• Welcome to DOSBODS

    Please consider creating a free account to be able to access all the features of the DOSBODS community. It only takes 20 seconds!

Sign in to follow this  
Frank Hovis

Health and Safety stupidity

Recommended Posts

Retired health and saftey inspector (they clearly don't stop being total knobs when they retire) takes this photo:

48BD3C4200000578-0-image-a-1_15173898380

This is a self-employed scaffolder (at the top) and his apprentice below.
 

Quote

 

Murray, of Blackburn, pleaded guilty to failing to take reasonable care for either himself or others who may have been affected by his acts and omissions while at work.

District Judge Mark Hadfield adjourned the case when Murray, who was not represented by a lawyer, admitted he hadn't realised he could be sent to prison for the offence.

When Judge Hadfield suggested he get himself a lawyer, Murray said: 'What if I can't afford it?'

The judge replied: 'That's a matter for you. If I were you, I'd get legal representation.'

 

If he had been putting his apprentice at risk then fair enough but if an experienced scaffolder with his own firm chooses to stand on a plank without all the clips then he is putting nobody at risk bar himself and that's surely up to him.  If somebody with their own repairs garage chooses to look under cars without chocks, axle stands whatever then I would have thought that it was up to them.  But if a retired health and safety inspector comes round and photographs them then they could go to prison.

I really fail to see what the crime is here.  That scaffolder is taking a tiny fraction of the risk of injury of a boxer, rugby player, footballer, banger racer, FI driver etc. most of whom are employees.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5334011/Scaffolder-faces-jail-breaching-safety-law.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Retired health and saftey inspector (they clearly don't stop being total knobs when they retire) takes this photo:

48BD3C4200000578-0-image-a-1_15173898380

This is a self-employed scaffolder (at the top) and his apprentice below.
 

If he had been putting his apprentice at risk then fair enough but if an experienced scaffolder with his own firm chooses to stand on a plank without all the clips then he is putting nobody at risk bar himself and that's surely up to him.  If somebody with their own repairs garage chooses to look under cars without chocks, axle stands whatever then I would have thought that it was up to them.  But if a retired health and safety inspector comes round and photographs them then they could go to prison.

I really fail to see what the crime is here.  That scaffolder is taking a tiny fraction of the risk of injury of a boxer, rugby player, footballer, banger racer, FI driver etc. most of whom are employees.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5334011/Scaffolder-faces-jail-breaching-safety-law.html

Should have listened to the Judge and got himself a lawyer...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, SpectrumFX said:

It's health and safety gone mad!

xD

 

All of this is really about control. These people don't care about your safety, or welfare. All they care is that you do what you're fucking told.

I woud lock them in one small room with huge blow-ups of this plastered over the walls until they become insane.

8678.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Accidents don`t happen when you know you are in a perilous situation,they happen when you think you are in a safe environment and it`s not ,a false sense of security is the most dangerous situation on any site 

That scaffolder knows exactly what danger hes in and where that danger is  

The trouble with elf and safety now is that there`s so many who jumped on the bandwagon which have never worked /been on a site before they sat there NEBOSH course

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, SNACR said:

65ft with no harness??

They call that working at height?

 

I used to fucking love watching Fred. What a legend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If he was a danger to others I would have a teeny bit of sympathy for the justice system..  not a lot because he looks like he knows what he’s doing,  but a little bit because other people might be put at some very minimal risk.

In this case though it appears that if he falls off he’ll just land inside the cordoned off area below...  all that would do is make a mess.

If the courts want to protect us from others..  yes..  that’s fine to a limited extent..  but protect him from himself by destroying his business and probably any wealth he was planning to pass on to his children..  that’s completely pointless and stupid.  If he leaves the court and commits suicide after the stress and sense of injustice what exactly have they achieved?  Killed him for his own good?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Long time lurking said:

Accidents don`t happen when you know you are in a perilous situation,they happen when you think you are in a safe environment and it`s not ,a false sense of security is the most dangerous situation on any site 

That scaffolder knows exactly what danger hes in and where that danger is  

The trouble with elf and safety now is that there`s so many who jumped on the bandwagon which have never worked /been on a site before they sat there NEBOSH course

 

I suppose the argument might be that H&S protects the business owner from their own enthusiasm.  And, if it was common for the owner to take a few risks (on themselves) and in the process cut costs by a noticeable amount, then no-one would be able to compete without also taking those risks, etc.

That said, he shouldn't be anywhere near close to jail time for it -- a hard rap on the knuckles would be about right.

The thing I don't get is why wouldn't he be wearing a fall arrest strap?  They're dirt cheap and hardly much bother.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, dgul said:

I suppose the argument might be that H&S protects the business owner from their own enthusiasm.  And, if it was common for the owner to take a few risks (on themselves) and in the process cut costs by a noticeable amount, then no-one would be able to compete without also taking those risks, etc.

Also no apprentice would want to wear a harness if the "boss" doesn't wear one. They would rather die than have the piss taken out of them by the other workers.

So you end up in the situation that nobody wears one.

Hard hats were the same back in the day, but now they all wear one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

25 fatalities from falls from height and 41,000 reportable injuries in 2017. The number of unreported will run into hundreds of thousands. The cost of these injuries to the economy is significant. 

Even if one disregards the welfare of the self employed there is still the possibility they fall on someone else or require massive care costs if they end up crippled. 

I suppose that may explain why they have the Working at Height Regulations 2005 ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, dgul said:

I suppose the argument might be that H&S protects the business owner from their own enthusiasm.  And, if it was common for the owner to take a few risks (on themselves) and in the process cut costs by a noticeable amount, then no-one would be able to compete without also taking those risks, etc.

That said, he shouldn't be anywhere near close to jail time for it -- a hard rap on the knuckles would be about right.

The thing I don't get is why wouldn't he be wearing a fall arrest strap?  They're dirt cheap and hardly much bother.

He won't get jail for this - this is just Daily Mail clickbait 

He has pleaded guilty, the hazard didn't materialise as causing any actual harm. This will result in a fine based on the turnover of his business. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

Retired health and saftey inspector (they clearly don't stop being total knobs when they retire) takes this photo:

48BD3C4200000578-0-image-a-1_15173898380

This is a self-employed scaffolder (at the top) and his apprentice below.
 

If he had been putting his apprentice at risk then fair enough but if an experienced scaffolder with his own firm chooses to stand on a plank without all the clips then he is putting nobody at risk bar himself and that's surely up to him.  If somebody with their own repairs garage chooses to look under cars without chocks, axle stands whatever then I would have thought that it was up to them.  But if a retired health and safety inspector comes round and photographs them then they could go to prison.

I really fail to see what the crime is here.  That scaffolder is taking a tiny fraction of the risk of injury of a boxer, rugby player, footballer, banger racer, FI driver etc. most of whom are employees.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5334011/Scaffolder-faces-jail-breaching-safety-law.html

Breaching Regulation 8 of the Working at Heights Regs 2005. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair, the top scaffolder only  has to trip on a nail in the boards to go over the edge. Prison is obviously disproportionate, but heavy fines as a deterrent have their place. Otherwise you get self employed being pushed by customers to take big safety risks to be competitive. The standard of scaffolding for the end user has increased noticeably in recent years and presumably this is largely down to regulation. Big respect for the scaffolders, a demanding job performed in difficult conditions

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Caravan Monster said:

To be fair, the top scaffolder only  has to trip on a nail in the boards to go over the edge. Prison is obviously disproportionate, but heavy fines as a deterrent have their place. Otherwise you get self employed being pushed by customers to take big safety risks to be competitive. The standard of scaffolding for the end user has increased noticeably in recent years and presumably this is largely down to regulation. Big respect for the scaffolders, a demanding job performed in difficult conditions

‘Pleb’ jobs get prison time. Should have trained as a ‘healthcare’ professional or banker.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Caravan Monster said:

Otherwise you get self employed being pushed by customers to take big safety risks.

Take a day in the life of the average aerial rigger - if you applied health and safety customers would be paying £500 just to get freeview.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, OurDayWillCome said:

Take a day in the life of the average aerial rigger - if you applied health and safety customers would be paying £500 just to get freeview.

Going OT for a moment, the same applies to roofers fitting solar panels.

Someone worked out that this is so dangerous , the fatalities per kW of power from rooftop solar panels must outstrip fatalities from coal and nuclear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He has taken the piss and lets be fair, people like him are adding to the house price inflation / property developing mania by money grubbing any job they can and riding roughshod over planning application protests by local residents. 

Bang him up i say.

If you want to play the game lets play i say! 

The way to win with these types is to enforce the rules on them, every little bit of agitation slowly chips away at them. 

I was a H&S officer in a large defence co. 

I love it when they "blow up" & "kick off" a court apperance is a good straightner for them. 

You see, a one man bander / self employed / umbrella type contractor should not be able to make a go of it in the UK without cutting corners, so when you see one you know they will be "at it" 

Really ultimately i'd like to see H&S tie up with HMRC and pass on any breeches for a full tax audit too.

Edited by WorkingPoor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Kurt Barlow said:

25 fatalities from falls from height and 41,000 reportable injuries in 2017. The number of unreported will run into hundreds of thousands. The cost of these injuries to the economy is significant. 

Even if one disregards the welfare of the self employed there is still the possibility they fall on someone else or require massive care costs if they end up crippled. 

I suppose that may explain why they have the Working at Height Regulations 2005 ;-)

25 in 70 million doesn’t sound so terrible..  I would have thought there would be more than that just from rock climbing accidents or similar past times.   Of the injuries,  I guess it depends a lot on the degree as you say..  I don’t think this guy would have walked away though..  I’m not sure who you think he would land on either..  looks to me as though there is no public access below.

I’m not arguing the law isn’t on your side..  but the law can be a bit of an ass,  especially when applied judiciously in cases like this where the guy looks like he is pretty competent,  doesn’t appear to be a direct threat to anyone else and isn’t putting his employees at risk.  It all seems a bit sad and a lot unnecessary. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, swissy_fit said:

Strong old bugger. Even on a ladder, overhangs are tough.

Don't forget he's dragged all those ladders up by hand and they're wooden not alu. I can't find it up Youtube but he went up a cathedral spire on ladders for a BBC Doc fifteen years later. There's lots of great moments in the later documentaries of him prancing around on top of castles and cathedrals to the obvious disquiet of his guides. 

I shit you not the only injury he had requiring hospitalisation was when he fell off his bed changing a light bulb, he died of bladder cancer.

Nelson's Column's is considerably shorter and Noakes was a much younger man but I still give him full balls of steel credit for climbing it with a pair of flares on.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.