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One percent

Rewarding our brave armed forces

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5274955/Homeless-ex-soldier-died-slept-Edinburgh-streets.html

The death of a homeless former soldier has sparked outrage among veterans charities who say more must be done to look after ex-servicemen.

Ex-squaddie Darren Greenfield, 47, who fell on hard times after leaving the Army, died on the streets of Edinburgh just a week before Christmas.

He was a regular face in the Scottish capital as he often spent time sitting on the steps of Waverley train station.

The Who Dares Cares charity said: 'It is a sign of the times that a soldier is left to die on our streets. It is an utter outrage.' 

Mr Greenfield had served with the Royal Tank Regiment but fell on tough times after he left the Army. 

The news of his death sparked outrage among campaigners who are calling for more to be done to help veterans adapt to civilian life.

Military charities say at least 13,000 former soldiers are homeless – a record high.  



 

I don't think I need to draw parallels to Grenfell

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Nothing new. It's only in the reasonably civilised era since WW2 up to about 1995 that ex-soldiers have received anything worth mentioning...

I know it's fiction, but here's a quote from "Flashman at the Charge" when he visits the remains of the Light Brigade being kept prisoner in a shed...

"but it [Garryowen] always sounds bitter on my ears, because I think of those brave, deluded, pathetic bloody fools in that Russian shed, with their mangled bodies and lost limbs, all for a shilling a day, and a pauper’s grave – and yet they thought Cardigan, who’d of flogged ’em for a rusty spur and would have seen them murdered under the Russian guns because he hadn’t wit and manhood enough to tell Lucan to take his order to hell – they thought he was ‘a good old commander’, and they even cheered me, who’d have turned tail on them at a click of a bolt."

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Im going out on a limb and saying BS on this.

He was in for 12 years, serving as a desk jockey. He left 20 years ago. I doubt hed have seen much action beyond pencil sharpening.

Ssafa appears to have reached outbut hes chosen to stay on streets . Most likely hes an alchi.

Most vagrants claim to have been un army. Its a standard sob story. Few have.

If you want to help suyaddies adjust then dont have so many, sat around doing nothing, dont have subbed booze, make sure squadieies learn a transferable  trade whilst they are in.

 

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14 minutes ago, spygirl said:

One of the comments

Quote

The trope of the distressed veteran cast aside by society is one which has occupied the popular imagination since the Napoleonic wars. However as this (2016) article in Standpoint Magazine suggests it is largely a myth perpetrated by those with a financial interest in getting the public to believe it is true.
..
That hasn’t stopped some charities and media outlets promoting sad stories that give an impression of “an ocean-going disaster” as Milroy says. He is dismayed watching people exploit the veteran community and public with what is virtual “sadness pornography”. 
..

Myth Of Stressed-Out Soldiers On The Street | Standpoint

A lot of the comment, including the bits I haven't quoted, might well be true but why shouldn't "sadness pornography" work for British ex soldiers when it seems so effective for newcomers who haven't done much if anything for Britain.

Edited by twocents

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6 hours ago, One percent said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5274955/Homeless-ex-soldier-died-slept-Edinburgh-streets.html

The death of a homeless former soldier has sparked outrage among veterans charities who say more must be done to look after ex-servicemen.

Ex-squaddie Darren Greenfield, 47, who fell on hard times after leaving the Army, died on the streets of Edinburgh just a week before Christmas.

He was a regular face in the Scottish capital as he often spent time sitting on the steps of Waverley train station.

The Who Dares Cares charity said: 'It is a sign of the times that a soldier is left to die on our streets. It is an utter outrage.' 

Mr Greenfield had served with the Royal Tank Regiment but fell on tough times after he left the Army. 

The news of his death sparked outrage among campaigners who are calling for more to be done to help veterans adapt to civilian life.

Military charities say at least 13,000 former soldiers are homeless – a record high.  



 

I don't think I need to draw parallels to Grenfell

Holy shit! The highest rated comments!!

Top comment :

"When your country puts immigrants before soldiers that fought for it there is something very very wrong!"

6718 upvotes vs 381 downvotes!!

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3 minutes ago, Carl Fimble said:

Holy shit! The highest rated comments!!

Top comment :

"When your country puts immigrants before soldiers that fought for it there is something very very wrong!"

6718 upvotes vs 381 downvotes!!

I did wonder why it was so quiet on here tonight. Seems like everyone is over on the wail giving up votes. xD

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4 minutes ago, One percent said:

I did wonder why it was so quiet on here tonight. Seems like everyone is over on the wail giving up votes. xD

I did click a couple, and a couple of downvotes too...

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Ah yes. The Daily Mail, a rag that back in the nineties regularly pushed a squaddies-are-scum theme. There were news items about off-duty and former soldiers assaulting nice innocent civilians all the bloody time.

Scumbag paper, written by hateful idiots for hateful idiots. Just say no.

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14 minutes ago, horridbloke said:

Ah yes. The Daily Mail, a rag that back in the nineties regularly pushed a squaddies-are-scum theme. There were news items about off-duty and former soldiers assaulting nice innocent civilians all the bloody time.

Scumbag paper, written by hateful idiots for hateful idiots. Just say no.

Times change, as do people, and countries....

I used to think of the Daily Mail kinda more or less as you describe, but not any more- now I see it as the only paper to not be really really pushing for our destruction.

 

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2 hours ago, One percent said:

I did wonder why it was so quiet on here tonight. Seems like everyone is over on the wail giving up votes. xD

i went over the top and didnt wake up till 430 pm,looks like im doing an all nighter went the pub at 10 and no guniess so ive tried a few pints of pedigree no bits in it sadly

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3 hours ago, spygirl said:

Im going out on a limb and saying BS on this.

He was in for 12 years, serving as a desk jockey. He left 20 years ago. I doubt hed have seen much action beyond pencil sharpening.

Ssafa appears to have reached outbut hes chosen to stay on streets . Most likely hes an alchi.

Most vagrants claim to have been un army. Its a standard sob story. Few have.

If you want to help suyaddies adjust then dont have so many, sat around doing nothing, dont have subbed booze, make sure squadieies learn a transferable  trade whilst they are in.

 

That  may be true but it does not change the fact that soldiers have increasingly seen crappier and crappier conditions of service in the past 15 years including extended and repeated tours, less job security, a reduced pension, constrained pay and ever shittier living conditions presided over by the likes of Carillion. Hardly surprising the army has recruitment and retention problems.

Not that treating serving personnel is anything new in a country that left the sailors who resisted the Spanish Armada to starve and which found in the Anglo Dutch war of the 1660s that many English military personnel ended up fighting for thee Netherlands because their own government could not be arsed to pay them.

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6 hours ago, Virgil Caine said:

That  may be true but it does not change the fact that soldiers have increasingly seen crappier and crappier conditions of service in the past 15 years including extended and repeated tours, less job security, a reduced pension, constrained pay and ever shittier living conditions presided over by the likes of Carillion. Hardly surprising the army has recruitment and retention problems.

Not that treating serving personnel is anything new in a country that left the sailors who resisted the Spanish Armada to starve and which found in the Anglo Dutch war of the 1660s that many English military personnel ended up fighting for thee Netherlands because their own government could not be arsed to pay them.

Tre.

There should be less squaddies - most spend most of their time doing nothing.

The remaining ones shouldbe paid a lot better - they might attract better soldiers then.

To be honest, the army pension is very good, so good its going to sink the armed forces.

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2 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Tre.

There should be less squaddies - most spend most of their time doing nothing.

The remaining ones shouldbe paid a lot better - they might attract better soldiers then.

To be honest, the army pension is very good, so good its going to sink the armed forces.

Isn't that the nature of the job though?  We need people trained and ready for when we need them.  My understanding was that this was the mistake made prior to the two world wars.  We massively reined in spending and thus were underprepared. 

Given that the next significant war looks likely to be on home soil, I think we need to be as prepared as we possibly can be

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2 minutes ago, One percent said:

Isn't that the nature of the job though?  We need people trained and ready for when we need them.  My understanding was that this was the mistake made prior to the two world wars.  We massively reined in spending and thus were underprepared. 

Given that the next significant war looks likely to be on home soil, I think we need to be as prepared as we possibly can be

Not really. Army is masively wasteful. Ultimate in empire building.

Each war/abttle sees fewer squaddies being deployed as there is just no need for whatever pointless skill theyve been trained for.

Unless we enter a war where we literally need cannon fodder then the need for a lot of squaddies are trained for - artillery etc - is just not needed.

The problem with having a large, useless standing army is that is drawing money away from what we need to be spending on - drones, missiles, exterme offensive capabilities. And lots of spying and surveillance kit.

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5 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Not really. Army is masively wasteful. Ultimate in empire building.

Each war/abttle sees fewer squaddies being deployed as there is just no need for whatever pointless skill theyve been trained for.

Unless we enter a war where we literally need cannon fodder then the need for a lot of squaddies are trained for - artillery etc - is just not needed.

The problem with having a large, useless standing army is that is drawing money away from what we need to be spending on - drones, missiles, exterme offensive capabilities. And lots of spying and surveillance kit.

I understand what you are saying but I feel we have massive unrest and urban warfare coming. 

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3 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Tre.

There should be less squaddies - most spend most of their time doing nothing.

The remaining ones shouldbe paid a lot better - they might attract better soldiers then.

To be honest, the army pension is very good, so good its going to sink the armed forces.

The armed forces are already shrinking rapidly. The army alone looks as though it will have halved in size since 2010 due to redundancies

The Pension was good if you were a long term career soldier but its terms have been revised in 2005 and 2015. The last change made it a lot less attractive. Not many armed service personnel serve long enough to get a full pension.

None of that disguises the fact that politicians from Blair to Cameron have been fond of unwinnable military interventions in the Middle East and Afghanistan so they can ponce around the globe pretending to be world statesmen. These have led to a fair few soldiers getting killed and a lot more crippled in body and mind. Once they have served their purpose and become a 'burden' to the taxpayer they all to often simply get dumped and forgotten. Like so much of society the army has also become crazily top heavy with management with the actual number at the sharp end being both reduced in numbers and being asked to do ever more with less.

 

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7 hours ago, spygirl said:

Not really. Army is masively wasteful. Ultimate in empire building.

Each war/abttle sees fewer squaddies being deployed as there is just no need for whatever pointless skill theyve been trained for.

Unless we enter a war where we literally need cannon fodder then the need for a lot of squaddies are trained for - artillery etc - is just not needed.

The problem with having a large, useless standing army is that is drawing money away from what we need to be spending on - drones, missiles, exterme offensive capabilities. And lots of spying and surveillance kit.

The armed forces should evolve to meet whatever is perceived to be the current threat but just that: evolve.

Every change now is a cut rather than a substitution couched under a banner of modernisation and efficiency.  The Royal Marines are chopping three barrcaks (Citadel, Stonehouse, and Norton Fitzwarren), and putting everyone into Torpoint which, as has been pointed out, isn't big enough for the proposed numbers so whoops, my mistake, let's cut numbers again.

Meanwhile the MoD has sold off lots of prime real estate which it can't reoccupy.

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18 hours ago, twocents said:

One of the comments

A lot of the comment, including the bits I haven't quoted, might well be true but why shouldn't "sadness pornography" work for British ex soldiers when it seems so effective for newcomers who haven't done much if anything for Britain.

also in the comments

 

"Exaggeration about veterans in crisis from various sources is part of his daily life. One concern is the constant claim that there are thousands of veterans living on the streets. Some media outlets and charities have made wild claims over the years. “I’ve heard shocking numbers like 5,000 to 10,000 homeless heroes living on the streets,” says Milroy. “The internet doesn’t help, as people read these numbers and once said often enough it becomes a truth. Yet the government data indicates that at the moment on any given night, around 3,500 sleep rough in all of England, and around 2 per cent of those might have a military connection.” 

 

Claim is now 17,000. 20,00 by next Christmas? 50,000 if we have another Election?

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17 minutes ago, snagger said:

also in the comments

 

"Exaggeration about veterans in crisis from various sources is part of his daily life. One concern is the constant claim that there are thousands of veterans living on the streets. Some media outlets and charities have made wild claims over the years. “I’ve heard shocking numbers like 5,000 to 10,000 homeless heroes living on the streets,” says Milroy. “The internet doesn’t help, as people read these numbers and once said often enough it becomes a truth. Yet the government data indicates that at the moment on any given night, around 3,500 sleep rough in all of England, and around 2 per cent of those might have a military connection.” 

 

Claim is now 17,000. 20,00 by next Christmas? 50,000 if we have another Election?

I have zero idea of the percentage of ex-military but I can tell you that the 3,500 is a big underestimate.

I know someone who does the count every year and she scrupulously follows the rules on the night of the count, one of which is a rough sleeper can only be counted if they are actually horizontal so that someone in a sleeping bag sat up in a shop doorway doesn't count.  They are also not to count in woodland or anywhere they feel it is dangerous.  Plus any rough sleeper who happens to have got a settee to sleep on that night won't be counted.

I am not saying that means you can add a nought but you can probably triple the official number.

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34 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

I have zero idea of the percentage of ex-military but I can tell you that the 3,500 is a big underestimate.

I know someone who does the count every year and she scrupulously follows the rules on the night of the count, one of which is a rough sleeper can only be counted if they are actually horizontal so that someone in a sleeping bag sat up in a shop doorway doesn't count.  They are also not to count in woodland or anywhere they feel it is dangerous.  Plus any rough sleeper who happens to have got a settee to sleep on that night won't be counted.

I am not saying that means you can add a nought but you can probably triple the official number.

Even if you add a zero, 35,000 of which 2% have Military ties, that's 700

or reverse it, 17,000 ex-forces sleeping rough would mean a total population of 850,000 sleeping rough.

Assuming the 2% is accurate and not made up ;-)

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