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One percent

202 different nationalities working in the NHS

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Sophie Gaston - Acting Director, Demos.

"There is a very strong expression of what I would call welfare chauvinism.

The idea that some people should have access to our social state, and others shouldn't.

That people that have the access, it should be earned by their social and economic contribution."

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And of the 201 nations that they come from, how many are struggling with difficulties in getting staff for their own health service because their nationals are seduced by more money from overseas by countries that haven't invested in training for their own health service.

hrh_012.jpg?ua=1

But I suppose we don't need to worry about those foreign countries, who cares about them.  Let's just debate how wonderful immigration is to our marvellous health service.

And that map above underplays the many serious problems across Europe (the EU, yeah for the EU!)....  http://careers.bmj.com/careers/advice/Shortage_of_doctors_across_Europe_may_be_caused_by_migration_to_UK

Quote

Too few people training as health professionals caused shortages in most of the EU15 countries (Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, UK, Austria, Finland, and Sweden). But in newer EU member states, such as Poland, labour mobility played a large role. “Old member states use targeted recruiting, which combined with better salaries and working conditions, leads to labour mobility and consequent labour shortages in countries of origin,” the report said.

But stuff Poland.  If they can't keep their own staff in their country, tough.  The EU is wonderful and saying otherwise is about as racist as you can get.  And anyway it's the NHS that they're going to -- it is like the government department equivalent of Mother Theresa.

Edited by dgul

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2 minutes ago, Bedrag Justesen said:

Sophie Gaston - Acting Director, Demos.

"There is a very strong expression of what I would call welfare chauvinism.

The idea that some people should have access to our social state, and others shouldn't.

That people that have the access, it should be earned by their social and economic contribution."

Is she arguing this as a good or bad thing?  

If a bad thing, every fucking penny and thing she owns should be taken off her to pay for it. 

2 minutes ago, dgul said:

And of the 201 nations that they come from, how many are struggling with difficulties in getting staff for their own health service because their nationals are seduced by more money from overseas by countries that haven't invested in training for their own health service.

hrh_012.jpg?ua=1

But I suppose we don't need to worry about those foreign countries, who cares about them.  Let's just debate how wonderful immigration is to our marvellous health service.

And that map above underplays the many serious problems across Europe (the EU, yeah for the EU!)....  http://careers.bmj.com/careers/advice/Shortage_of_doctors_across_Europe_may_be_caused_by_migration_to_UK

But stuff Poland.  If they can't keep their own staff in their country, tough.  The EU is wonderful and saying otherwise is about as racist as you can get.  And anyway it's the NHS that they're going to -- it is like the government equivalent of Mother Theresa.

Mind, the Africans and Asians they are sending us, I don’t think they are sending the best. 

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2 minutes ago, 201p said:

So Brexit should not have any adverse effect on the NHS?

Au contraire.

If we get it right there may well be a 40% reduction in demand for midwives.

 

Edited by Cunning Plan

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1 minute ago, Bedrag Justesen said:

Not sure.

Focus Group report Citizens' Voices'.

" The key theme that came out of all the focus groups that we did. Was a sense that Britain is fundamentally on the wrong track. "

Well she in not wrong there. 

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45 minutes ago, dgul said:

And of the 201 nations that they come from, how many are struggling with difficulties in getting staff for their own health service because their nationals are seduced by more money from overseas by countries that haven't invested in training for their own health service.

Australia and New Zealand take our trained health workers.

Fair enough in itself, so long as they pay back the cost of their training before they leave.

Maybe they do.

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19 minutes ago, Bedrag Justesen said:

Australia and New Zealand take our trained health workers.

Fair enough in itself, so long as they pay back the cost of their training before they leave.

Maybe they do.

Ha!

When Romania complained about all its midwives going abroad for money the EU's response was 'just get some more from Africa'.

It is a crazy complex conveyor belt of healthcare personnel; it would be surely be far easier if each country just kept all the staff it required (fine, export the surplus).

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41 minutes ago, dgul said:

Ha!

When Romania complained about all its midwives going abroad for money the EU's response was 'just get some more from Africa'.

It is a crazy complex conveyor belt of healthcare personnel; it would be surely be far easier if each country just kept all the staff it required (fine, export the surplus).

Most of the Eastern European states have major shortages of doctors, because they can earn ten times as much by moving to the UK or Scandinavia. 

The EE countries can't import doctors from the third world to make up the shortfall, even if they wanted to, as it takes years to learn languages like Hungarian or Czech to the level where you are not going to risk killing a patient through misunderstandings. And why would they bother to do that when they can get a job in the UK on ten times as much as they would get in Budapest or Prague. 

But hey, the EU and the NHS are the two greatest, most humane and loving institutions ever created by mankind, so maybe I've got it wrong. 

 

Edited by Austin Allegro

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3 minutes ago, Austin Allegro said:

Most of the Eastern European states have major shortages of doctors, because they can earn ten times as much by moving to the UK or Scandinavia. 

The EE countries can't import doctors from the third world to make up the shortfall, even if they wanted to, as it takes years to learn languages like Hungarian or Czech to the level where you are not going to risk killing a patient through misunderstandings. And why would they bother to do that when they can get a job in the UK on ten times as much as they would get in Budapest or Prague. 

But hey, the EU and the NHS are the two greatest, most humane and loving institutions ever created by mankind, so maybe I've got it wrong. 

 

Not being able to speak English well doesn’t appear to be a bar here. 

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Just now, One percent said:

Not being able to speak English well doesn’t appear to be a bar here. 

True, but most Indian and African doctors have at least some knowledge of English from our evil colonial past. If you imagine how hard it can sometimes be to understand doctors from India (which is a country where English is an official language) just imagine how difficult it would be to understand them if they were trying to speak Czech or Romanian. 

That said, I did know an African doctor in Hungary, who had come over under a communist scheme to influence developing countries. He spoke perfect Hungarian and was a lovely gentleman. But it's unlikely someone like him would make the same move today - he would just go to the UK. 

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57 minutes ago, Austin Allegro said:

True, but most Indian and African doctors have at least some knowledge of English from our evil colonial past. If you imagine how hard it can sometimes be to understand doctors from India (which is a country where English is an official language) just imagine how difficult it would be to understand them if they were trying to speak Czech or Romanian. 

That said, I did know an African doctor in Hungary, who had come over under a communist scheme to influence developing countries. He spoke perfect Hungarian and was a lovely gentleman. But it's unlikely someone like him would make the same move today - he would just go to the UK. 

Anglo africa, which is a very small percentage.

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48FDAF6000000578-5367011-The_House_of_Co

Interesting wnen you compare numbers against countries population.

Ireland. No surprise. Close, same language, rough economy. Uks been acting as an escape to the Irish for centuries.

Indian. Big number, tiny compared to Indian population.

Phillipino. Nation if english speaking nurses.

The interesting ines, to me, are the numbers of Spanish, Portuguese and Italian. 10 -20 years ago these nations would barely register. 10 odd years of Euro crisis and EU driven spending cuts....

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1 minute ago, spygirl said:

48FDAF6000000578-5367011-The_House_of_Co

Interesting wnen you compare numbers against countries population.

Ireland. No surprise. Close, same language, rough economy. Uks been acting as an escape to the Irish for centuries.

Indian. Big number, tiny compared to Indian population.

Phillipino. Nation if english speaking nurses.

The interesting ines, to me, are the numbers of Spanish, Portuguese and Italian. 10 -20 years ago these nations would barely register. 10 odd years of Euro crisis and EU driven spending cuts....

There were quite a few Spaniards and Italians working as domestics in the NHS hospital where I worked in the 1970s. Mark you their job like tbvat of Doctors and Nurses often came with accommodation in that era.

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2 minutes ago, Virgil Caine said:

There were quite a few Spaniards and Italians working as domestics in the NHS hospital where I worked in the 1970s. Mark you their job like tbvat of Doctors and Nurses often came with accommodation in that era.

A family friend was in hospitsl over xmas.

I visited 3 times. Id guess 30% of nurses were portguese or italian. I was expecting phillipinos.

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Just another artificially manufactured shortage. 

We have lots of students, lots of universities and lots of hospitals. We have been doing this shit for hundreds of years. Simply train the people you need for the NHS to function. Easy. What next? They will be telling us there is a shortage of land! Or Money!

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Rarely, ive news at 10 on - netflux has finished.

Headline story - nhs being in crisis, nurse saying all our goodwill being used.

Mrs soy - italuan - goes why the fuck is nhs in the news allthe time.

Me, we should s rap it, sack everyone and start again.

Its nuts. Totally fucking soviet.

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At one point I was trying to get a basic idea of what opportunities might exist for retraining to work in the nhs. Maybe I was making a poor job of it, but couldn't even find any suggestions about a recruitment office to contact. Would of thought they might try a bit harder if there is such a recruitment crisis.

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