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Virgil Caine

Lunar New Year -Chinese Gala Includes Racist Blackface

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The shock horror outrage is getting a bit wearing now.

I didn't like the Black and White Minstrels for one simple reason: it was dire end of the pier entertainment.  I was only offended by it in the sense that in those days the alternative, which was frequently taken, was to turn off the telly.  I was very young so actually thought they were black rather than made up and wondered why the So-Called BBC had this obsession with black men being with white women.  Nothing changes at Auntie Beeb.

Although had they done a few more like this I might have become a fan:

 

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I am less interested in the 'blackface' angle of the story and more in the fact that  I don't think those protesting realise that the 'rules of engagement' that they apply this subject are not going to work in China or the rest of Asia. 

Most of the people who get outraged on these sort of topics have scripts predicated on how the west has treated other cultures down the centuries. Ironically their views assume they are dealing with people who buy into European or North American cultural values on things such as collective guilt, repentance etc. These are things almost entirely absent from East Asian societies.  I don't think the usual SJW tropes with their implicit neo colonialist mind set are going to work here.

Edited by Virgil Caine

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56 minutes ago, dgul said:

Blackface is one of those strange things.  I don't really want it to exist (because it is boring), but it surely sits alongside things like the pantomime dame (which insults trans and women) or drag acts (ditto), adults dressing as kids, kids dressing as adults, young people putting on prosthetics to look like old people, etc.

I'm kind of happy to accept that some people find things offensive and stop them -- but only real offence.  We've got to a position now where people are desperately looking for things to be offended by...

That said, I'm doubly happy with stopping things like blackface because it stops the minstrels, which really weren't very entertaining.

 

But, anyway, there is one aspect in that report that I find very disturbing:

The blackface minstrels weren't condescending.  This is inventing racism where it didn't exist at the time.  There was and is dreadful racism in the world, but there's no need to invent more.

'Minstrels' where white people blacking up because everyone wanted to hear 'black' music (dixieland, etc) and that was the only way they could get a job.  It is the equivalent of black people having to white up in order to get a job.   By the 1930's it was a pastiche of that -- no-one really knew why they were blackface, they just were.  By the 1970's it was pastiche of pastiche -- a weird thing that made no sense to anyone but that persisted anyway by some sort of cultural inertia.  But it certainly wasn't a deliberate lampooning of black people.

[It just seems to me to be similar as the whole suffragette thing -- for the 'common-man',  women in the UK got the vote on equal terms 10 years after males.  For most of the middle-class, women got the vote 34 years after males.  For the wealthy, women had a period of 90 years without the vote.  Yet the history revisionists make out that it is all because of a deeply rooted political sexism that existed through history.  ]

Minstrels were a crude 1920s version of white rappers.

 

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27 minutes ago, Virgil Caine said:

I am less interested in the 'blackface' angle of the story and more in the fact that  I don't think those protesting realise that the 'rules of engagement' that they apply this subject are not going to work in China or the rest of Asia. 

Most of the people who get outraged on these sort of topics have scripts predicated on how the west has treated other cultures down the centuries. Ironically their views assume they are dealing with people who buy into European or North American cultural values on things such as collective guilt, repentance etc. These are things almost entirely absent from East Asian societies.  I don't think the usual SJW tropes with their implicit neo colonialist mind set are going to work here.

You're not wrong.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/digitaliberties/chenchen-zhang/curious-rise-of-white-left-as-chinese-internet-insult

Quote

The curious rise of the ‘white left’ as a Chinese internet insult

Baizuo (白左), or literally, the ‘white left’. It first emerged about two years ago, and yet has quickly become one of the most popular derogatory descriptions for Chinese netizens to discredit their opponents in online debates. 

<snip>

Although the emphasis varies, baizuo is used generally to describe those who “only care about topics such as immigration, minorities, LGBT and the environment” and “have no sense of real problems in the real world”; they are hypocritical humanitarians who advocate for peace and equality only to “satisfy their own feeling of moral superiority”; they are “obsessed with political correctness” to the extent that they “tolerate backwards Islamic values for the sake of multiculturalism”; they believe in the welfare state that “benefits only the idle and the free riders”; they are the “ignorant and arrogant westerners” who “pity the rest of the world and think they are saviours”. 

 

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21 minutes ago, Hail the Tripod said:

 

  50 minutes ago, Virgil Caine said:

I am less interested in the 'blackface' angle of the story and more in the fact that  I don't think those protesting realise that the 'rules of engagement' that they apply this subject are not going to work in China or the rest of Asia. 

Most of the people who get outraged on these sort of topics have scripts predicated on how the west has treated other cultures down the centuries. Ironically their views assume they are dealing with people who buy into European or North American cultural values on things such as collective guilt, repentance etc. These are things almost entirely absent from East Asian societies.  I don't think the usual SJW tropes with their implicit neo colonialist mind set are going to work here.

You're not wrong.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/digitaliberties/chenchen-zhang/curious-rise-of-white-left-as-chinese-internet-insult

  Quote

The curious rise of the ‘white left’ as a Chinese internet insult

Baizuo (白左), or literally, the ‘white left’. It first emerged about two years ago, and yet has quickly become one of the most popular derogatory descriptions for Chinese netizens to discredit their opponents in online debates. 

<snip>

Although the emphasis varies, baizuo is used generally to describe those who “only care about topics such as immigration, minorities, LGBT and the environment” and “have no sense of real problems in the real world”; they are hypocritical humanitarians who advocate for peace and equality only to “satisfy their own feeling of moral superiority”; they are “obsessed with political correctness” to the extent that they “tolerate backwards Islamic values for the sake of multiculturalism”; they believe in the welfare state that “benefits only the idle and the free riders”; they are the “ignorant and arrogant westerners” who “pity the rest of the world and think they are saviours”. 

 

Isn't this just THE perfect succinct summary of the whole tiresome SJW topics ...?

THIS should be pinned.

 

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1 minute ago, DeepLurker said:

Baizuo  - I'm going to try and use that term when I post on other forums :)

Definitely a term that I will be using too.

The fact it is derived from outside our culture adds that extra piquancy.

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21 minutes ago, Bedrag Justesen said:

Baizuo, just flown it over the TWATS (The Women AT Work ) - never heard of it, brief summary given.

Met with the Cathy Newman 1000 yard stare of silence.

The whole article is pretty amusing. Firstly, it's written by a baizuo twat in a tone of puzzlement over how the Chinese could have so misunderstood the current zeitgeist of Western politics, which is funny.

Quote

However, Chinese netizens’ fierce attacks against the ‘white left’ seem curiously devoid of experiential motivation, since all these problems that conservatives in the west are concerned about – immigration, multiculturalism, minority rights, and affirmative actions – are largely unknown to Chinese society. This is not to say that discrimination against women and ethnic, religious and sexual minorities do not exist in China. They are no less serious or structural here than in any other societies. But cultural and identity politics has never gained much salience as political issues under an authoritarian regime, although feminist activists have received increased attention recently. Overall, there has been ‘too little’, rather than ‘too much’ political correctness as perceived by conservatives in the west.   

Secondly there are some other choice words:

Quote

The term first became influential amidst the European refugee crisis, and Angela Merkel was the first western politician to be labelled as a baizuo for her open-door refugee policy. Hungary, on the other hand, was praised by Chinese netizens for its hard line on refugees, if not for its authoritarian leader. Around the same time another derogatory name that was often used alongside baizuo was shengmu (圣母) – literally the ‘holy mother’ – which according to its users refers to those who are ‘overemotional’, ‘hypocritical’ and ‘have too much empathy’. The criticisms of baizuo and shengmu soon became an online smear campaign targeted at not only public figures such as J. K. Rowling and Emma Watson, but also volunteers, social workers and all other ordinary citizens, whether in Europe or China, who express any sympathy with international refugees.

But also because it makes an accidental mockery of Amnesty International fake news.

Quote

In May 2016, Amnesty International published their survey results indicating that the most welcoming country for refugees was China. Leaving the reliability of its sample and methodology aside, this finding was not at all taken as a compliment in the Chinese media. Global Times conducted their own online survey in response to Amnesty’s claim, and the results were quite the opposite: 90.3% said ‘no’ to the question ‘would you accept refugees in your own household?’ and 79.6% said ‘no’ to the question ‘would you accept refugees in your city, or would you like to be neighbours with refugees?’. Ironically, Amnesty’s portrayal of China as a welcoming country for displaced people was even read by some netizens as part of a foreign conspiracy, intended to pressure the Chinese government to accept more refugees.

 The only way to make sense of this? For once, it's not machinations by the evil Russkies, it's the (not "proper Communist") government of China: 

Quote

The Chinese government has been known to hire a large number of ‘internet commentators’ (known as the 50 cent party) to fabricate social media posts. According to a recent research conducted by scholars at Harvard University, 29% of the ‘accused 50 cent posts’ they investigated fall into the category of ‘taunting of foreign countries. It is nonetheless impossible to know whether these accused posts are indeed written by government employees. Similarly, it is hard to tell whether some of the criticisms of baizuo are coming from fabricated commentators-for-hire. 

xD

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6 hours ago, Virgil Caine said:

Enjoy

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-asia-china-43081218

Time for all the SJW to show their solidarity with black people by abandoning their mobile phones and reverting to communicating by letter.

Exaggerated buttocks lol, I don't remember seeing that on the Black and White Minstrels Show

Edited by Panther

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5 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

The shock horror outrage is getting a bit wearing now.

I didn't like the Black and White Minstrels for one simple reason: it was dire end of the pier entertainment.  I was only offended by it in the sense that in those days the alternative, which was frequently taken, was to turn off the telly.  I was very young so actually thought they were black rather than made up and wondered why the So-Called BBC had this obsession with black men being with white women.  Nothing changes at Auntie Beeb.

Although had they done a few more like this I might have become a fan:

 

They must have had their reasons why they weren't all blacked up (white males and females) or why they didn't have the white females blacked up along with white males.

Didn't the idea originate in America - Al Jolson etc.  

Yet again an issue to beat up the British public with.

I didn't think the shows were in the least insulting or offensive to people of colour.  In fact they seemed to be entirely benevolent in the society as it was at the time.

 

Quote

 

Edited by twocents

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