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sarahbell

Oh it's so simple Mr Steptoe

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Labour says they would work with charities and outreach workers to identify rough sleepers and offer them accommodation "as quickly as possible" and tenancies could be modelled on schemes already in place - such as the "clearing house" scheme operated by the St Mungo's charity in Londo

 

https://www.mungos.org/our-services/clearing-house/

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Sensitive lets

Flat available 3rd floor one bedroomed flat available 26 January 2018 @ 10.00 am
Location Brodlove Lane, Tower Hamlets
Rent and service charge per week: Rent and Housing Benefit eligible s/c £131.09Housing Benefit ineligible s/c £0.00
Criteria/Issues This block has been affected by anti-social behavior, drug dealing and vulnerable tenants have had their tenancies taken over. This would not be suitable for any clients with substance use and alcohol issues. Clients must be robust and have low support needs.

 

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The management of that block has totally failed.

Drug dealing must be rife including "cuckooing" where dealers move into and take over the flat of a vulnerable (jn the common use of the word) drug user for dealing and parties.  The tenant sometimes gets killed if they make a stand.

I'm not sure who coming off the streets would be suitable for that block; they'd be safer on the streets.

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Total wank.

70% of the people begging are not homeless. They have housing. They are begging for booze or drink money.

There are beds available for homeless. Seriouly loads of them.

What there arent is housing for scummy junkies who dont follow any rules.

Have a simple rule - housing provided but you must work and not bring booze or drugs back.

Next. 40% of the people on the street are firuegn. Most are EE. Tgey are not homeless, they have accomidation back home. They are in the wrong fucking country.

48 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

The management of that block has totally failed.

Drug dealing must be rife including "cuckooing" where dealers move into and take over the flat of a vulnerable (jn the common use of the word) drug user for dealing and parties.  The tenant sometimes gets killed if they make a stand.

I'm not sure who coming off the streets would be suitable for that block; they'd be safer on the streets.

Management cannot be ghere 24x7 to deal with scum and scum friends.

Again, insist on working age homeless holding down work.

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45 minutes ago, TheBlueCat said:

More magical thinking by the left. It's certainly true that a lack of affordable housing is a contributory factor in homelessness but it's not the main one by a long shot. If Steptoe had something like "we're going to compulsory purchase a bunch of office blocks and turn them into full service shelters with safe separate rooms where, by the way, smoking and pets will not be banned, and social workers, medical staff, security personnel etc. will be on hand to deal with the multiple complex problems that kept the people in question on the streets in the first place" then it might be plausible, otherwise it's just a load of wank.  

Id ban pets.

Get a fucking job then get a pet.

Stop making excuses for these dossers.

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Just now, spygirl said:

Total wank.

70% of the people begging are not homeless. They have housing. They are begging for booze or drink money.

There are beds available for homeless. Seriouly loads of them.

What there arent is housing for scummy junkies who dont follow any rules.

Have a simple rule - housing provided but you must work and not bring booze or drugs back.

Next. 40% of the people on the street are firuegn. Most are EE. Tgey are not homeless, they have accomidation back home. They are in the wrong fucking country.

There are not loads of beds available for the homeless; there are some.

Anyone who finds themself homeless but has a bit of patience, is mentally stable, isn't addicted to anything, and is prepared to work can be off the streets for good in a matter of weeks.

A lot of them have problems that are causing and perpetuating their homelessness; just giving them a flat won't be enough.

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Because everyone who sleeps rough has been done over by the state and is a victim!

Wankers. 

There is a good reason a lot of people sleep rough. Giving some of them an independent home would probably kill them off quicker. As mentioned above, a supervised block of flats - almost hospital like, could be a good idea. 

The idea that has been put forward belongs in Narnia.

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1 minute ago, Frank Hovis said:

There are not loads of beds available for the homeless; there are some.

Anyone who finds themself homeless but has a bit of patience, is mentally stable, isn't addicted to anything, and is prepared to work can be off the streets for good in a matter of weeks.

A lot of them have problems that are causing and perpetuating their homelessness; just giving them a flat won't be enough.

Nope. Not where i am.

There needs to be a system where a person is declared unfit to manage their affairs.

In which case they are out in a system that supports them. But they have to accept no choice over their life - no booze, no drugs no begging.

The problem comes when most of these people want to get money but dont want to support themselves.

Thats what ive took from working with homeless.

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4 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Id ban pets.

Get a fucking job then get a pet.

Stop making excuses for these dossers.

Then, whether you like it or not, they'll stay on the streets. 

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1 minute ago, TheBlueCat said:

Then, whether you like it or not, they'll stay on the streets. 

Vagrancy laws. Move them on.

Dossers move yo the easiest policed towns - tourist areas.

You rarely see people begging in poorer areas without tourists.

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1 minute ago, spygirl said:

Nope. Not where i am.

There needs to be a system where a person is declared unfit to manage their affairs.

In which case they are out in a system that supports them. But they have to accept no choice over their life - no booze, no drugs no begging.

The problem comes when most of these people want to get money but dont want to support themselves.

Thats what ive took from working with homeless.

There isn't a perfect system; the current one is good enough IMO but needs (as so many things do) more money spent upon it to increase the number of hostel bed spaces and front line support workers.

Though do you prioritise "difficult" people of working age over the disabled and sick? Probably not.

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Just now, spygirl said:

Vagrancy laws. Move them on.

Dossers move yo the easiest policed towns - tourist areas.

You rarely see people begging in poorer areas without tourists.

Then they come back - has ever been thus. At some point, for a core of homeless people, you either have to accept that they're staying on the streets or that you're going to have to offer them something that is, in their terms not yours, more attractive. Either that or lock them up I guess.

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5 minutes ago, TheBlueCat said:

Then, whether you like it or not, they'll stay on the streets. 

Youre falling into the same problems as the bleeding hearts - dont acvomate demands or requirements.

No conditions. Turn up and do what your told.

These people are on the streets because theyve mainly made fucked up choices. They have to change totally.

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1 minute ago, spygirl said:

Youre falling into the same problems as the bleeding hearts - dont acvomate demands or requirements.

No I'm not, I'm going with long established reality. The Victorians, for example, were absolutely brutal - far beyond anything I think even you would suggest - with vagrants and yet they still had them. 

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Just now, TheBlueCat said:

No I'm not, I'm going with long established reality. The Victorians, for example, were absolutely brutal - far beyond anything I think even you would suggest - with vagrants and yet they still had them. 

Not enough work.

There needs to be a frsmework.

But it should not be driven by the whims and demands of the dossers.

Been there. Helped out a mate, who was into help the homeless.

Accomidating them did not help them - fundementally their choices got them into the mess.

Just dont give them money. And enforce vagrancy laws.

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3 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Just dont give them money. And enforce vagrancy laws.

Sure, go for it, it won't get the hard core of them off the streets though, I can guarantee you that much. 

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1 minute ago, TheBlueCat said:

Sure, go for it, it won't get the hard core of them off the streets though, I can guarantee you that much. 

Which is why were commenting - these people, fundementally, are not homeless. They are dossers.

I can and have dealt with homeless - temporary accomodation, sort out benefits, rehoused. Takes a couple of months but, with some money and telephining, is sorted.

What steptoe is labelling honeless arent homeless. They are scum. Theyll convert all the money to booze glue or smack. Then whinge they are homeless. Or ex army - which they rarely  are.

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9 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Which is why were commenting - these people, fundementally, are not homeless. They are dossers.

I can and have dealt with homeless - temporary accomodation, sort out benefits, rehoused. Takes a couple of months but, with some money and telephining, is sorted.

What steptoe is labelling honeless arent homeless. They are scum. Theyll convert all the money to booze glue or smack. Then whinge they are homeless. Or ex army - which they rarely  are.

I wouldn't care to comment on the exact mix of people Steptoe is talking about - some may well be dossers who can be forced to sort themselves out - but the reality is (and I do know something about this through voluntary work I do in Toronto ) that the bulk of people who are genuinely living rough long term (as opposed to doing a day job as a beggar before going back home of an evening) cannot be forced off the streets unless you're prepared to lock them up to achieve it. That's the choice, confine them through the criminal justice system or provide them with something they determine to be a better option, otherwise they'll keep on sleeping outside. Another thing I can tell you is that they don't often actually give a shit about being helped. When we have a cold weather warning in Toronto (-15C or below) the cops have to go out looking for these people to stop them freezing en-masse. Even the threat of imminent death will not get them into a shelter if they don't want to go there.

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If they accommodate the homeless where will the immigrants live.  Didn't Steptoe recently say all the new housing in future years should be to house all the new arrivals.

He's just headlining for the sake of it - today one cause tomorrow another cause.

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4 hours ago, spygirl said:

Nope. Not where i am.

There needs to be a system where a person is declared unfit to manage their affairs.

In which case they are out in a system that supports them. But they have to accept no choice over their life - no booze, no drugs no begging.

The problem comes when most of these people want to get money but dont want to support themselves.

Thats what ive took from working with homeless.

this'd work but cost a fortune to manage them.

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