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M S E Refugee

German Death Camp Law

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42959076?intlink_from_url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cywd23g0q1mt/poland&link_location=live-reporting-story

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43108116?intlink_from_url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cywd23g0q1mt/poland&link_location=live-reporting-story

The Polish Government was heavily promoting this law when I was in Poland the other week whereby you can go to jail by referring to Polish Death camps rather than German Death camps.

I think it is just posturing by the Polish Government so they can't be blackmailed by Germany to take in Merkel's migrants.

This is top trolling by President Andrzej Duda.

 

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I am not sure what is going on with this. If it is about use of language then you can argue that they are called 'Polish death camps' because it was mainly Poles who died in them - most of the Jews, for example, who died in such camps were Polish. Then there were all the non-Jewish Poles who died... and countless other nationalities including British.

 

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58 minutes ago, M S E Refugee said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42959076?intlink_from_url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cywd23g0q1mt/poland&link_location=live-reporting-story

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43108116?intlink_from_url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cywd23g0q1mt/poland&link_location=live-reporting-story

The Polish Government was heavily promoting this law when I was in Poland the other week whereby you can go to jail by referring to Polish Death camps rather than German Death camps.

I think it is just posturing by the Polish Government so they can't be blackmailed by Germany to take in Merkel's migrants.

This is top trolling by President Andrzej Duda.

 

That`s brilliant on so many levels 

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1 minute ago, The Masked Tulip said:

I am not sure what is going on with this. If it is about use of language then you can argue that they are called 'Polish death camps' because it was mainly Poles who died in them - most of the Jews, for example, who died in such camps were Polish. Then there were all the non-Jewish Poles who died... and countless other nationalities including British.

 

I think Poland just want to be precise in that the camps were built by the Germans and were nothing to do with Poland.

Israel is getting its knickers in a twist about this law by saying that many Polish people committed atrocities against the Jews which is true,but when your whole family or village could be rounded up and shot for harbouring Jews then you can understand why you wouldn't want to be around them,despite this many Poles risked everything to save them.

Israel's protestations reminded me about this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaim_Rumkowski.

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The whole WWII atrocity thing is so complex you're better off never actually mentioning countries.  They should simply be called Nazi death camps.  Then it doesn't matter who built them (Nazis) or staffed them (Nazis).

The Polish laws are extreme, though.  There was a place for anti-Nazi laws in Germany (and other places) following WWII, but that has gone now -- I think people should be free to talk about their thoughts on the concentration camps being made up / exaggerated. And the response, just like for other things like denying the Armenian genocide (I think three countries 'that matter' still officially deny it), should be engagement in debate, and, if necessary, derision.

 

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Just now, dgul said:

The whole WWII atrocity thing is so complex you're better off never actually mentioning countries.  They should simply be called Nazi death camps.  Then it doesn't matter who built them (Nazis) or staffed them (Nazis).


Yes. This. Very much so. 
Am out of reps. 

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1 hour ago, M S E Refugee said:

Israel's protestations reminded me about this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaim_Rumkowski.

 

I have written about him before on here and over on the TOS. Just as he thought that he would be immune to death at the hands of the Nazis by basically doing a lot of dirty work for them... I often think of him when I watch some other appeaaser of islam in Western politics or media.

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Then I think of incrediblly brave people like:

360px-Irena_Sendlerowa_1942.jpg

 

Irena Sendler who smuggled aound 2,500 children out of the ghetto.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irena_Sendler

We must never forget that vast numbers of Poles risked their lives, and many were tortured and murdered, saving the lives of other Poles - Polish Jews in WW2.

We have no comprehension today of what Poland went through. It became a death factory. An experiment for the Nazis where some of the Poles were to be Germanised, some turned into slaves and some murdered. The Germans basically decided to kill off the people of Poland either through slavery or simply by killing them.

 

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3 minutes ago, The Masked Tulip said:

 

I have written about him before on here and over on the TOS. Just as he thought that he would be immune to death at the hands of the Nazis by basically doing a lot of dirty work for them... I often think of him when I watch some other appeaaser of islam in Western politics or media.

I seem to recall last time I read the Wikipedia article it was less than complementary about Rumakowski.

The narrative seems to have softened somewhat.

The other inmates didn't seem to think much of him as they beat him to death.

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6 minutes ago, M S E Refugee said:

I seem to recall last time I read the Wikipedia article it was less than complementary about Rumakowski.

The narrative seems to have softened somewhat.

The other inmates didn't seem to think much of him as they beat him to death.

 

I haven't read it for some time. It would not surprise me if we see rising anti-semitism on such sites sneaked in by the usual suspects.

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1 hour ago, The Masked Tulip said:

Then I think of incrediblly brave people like:

360px-Irena_Sendlerowa_1942.jpg

 

Irena Sendler who smuggled aound 2,500 children out of the ghetto.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irena_Sendler

We must never forget that vast numbers of Poles risked their lives, and many were tortured and murdered, saving the lives of other Poles - Polish Jews in WW2.

We have no comprehension today of what Poland went through. It became a death factory. An experiment for the Nazis where some of the Poles were to be Germanised, some turned into slaves and some murdered. The Germans basically decided to kill off the people of Poland either through slavery or simply by killing them.

 

Yet strangely enough today the Polish generally quite like the Germans.

But absolutely despise the Russians. 

From my experience anyway. 

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21 minutes ago, ccc said:

Yet strangely enough today the Polish generally quite like the Germans.

But absolutely despise the Russians. 

From my experience anyway. 

 

That is because for many Poles alive today they can still remember living under Communist rule where they could not talk openly, where Polish history was basically outlawed and where virtually all of Poland's farmings goods got sent East to Russia.

WW2 is already History for most Poles as it is for us. However, unlike the Brits, the Poles are educated on their history during WW2.

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4 hours ago, M S E Refugee said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42959076?intlink_from_url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cywd23g0q1mt/poland&link_location=live-reporting-story

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43108116?intlink_from_url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cywd23g0q1mt/poland&link_location=live-reporting-story

The Polish Government was heavily promoting this law when I was in Poland the other week whereby you can go to jail by referring to Polish Death camps rather than German Death camps.

I think it is just posturing by the Polish Government so they can't be blackmailed by Germany to take in Merkel's migrants.

This is top trolling by President Andrzej Duda.

 

When part of the justification for inflicting some rather unpleasant stuff on people is that you can't criticise it because your country's people (usually men of course) do the same then it pays to be precise in your language.

Therefore I expect they're just making it absolutely clear that death camps were there in Poland due to the German ocupation rather than initiated by Polish people.

Edited by twocents

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34 minutes ago, The Masked Tulip said:

 

That is because for many Poles alive today they can still remember living under Communist rule where they could not talk openly, where Polish history was basically outlawed and where virtually all of Poland's farmings goods got sent East to Russia.

WW2 is already History for most Poles as it is for us. However, unlike the Brits, the Poles are educated on their history during WW2.

I still don't understand how German invasion led to Britain and France declaring war on Germany (due to Alliance) and yet Soviet invasion two weeks later didn't result in a similar declaration. 

Edit: having looked it up, the pact seems to have only specified German invasion. So, like the Munich agreement, not in Britain's interests to get involved. 

Edited by The Generation Game

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3 hours ago, M S E Refugee said:

I am not really in favour of these types of laws,but I just think it is there to keep Germany at arms length.

Indeed - and to keep at arms length policies introduced on the dishonest basis of you can't object because we say you're no better.

Edited by twocents

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10 minutes ago, The Generation Game said:

I still don't understand how German invasion led to Britain and France declaring war on Germany (due to Alliance) and yet Soviet invasion two weeks later didn't result in a similar declaration. 

I used to have people at school telling me how Britain saved Poland during the War and Polish people should be grateful to Britain, when in fact Britain was powerless to help.

It has always been downplayed the roles that the Soviets and the Slovaks played in The Polish Defensive War.

Poland was surrounded.

Edited by M S E Refugee

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3 minutes ago, M S E Refugee said:

I used to have people at school telling me how Britain saved Poland during the War and Polish people should be grateful to Britain, when in fact Britain were powerless to help.

It has always been downplayed the roles that the Soviets and the Slovaks played in The Polish Defensive War.

Poland was surrounded.

I think the soviets would rather Poland didn't exist

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

https://sputniknews.com/politics/201705281054072276-polish-kingdom-history/

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In the 1945 Victory parade in London all nations that had taken part on the side of the Allies marched troops through London. Even countries, such as South American ones, which only declared war on Germany in the days and weeks before Germany surrended marched their troops.

One country was missing - the Free Poles.

The British did not wish to offend the Soviets.

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7 hours ago, JackieO said:

It's a crime in Germany to even question some of the history of WW2 and that's ok but when the poles do it its not?

 

Holocaust denial will get you jail time in quite a few european countries... as will strutting around in Nazi uniform.

Harry-Nazi.jpg

 

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