• Welcome to DOSBODS

     

    DOSBODS is free of any advertising.

    Ads are annoying, and - increasingly - advertising companies limit free speech online. DOSBODS Forums are completely free to use. Please create a free account to be able to access all the features of the DOSBODS community. It only takes 20 seconds!

     

Sign in to follow this  
Wight Flight

Driving

Recommended Posts

Was watching room 101 on catchup last night.

2 out of 3 guests seemed almost proud that they couldn't drive.

This pisses me off. These are the sort of Londoncentrics that think driving is just one of those optional things that you do if you want to.

They don't have a clue that for those of us in the suburbs, let alone the country, driving is almost essential. Hence the kind of argument that the driving age should be raised to 21, thus rendering many younger unemployable, is just ridiculous.

We really need to change from this 'city rules' democracy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not something to be proud of exactly, but I do think some people simply don't have the temperament to be a good driver, and if the reason they haven't learned to drive is that they recognize that, then fair play to them.

In London it really is fantastically expensive to learn to drive and get through your first couple of years- a friend of ours passed her test last year at the age of 30, and to insure an old 1.6 hatchback cost her a grand I think (car is worth £300 and excess is £250, so it's all down to the risk she apparently presents to third parties).

Edited by Rave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Rave said:

It's not something to be proud of exactly, but I do think some people simply don't have the temperament to be a good driver, and if the reason they haven't learned to drive is that they recognize that, then fair play to them.

In London it really is fantastically expensive to learn to drive and get through your first couple of years- a friend of ours passed her test last year at the age of 30, and to insure an old 1.6 hatchback cost her a grand I think (car is worth £300 and excess is £250, so it's all down to the risk she apparently presents to third parties).

That is a good point for parents. It is not how many years you have driven for, it is how many years since you passed your test that matters for insurance premiums.

Surely it is one of the last tasks of parenthood to get the bastards through their driving test?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Cunning Plan said:

That is a good point for parents. It is not how many years you have driven for, it is how many years since you passed your test that matters for insurance premiums.

Surely it is one of the last tasks of parenthood to get the bastards through their driving test?

I think the first year is more like £2k (or even more) for a 17 year old, so I reckon age does come into it. I passed my test aged 17 but didn't insure a car in my own name until I was 19, that was £700 in 1998, so I daresay the equivalent of £1350 or so nowadays. My parents were kind enough to pay it, I couldn't have afforded it.

I love cars and have several, but the cost of running them really does add up, tax and insurance on my larger one is about £2 a day, and that's with my 13 years no claims or whatever it is now. I could probably get an uber 2-3 times a week for the same annual outlay if I needed to, and not have the aggravation of MOT-ing it every year, servicing it, and fixing it when it goes wrong etc.

For all that I dislike the anti-car brigade, I do think we have developed a slightly dysfunctional relationship with cars as a society. If a car really is a necessity for living in suburbia, then I can't help thinking we've gone a bit wrong somewhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Rave said:

I think the first year is more like £2k (or even more) for a 17 year old, so I reckon age does come into it. I passed my test aged 17 but didn't insure a car in my own name until I was 19, that was £700 in 1998, so I daresay the equivalent of £1350 or so nowadays. My parents were kind enough to pay it, I couldn't have afforded it.

I love cars and have several, but the cost of running them really does add up, tax and insurance on my larger one is about £2 a day, and that's with my 13 years no claims or whatever it is now. I could probably get an uber 2-3 times a week for the same annual outlay if I needed to, and not have the aggravation of MOT-ing it every year, servicing it, and fixing it when it goes wrong etc.

For all that I dislike the anti-car brigade, I do think we have developed a slightly dysfunctional relationship with cars as a society. If a car really is a necessity for living in suburbia, then I can't help thinking we've gone a bit wrong somewhere.

It may have gone wrong but I don't see a fix.

For example, my lad goes to the gym and his sports club every day. The gym is a 30 minute cycle away, the sports club about 45 minutes. But he has kit so can't cycle to the sports club. By public transport it is 2+ hours away.

By car, they are 5 and 10 minutes away respectively. 

It is the city centric view that bugs me. They don't understand that any other kind of life could exist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

It may have gone wrong but I don't see a fix.

For example, my lad goes to the gym and his sports club every day. The gym is a 30 minute cycle away, the sports club about 45 minutes. But he has kit so can't cycle to the sports club. By public transport it is 2+ hours away.

By car, they are 5 and 10 minutes away respectively. 

It is the city centric view that bugs me. They don't understand that any other kind of life could exist.

Sorry, but I really don't understand the preference people have for driving to the gym, when they could just ride the 30 mins there, turn straight around and cycle home, and save all that cash.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

It may have gone wrong but I don't see a fix.

For example, my lad goes to the gym and his sports club every day. The gym is a 30 minute cycle away, the sports club about 45 minutes. But he has kit so can't cycle to the sports club. By public transport it is 2+ hours away.

By car, they are 5 and 10 minutes away respectively. 

It is the city centric view that bugs me. They don't understand that any other kind of life could exist.

You could say same about the car centric view. xD

I don't drive. I'm not allowed due to my eyesight. To be frank It's a right pain in the arse, and I live in a city, but when it's not an option you've got to try harder to find other ways.

To be fair if I lived in the countryside I think my options would be to move to city, or drive illegally.

xD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It might be ignorance, or it might just be that they regard a lifestyle that requires the burning of several litres of fossil fuel most days to drag a 1+ ton metal box around to be environmentally unsustainable. I tend to disagree, but it's not necessarily an ignorant or morally inconsistent viewpoint.

A scooter or small motorbike would be a very sensible method of transport for lots of people (though maybe not for someone with golf clubs to transport, if that's what your lad is up to). But not many people fancy it, because of all the other bastards tooling about in big metal boxes making it a far riskier method of transport than it really should be!

I have high hopes for the future of electrically assisted bicycles.

3 minutes ago, dgul said:

Sorry, but I really don't understand the preference people have for driving to the gym, when they could just ride the 30 mins there, turn straight around and cycle home, and save all that cash.

Cycling doesn't build beach-ready biceps, to be fair.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But the OP point is right -- it is difficult to live in the country without driving everywhere, and the pressures in the city are completely different.

I'm not sure it can ever be completely resolved.  I can only think that they'll make driving more expensive, which will encourage more distribution of services/retail/etc.

But the other point is expectation.  I lived for years in the middle of nowhere.  There was nothing locally other than a village with a few pubs and a co-op 15 mins away; the town was 40 mins away but that didn't have anything much (would have had a gym).  Cinema, restaurants, etc were well over an hour away.  But everyone just carried on and ignored the big world -- we didn't even 'put up with it', as we'd never actually been to the cinema much to miss it, say.  

Then roads got faster, cars cheaper, travel easier.  People started to come to the rural area as a commuting zone.  Then they started wanting restaurants, a cinema, more supermarkets.  Then they put in more houses, because people liked living there.  But there wasn't much more work (on the new supermarket and cinema tills, say), so all the people who moved in were commuting to the town 40 mins away.  Then they wanted the road upgraded, and people started moving in who were commuting to the city which was now just under an hour away.

So, everyone lives there, everyone needs a car, everyone expects everything to be handily available.  It will be very difficult to go back to the 'be happy with what is available' mindset.

Me.  Couldn't stand it.  Too isolated for me.  I live in a nice rural place but I work from home and I'm content to drive a few minutes to get to the shops when I need to, but cycle* if the weather's good.

[* electric bike.  They're fantastic.  Everyone calls it 'cheating', but it isn't cheating if you're actually cycling instead of using the car (which is what happens now).  CP's son would be better off with an electric bike -- it would cut travel times enough to make it an acceptable alternative to driving.]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some fair points raised. Yes, even I think it is mad driving to the gym, but it does depend what you are trying to achieve.

Re Cycling. We have a family push bike. It will get used to nip to the local shop. Never any further. It is just too bloody dangerous. I went further once and it scared the living daylights out of me (and when younger I thought nothing of cycling 15-20 miles to get somewhere I needed to be)

That said, an electric bike will be my first purchase when I move away.

As to mopeds - Like many I got one as soon as I was sixteen as it was essential to get to work. It was the most miserable and dangerous year of my life. My youngest will do his full bike license course as soon as he turns sixteen but won't be getting a bike until he is allowed something with a bit more grip and power than the asthmatic death traps a 16 year old is currently restricted to.

And to cross over from the 'got a job' thread. Another town centric view is you don't need to own a car, just rent one when you need it.

Brilliant. So you spend an hour on the bus to get to somewhere that hires a car, then spend half an hour waiting whilst some muppet types war and peace into a 1970's pc. And given that they don't even open until 8.30am and close at 5.30 pm you either have to take time off work, get somewhere late or just don't bother.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Cunning Plan said:

Was watching room 101 on catchup last night.

2 out of 3 guests seemed almost proud that they couldn't drive.

This pisses me off. These are the sort of Londoncentrics that think driving is just one of those optional things that you do if you want to.

They don't have a clue that for those of us in the suburbs, let alone the country, driving is almost essential. Hence the kind of argument that the driving age should be raised to 21, thus rendering many younger unemployable, is just ridiculous.

We really need to change from this 'city rules' democracy.

Good. It keeps them out of the countryside.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, InLikeFlynn said:

Good. It keeps them out of the countryside.

That's a very good point.

On LBC just now was some young twat from some safety group wanting to ban vaping in cars. 

Kept going on about motoring deaths. Nothing about vaping.

And he doesn't drive, smoke or vape so he can just shut the fuck up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

Some fair points raised. Yes, even I think it is mad driving to the gym, but it does depend what you are trying to achieve.

Re Cycling. We have a family push bike. It will get used to nip to the local shop. Never any further. It is just too bloody dangerous. I went further once and it scared the living daylights out of me (and when younger I thought nothing of cycling 15-20 miles to get somewhere I needed to be)

That said, an electric bike will be my first purchase when I move away.

As to mopeds - Like many I got one as soon as I was sixteen as it was essential to get to work. It was the most miserable and dangerous year of my life. My youngest will do his full bike license course as soon as he turns sixteen but won't be getting a bike until he is allowed something with a bit more grip and power than the asthmatic death traps a 16 year old is currently restricted to.

And to cross over from the 'got a job' thread. Another town centric view is you don't need to own a car, just rent one when you need it.

Brilliant. So you spend an hour on the bus to get to somewhere that hires a car, then spend half an hour waiting whilst some muppet types war and peace into a 1970's pc. And given that they don't even open until 8.30am and close at 5.30 pm you either have to take time off work, get somewhere late or just don't bother.

 

I have fond memories of my sixth form and undergraduate days, when I used to cycle about 8 miles along an A road to a small county town on the edge of London to meet friends, drink 4-5 pints of strong ale and then cycle back. I did this most weekends, and only crashed once. 

I can understand the London carless view though. Having a car is total unnecessary pain in London, and being made even more difficult by the Bus Driver's Son. It's not that you don't need a car to get around in London, you don't need it to get anywhere, because it is a global transport hub and with a combination of train and taxi you can get to anywhere in the country pretty easily. 

Edited by Austin Allegro

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On a side note, tried an electric bike for the first time last summer and was completely won over by it.  They are very expensive at the moment but that will change. I live in a hilly part of the world and the assistance climbing hills makes the whole experience much more pleasant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, InLikeFlynn said:

On a side note, tried an electric bike for the first time last summer and was completely won over by it.  They are very expensive at the moment but that will change. I live in a hilly part of the world and the assistance climbing hills makes the whole experience much more pleasant.

I am going to give it a crack soon - you can pick one up at Ryde Pierhead (just off the hovercraft) for about £40 for the day so off exploring I will go.

I don't think there is any way my 50 year old legs will cope with the Isle of Wight hills otherwise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Cunning Plan said:

I am going to give it a crack soon - you can pick one up at Ryde Pierhead (just off the hovercraft) for about £40 for the day so off exploring I will go.

I don't think there is any way my 50 year old legs will cope with the Isle of Wight hills otherwise.

I like the idea but recall that in the 60s, you had bikes called, I think, autocycles, which were basically a gent's three speed bike with a small petrol lawnmower motor mounted on the handlebars. In the early 70s HMG in its wisdom decided that all motor cycles had to be taxed, licence plated, insured etc and the rider had to wear a helmet, which made the whole idea pointless as if you had to do all that you might as well buy a Honda C90 or something. I wonder if something similar will happen with electric bicycles. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Austin Allegro said:

I like the idea but recall that in the 60s, you had bikes called, I think, autocycles, which were basically a gent's three speed bike with a small petrol lawnmower motor mounted on the handlebars. In the early 70s HMG in its wisdom decided that all motor cycles had to be taxed, licence plated, insured etc and the rider had to wear a helmet, which made the whole idea pointless as if you had to do all that you might as well buy a Honda C90 or something. I wonder if something similar will happen with electric bicycles. 

There are two classes of electric bikes:

Electric power restricted to 25km/h - no restrictions on use

Electric power restricted to 45km/h - needs helmet, registration etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Electric bikes are very popular in Swansea thesedays with younger and younger lazy buggers riding them. They go way too fast on them. But I certainly have considered one for my shopping trips. People are paying 3 to 5 K for them though.

I was talking to 2 40-something cyclists about electric bikes back in the summer as a 70 something bloke locked up hispedal bike next to us. He had cycled down from one of the local mountain tops to get his shopping and decided to rubbish electric bikes for 10 minutes before getting his shopping. xD Then back up the mountain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Byron said:

Most of my friends were riding motorcycles at 16 and driving cars at 17. Even in the early 1960's 6th formers drove to my school.

Same here for my time, and I was one of them, but a significant minority were dead before they were 20. Young people dying, even through their own stupidity, is unacceptable in the modern world. I survived but more by luck than judgement!

24 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

I am going to give it a crack soon - you can pick one up at Ryde Pierhead (just off the hovercraft) for about £40 for the day so off exploring I will go.

I don't think there is any way my 50 year old legs will cope with the Isle of Wight hills otherwise.

This looks like the coolest and cheapest thing I've seen (if you believe they won't just run off with your cash)

https://newatlas.com/nireeka-affordable-carbon-ebike/53497/

 

7 minutes ago, sukuinage said:

There are two classes of electric bikes:

Electric power restricted to 25km/h - no restrictions on use

Electric power restricted to 45km/h - needs helmet, registration etc.

3 classes actually - bikes that are supposedly in class 1 ie no restrictions, but can join class 2 at the flick of a (preferably hidden) switch. It's a bit of an issue in Geneva because in France they allow 25km/h without restriction (as in the UK) and in CH it's 45km/h.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, The Masked Tulip said:

Electric bikes are very popular in Swansea thesedays with younger and younger lazy buggers riding them. They go way too fast on them. But I certainly have considered one for my shopping trips. People are paying 3 to 5 K for them though.

I was talking to 2 40-something cyclists about electric bikes back in the summer as a 70 something bloke locked up hispedal bike next to us. He had cycled down from one of the local mountain tops to get his shopping and decided to rubbish electric bikes for 10 minutes before getting his shopping. xD Then back up the mountain.

To be honest a fit and healthy person of any age does not need an electric bicycle. There are members of the Cycle Touring Club going out on rides in their eighties, some even in their nineties. The problem is that most cheapo bikes of the type people buy nowadays in Halfords weigh a ton, and have knobbly tyres which are useless for road riding. So they think 'phew this is hard work, better go electric', especially if they are not used to physical activity. A good well made lightweight touring bike with road tyres and properly calibrated hill climbing gears, however, is much easier to ride. Even an old 1970s 3 speed will be lighter and faster than a modern Halfords type bike. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Austin Allegro said:

To be honest a fit and healthy person of any age does not need an electric bicycle. There are members of the Cycle Touring Club going out on rides in their eighties, some even in their nineties. The problem is that most cheapo bikes of the type people buy nowadays in Halfords weigh a ton, and have knobbly tyres which are useless for road riding. So they think 'phew this is hard work, better go electric', especially if they are not used to physical activity. A good well made lightweight touring bike with road tyres and properly calibrated hill climbing gears, however, is much easier to ride. Even an old 1970s 3 speed will be lighter and faster than a modern Halfords type bike. 

 

Fully agree. See it all the time here in Swansea - people who have bought, usually from Halfords, some big knobbly thing trying to push it along the sea-front. I feel knackered looking at them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.