• Welcome to DOSBODS

    Please consider creating a free account to be able to access all the features of the DOSBODS community. It only takes 20 seconds!

Sign in to follow this  
spygirl

Education, education, education

Recommended Posts

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-43106736

'The prime minister is to call for better value for students in England, admitting they face "one of the most expensive systems of university tuition in the world".'

Another success brought to you by Blair + Brown.

spys solution.

Risk split between student, UKGOV + college.

Track students earnings after graduation.

Stop funding courses where more than 50% of students fail to student loan within 5 years of graduating.

Shutdown any college produces graduates where 70%+ of grads dont pay backloan within 50%. Claw back 5 years pay and pension from all people working there.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its not the fact that the UKs is the ost expensive, its the fact that 70% of graduates will be doing jobs they dont needs a degree for.

Its a total, expensive disaster.

Tax payers and kids are being stitiched up to pay for people working in the HE sector.

All becasue education, like chairdee and the NHS, required Brown to pour billions in, all for nothing but signalling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Its not the fact that the UKs is the ost expensive, its the fact that 70% of graduates will be doing jobs they dont needs a degree for.

AND not doing degrees we need doing. 

(That shortage of docs and nurses isn't going to heal itself, although some arguments exist for de-degreeing the nursing thing)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, sarahbell said:

AND not doing degrees we need doing. 

(That shortage of docs and nurses isn't going to heal itself, although some arguments exist for de-degreeing the nursing thing)

Indeed.

They bang on about the cost of training a Dr.

But then spend 50% of the money putting 10,000 hru Uni for pointless degree.

The cause of meidcla traiing/degrees is down to the BMA (Drs union) setting the number of places.

That needs killing dead.

I have an emgryo of new rant thread building up. Ive noed various news article that pouint to one thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is going to end up as a disaster.  There are very few decent vocational courses and apprenticeships.  Successive governments have put paid to high quality vocational education in a desperate attempt to hide unemployment figures.  

They have compounded this by insisting that no student fails. So, no matter whether the student actually turns up, they can still pass.  This is enabled through assessment by assignment and the teachers are under enormous pressure to basically tell the students what to write.

The whole thing is a corrupt and fraudulent mess and has devalued vocational qualifications to the point that they are not worth the paper they are written on

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found this diagramme on the So-Called BBC site.

Words fail - the amount added in interest to the loan BEFORE graduation is over 5K.  Usurious money lending at its best. Bastards should be hanged for this

 

_100089647_student_debt_england_640-nc.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, One percent said:

This is going to end up as a disaster.  There are very few decent vocational courses and apprenticeships.  Successive governments have put paid to high quality vocational education in a desperate attempt to hide unemployment figures.  

They have compounded this by insisting that no student fails. So, no matter whether the student actually turns up, they can still pass.  This is enabled through assessment by assignment and the teachers are under enormous pressure to basically tell the students what to write.

The whole thing is a corrupt and fraudulent mess and has devalued vocational qualifications to the point that they are not worth the paper they are written on

Not even that.

The expansion of Unis have been in non-vocational degrees - EngLit, History etc.

The number of vocational/employable Grads has barely shifted over 15 years.

Basically the HE sector/UKGOV have created an expensive Dole.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Not even that.

The expansion of Unis have been in non-vocational degrees - EngLit, History etc.

The number of vocational/employable Grads has barely shifted over 15 years.

Basically the HE sector/UKGOV have created an expensive Dole.

Yes and at the same time, they have basically got rid of polytechnics - as we have discussed on here before - thus removing a lot of high quality HE voc ed, to be replaced, like you say with more academic subjects (which are not necessarily a bad thing in their own right).

They have also completely undermined and done away with all the good quality work done by FE colleges.  One reason is as i stated above, another is to provide vocational qualifications as cheaply as possible - a pile them high sell them cheap supermarket model.  One further significant problem is that pay and conditions are so poor in FE that they cannot tempt good, highly qualified people away from their vocational area so the course tend to be taught by those that cannot cut it in the vocational area.  

There are vast swathes of people wandering around with qualifications that actually don't qualify them for anything at all.  To repeat, they are worthless out there in the real world.  

The rot set in when the introduced NVQ (the joke in FE was it stood for Not Very Qualified) in the 90s.  

Thirty years of impoverishing post compulsory education both in FE and HE is going to take a lot of unwinding.  The chickens are coming home to roost on this as there is now a massive skills shortage in most areas - perhaps this is the intention so that the have an excuse to import loads of foreigners prepared to work for less.

This brings me to another issue. Employers treat workers very poorly in vocational areas. There is a building site near me - lots of new houses. One of the local young builders took a contract there.  Then, once he had got rid of all his local work to focus on it, they changed the contract and said, drop your price to meet all these lovely EE builders or lose the contract.  

Given this, why would anyone bother putting any effort into getting a skill. At one point it would buy you better pay and conditions.  No longer so why would you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JackieO said:

Brilliant idea!

No, allow students to go bankrupt after 5 years of not meeting the payment levels, and transfer the debt cost to the MP pension pot as a negative.

That will focus some minds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, wherebee said:

No, allow students to go bankrupt after 5 years of not meeting the payment levels, and transfer the debt cost to the MP pension pot as a negative.

That will focus some minds.

SOmethign has to change.

At the mo. they are dumping debt on 18yo who typically know fuckall of fuckall.

Why should a dumb 18yo bare all he risk?

Make payment of student debt conditional on HE salaries and pensions.

he claims by Unis on employment and eanrings are outrageous lies and they need suing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, spygirl said:

SOmethign has to change.

At the mo. they are dumping debt on 18yo who typically know fuckall of fuckall.

Why should a dumb 18yo bare all he risk?

Make payment of student debt conditional on HE salaries and pensions.

he claims by Unis on employment and eanrings are outrageous lies and they need suing.

I think part of the problem and why they introduced loans (and why not in Scotland?) was that anyone with an EU passport could rock up and get a free uni education coz you have to offer to the rest of Europe what you offer your own nationals.  Loads were taking advantage of this. They would not take advantage of the German or French universities in the same way as, obviously, the English ones are taught in English and in the main, the rest of Europe speaks English.  

So, they were beginning to be swamped with EU nationals and it wasn't sustainable.  I know they thought, let's turn it all into loans and then we can get the money back.  It might stop them coming but if not, at least they are paying for it.

The very slight fly in this particular ointment is that they all fucked off back home anyway and there was then no way, or it was incredibly difficult, to track them and make them pay.

So, here we are with this god awful mess and much of the money is owed by EU bods.  

This is pure speculation and I have not heard this discussed but is my firm view of what it was about. Unless they deliberately went out of their way to completely arse rape a generation.  who knows?  

Back to Scotland.  Most EUers will want to be in England and London in particular.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, One percent said:

One further significant problem is that pay and conditions are so poor in FE that they cannot tempt good, highly qualified people away from their vocational area so the course tend to be taught by those that cannot cut it in the vocational area.  

That's so true.

I wonder, if with a little tweaking we could turn it into a memorable barb.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Bedrag Justesen said:

That's so true.

I wonder, if with a little tweaking we could turn it into a memorable barb.

 

ooh, ooh, me, me!! please!!

Those that can do,

those that can't teach,

those that can't teach, teach teachers  xD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, One percent said:

I think part of the problem and why they introduced loans (and why not in Scotland?) was that anyone with an EU passport could rock up and get a free uni education coz you have to offer to the rest of Europe what you offer your own nationals.  Loads were taking advantage of this. They would not take advantage of the German or French universities in the same way as, obviously, the English ones are taught in English and in the main, the rest of Europe speaks English.  

So, they were beginning to be swamped with EU nationals and it wasn't sustainable.  I know they thought, let's turn it all into loans and then we can get the money back.  It might stop them coming but if not, at least they are paying for it.

The very slight fly in this particular ointment is that they all fucked off back home anyway and there was then no way, or it was incredibly difficult, to track them and make them pay.

So, here we are with this god awful mess and much of the money is owed by EU bods.  

This is pure speculation and I have not heard this discussed but is my firm view of what it was about. Unless they deliberately went out of their way to completely arse rape a generation.  who knows?  

Back to Scotland.  Most EUers will want to be in England and London in particular.  

You got it right here.

 

My niece told me, first hand, about a presenter sent by the education system to their school to talk about going to University.  This CUNT was telling them that the level of salary needed to start repayments was so high that they'd probably never reach it until they were much older and richer, so it wasn't worth worrying about the loans.

you only get to lie like that if you are instructed to fuck over the borrower.  Which they clearly were.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, wherebee said:

You got it right here.

 

My niece told me, first hand, about a presenter sent by the education system to their school to talk about going to University.  This CUNT was telling them that the level of salary needed to start repayments was so high that they'd probably never reach it until they were much older and richer, so it wasn't worth worrying about the loans.

you only get to lie like that if you are instructed to fuck over the borrower.  Which they clearly were.

That is also what FE colleges are telling students.  probably little known but anyone over 19 now has to take out a loan for a course at the local tech.  

What they don't tell you is that they can change the rules at whim.  They will be coming for this from people's estates when they die.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, wherebee said:

You got it right here.

 

My niece told me, first hand, about a presenter sent by the education system to their school to talk about going to University.  This CUNT was telling them that the level of salary needed to start repayments was so high that they'd probably never reach it until they were much older and richer, so it wasn't worth worrying about the loans.

you only get to lie like that if you are instructed to fuck over the borrower.  Which they clearly were.

It kicks in a 25k.

One, thats not a high income -   youd need to survive - not live - in the UK.

Two, the fact there's so few grads earning that is fucking worrying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I`m sure i seen on the news yesterday Wales are subsidising not just UNI fees but living cost to the tune of £8k a year and anything above £3k for fees not sure if this is just for studying in Welsh UNI`s or For the indigenous Welsh to study anywhere  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Long time lurking said:

I`m sure i seen on the news yesterday Wales are subsidising not just UNI fees but living cost to the tune of £8k a year and anything above £3k for fees not sure if this is just for studying in Welsh UNI`s or For the indigenous Welsh to study anywhere  

Ah so it's just England then where the students are financially raped.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, One percent said:

That is also what FE colleges are telling students.  probably little known but anyone over 19 now has to take out a loan for a course at the local tech.  

What they don't tell you is that they can change the rules at whim.  They will be coming for this from people's estates when they die.  

Id prefer the state offered 2 years free post 18 education to everyone who'd not had it.

I used to say post 16 but UKGOV (Brown again) insists you stay til 18, to create work for his voter base ...)

Let people leave eucation at 16.

Keep an offer of 2 years free A levelly type educaiton on the table.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, spygirl said:

Id prefer the state offered 2 years free post 18 education to everyone who'd not had it.

I used to say post 16 but UKGOV (Brown again) insists you stay til 18, to create work for his voter base ...)

Let people leave eucation at 16.

Keep an offer of 2 years free A levelly type educaiton on the table.

 

The raising of the sKool leaving age was to again mask the youth unemployment.  I don't know where they are going as they are not in the FE colleges....who's enrollment figures have tanked in my anecdotal view

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, One percent said:

The raising of the sKool leaving age was to again mask the youth unemployment.  I don't know where they are going as they are not in the FE colleges....who's enrollment figures have tanked in my anecdotal view

Unles they get an apprentichip - inc. modern/slave - they are forced to stay at school doing some sort of made up wank.

Its not even vocational - just pretend crap on tourism or healthcare.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, One percent said:

There are vast swathes of people wandering around with qualifications that actually don't qualify them for anything at all.  To repeat, they are worthless out there in the real world.  

I'm going to stick my neck out and say that a small minority of students should study worthless degrees like English Lit. and Archaeology. We are a wealthy nation and we should have an elite group who study our culture even though this may not generate any wealth. The key is that this should be done on a strict meritocracy and quota system. Only the best 100 history students (or whatever) should be allowed to go to university, probably Oxbridge. No need for Worksop Technical College of Adult University to run a history course.

Establish the quotas, enforce the meritocracy and fund the brightest and the best to do the study. As usual, the least important issue - money - is front and centre and even worse it is actively weaponised. How can a country get it so wrong?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, spygirl said:

It kicks in a 25k.

One, thats not a high income -   youd need to survive - not live - in the UK.

Two, the fact there's so few grads earning that is fucking worrying.

+100

Second year apprentices are earning  more than that in my game (yes theres overtime involved ) but it`s also Wales 

4 minutes ago, One percent said:

Ah so it's just England then where the students are financially raped.  

You know we have wool fetish 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, spygirl said:

Unles they get an apprentichip - inc. modern/slave - they are forced to stay at school doing some sort of made up wank.

Its not even vocational - just pretend crap on tourism or healthcare.

Nope apparently there are loads of kids who have just disappeared.  Poof and they've gone.  Not on any dataset at all.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.