advertorial than actual product.

Gets it name in the papers. Get some business.

https://www.halifax-intermediaries.co.uk/products/ftb-boost.html

Any applicant is a first time buyer (could be one applicant on a joint application; key FTB as first applicant)

Total income on application is £50,000 or more

Loan to value (LTV) is 90% or less

 

Other important information

• The increased LTI is not available where the mortgage is on shared equity or shared ownership schemes.
• For applications with any element of self-employed income, our standard LTIs will apply.
• On joint applications the FTB must be keyed as the 1st or 2nd applicant, or the LTI boost will not be applied.
• For a small number of applications the overall credit profile may restrict the LTI applied to 5x rather than 5.5x, or the level of credit score could mean standard LTIs will apply.

 

[Boon]

I thought it would be more restrictive than that. But for a long time I have thought that not all careers are equal in terms of opportunity, security or salary so there should be more divergence, a junior doctor, lawyer or pilot would have a greater expected value of earnings than a junior teaching assistant but under current models all just get 4x current salary or whatever the bank says.

90% LTV is not particularly tough, and neither is the £50k requirement, especially in the South.

But it's nowt to do with getting more people on the property ladder, I suspect more to do with protecting prices. They don't rule out flats which I feel is the riskiest type of collateral, seen many repos which either struggle to sell or go well below the types of prices that people try to get on Rightmove.

[spygirl]

21 minutes ago, Boon said:

I thought it would be more restrictive than that. But for a long time I have thought that not all careers are equal in terms of opportunity, security or salary so there should be more divergence, a junior doctor, lawyer or pilot would have a greater expected value of earnings than a junior teaching assistant but under current models all just get 4x current salary or whatever the bank says.

90% LTV is not particularly tough, and neither is the £50k requirement, especially in the South.

But it's nowt to do with getting more people on the property ladder, I suspect more to do with protecting prices. They don't rule out flats which I feel is the riskiest type of collateral, seen many repos which either struggle to sell or go well below the types of prices that people try to get on Rightmove.

90% LTV is tough in South.

50k income is tough in the North.

FTB only.

Its BS.

 

 

 

[HousePriceMania]

 

Seasonal adjustment eh, what a laugh.

I guess they wanted a good number so they could double down on now's a good time to buy after IRs dropped 0.25% and inflation picked up....

[spygirl]

Fuck pries.

Its volumes that matter with HP ...

Calendar	GMT	Reference		Actual	Previous	Consensus	TEForecast
2024-07-29	08:30 AM		Jun	59.98K	60.13K	60K	62.0K
2024-08-30	08:30 AM		Jul	61.99K	60.61K	60.5K	60.8K
2024-09-30	08:30 AM		Aug		61.99K		61.2K

Thoses numbers are dire.

 

[Adarmo]

TBH I would just quite like house price increases to be 10% YoY and NI charged on pensions. If this could happen December to ruin Bouncing Bellyaching Boomer Bruce Bannerman's Christmas I should require no other gifts. 

House prices can then go negative for the next X years for all I care. 

[AWW]

Be interesting to see where the 2.4% increase figure came from. Everything except the very shittest of flats is still falling round my way, rents included.

[Mandalorian]

3 hours ago, Adarmo said:

TBH I would just quite like house price increases to be 10% YoY and NI charged on pensions. If this could happen December to ruin Bouncing Bellyaching Boomer Bruce Bannerman's Christmas I should require no other gifts. 

House prices can then go negative for the next X years for all I care. 

He's a proper twunt

[King Penda]

On 30/08/2024 at 07:49, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/mortgages/lloyds-offfers-first-time-buyers-mortgage-5-times-salary/

 

Plus

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/08/30/ftse100-markets-news-house-prices-rise-at-fastest-pace/

I did say house prices won’t crash . We need the Black Death for that 

[King Penda]

On 30/08/2024 at 10:17, spygirl said:

90% LTV is tough in South.

50k income is tough in the North.

FTB only.

Its BS.

 

 

 

Volumes are down interest rates are high ( not historically obviously). You would pay a fucking fortune in interest borrowing another 20%. There still won’t be a crash certainly not up north with normal houses. You forget the 750,000 arriving yearly 

[Adarmo]

Been umming and aaahhhing over what to do post October budget if they fuck with pension relief. I'm fortunate in my current role being well paid so I'm putting everything over £100K into a pension. When coupled with employer contributions this exceeds £60K a year (not really a brag - I don't see how anyone could retire without significant sums in a SIPP these days unless they have other income). I'm now burning through the carry forward allowances of the unused portion of £60k for the last three years. 

If full pension relief is taken away I'm thinking it makes sense to switch contributions to the minimum so I still get the employers contributions and use the much increased take-home to service a much larger mortgage. Get a nicer house to live in and it'll appreciate tax free (until they come for that too?)

Then, when I'm ready to put my feet up just downsize. 

Upshot, a tax change effing over higher earners is likely to divert money from things like pensions and ISAs and into property. 

[AWW]

6 hours ago, Adarmo said:

Been umming and aaahhhing over what to do post October budget if they fuck with pension relief. I'm fortunate in my current role being well paid so I'm putting everything over £100K into a pension. When coupled with employer contributions this exceeds £60K a year (not really a brag - I don't see how anyone could retire without significant sums in a SIPP these days unless they have other income). I'm now burning through the carry forward allowances of the unused portion of £60k for the last three years. 

If full pension relief is taken away I'm thinking it makes sense to switch contributions to the minimum so I still get the employers contributions and use the much increased take-home to service a much larger mortgage. Get a nicer house to live in and it'll appreciate tax free (until they come for that too?)

Then, when I'm ready to put my feet up just downsize. 

Upshot, a tax change effing over higher earners is likely to divert money from things like pensions and ISAs and into property. 

Same here, currently stuffing 10k a month into SIPP. If they mess with allowances, my response depends on how much they mess with them. If 20% cap, I tend to agree with you that it makes sense to take the money now and put it into a house, however poorly I think housing will perform over the next cycle. If 30% across the board relief, slightly different equation.

I think however they do it, they are going to end up extracting more from working people, so you're damned however you respond.

[Adarmo]

On 04/09/2024 at 16:08, AWW said:

Same here, currently stuffing 10k a month into SIPP. If they mess with allowances, my response depends on how much they mess with them. If 20% cap, I tend to agree with you that it makes sense to take the money now and put it into a house, however poorly I think housing will perform over the next cycle. If 30% across the board relief, slightly different equation.

I think however they do it, they are going to end up extracting more from working people, so you're damned however you respond.

By way of illustration take someone earning £150K. That top £50K is taxed at 54.5%. If we put that into a pension today we can take it (after the PCLS) and have tax (at today's rates) taken at an effective rate of 14.972%. Logically then the rate saved must exceed the rate paid later and in this case it's quite a nice delta. 

However, What seems to be doing the rounds is that someone couldn't put that top £50K into a pension because they'd get a flat 30% relief on it. So, sacrifice £50K and (I think) you'd get £32,500 into your pension and the rest would go in tax. You've now faced an effective tax rate of 35% on the way in now face 14.972% on the way out. Considering both you're paying tax at circa 45%. Might as well pay another £5K, have the nicer house and get some tax free appreciation and pay zero tax on disposal. 

20% relief looks worse of course. 

What's perverse about it is that a flat 30% rate might well end up costing the country far more if the higher earners avoid pension contributions (which are capped anyway) but the masses of people paid under £50K start getting more tax back than they would have paid - in otherwards it's a an actual cost!

Right now it's zero cost, zero gain to the treasury - and I would argue that changing the existing regime will end up resulting in more costs down the line when people burn through smaller and require support from the state.

[BuyToilet]

On 04/09/2024 at 10:02, Adarmo said:I'm now burning through the carry forward allowances of the unused portion of £60k for the last three years. 

It’s only been 60k since 2023-24 unless you know something i don’t. Always wondered whether hmrc actually check the payments people make.

[23rdian]

On 30/08/2024 at 08:14, HousePriceMania said:

Shouldn't' that piss most people off,. not just TOS-ERs ?

I really don't care anymore. In the corrupt cess pit of modern Britain over priced Housing is just one of the reasons to leave.

[InLikeFlynn]

On 05/09/2024 at 19:26, BuyToilet said:

Always wondered whether hmrc actually check the payments people make.

Good point, I wonder about this and more broadly about enforcement in general. Clearly they will pursue the obvious cases and the affairs of high earners.... But have they really got the clout to pursue small infractions of pension regulations across multiple years and pensions? HMRC are a troubled and overstretched organisation. 

I have been very careful to avoid breaching the annual limits (I have Sipps and DB pensions) but suspect HMRC wouldn't have a clue if I'd overstepped.

Edited Tuesday at 12:41 by InLikeFlynn