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Crusader

What if I don't Want Halal?

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What do you do if companies, butchers, supermarkets etc won't tell you what is slaughtered to Halal/Kosher methods?  How can you as a non-Jew/Muslim make an informed choice?
I find it ironic that the most common excuse for selling unlabelled/unidentified Halal/Kosher meat/poultry is that just because they didn't ask for it to be Halal they don't feel they have any obligation to label it as such!  Why don't they just ask for it not to be Halal/Kosher?
If you look at these replys and comments you will understand the problem is bigger than you think and many don't mind hiding the truth from their customers or plainly lie:

Tesco

https://www.tescoplc.com/little-helps-plan/reports-policies-and-disclosure/religious-slaughter-policy/

All our Tesco branded meat suppliers to the UK market stun the animal before slaughter, even though some of this is also processed to halal standards, the point of difference from conventionally-slaughtered animals is that the animal receives a blessing before slaughter. This allows the processors to export parts of the carcass not used by European customers to other countries, such as those in the Middle East, where demand for halal meat is higher, a practice which helps to minimise waste. As we do not specify to these suppliers that halal practices should be followed, such as a blessing, we choose not to market the meat as halal.

Sainsbury’s

https://help.sainsburys.co.uk/help/products/1926-halal-meat

What is your position on halal meat?

In line with our high welfare standards, all the animals used for our own brand meat are stunned prior to slaughter.

Under no circumstances would any of our own brand meat be from an animal that has not been stunned prior to slaughter.  The animal will always be treated humanely with the utmost respect.  In New Zealand it is common for lamb to be blessed however we have never requested this and all of our own brand meat is from animals stunned prior to slaughter so it would be wrong to label our own brand meat as Halal.

Morrison’s

https://www.morrisons-corporate.com/cr/policy/religious-slaughter/

We respect the fact that some religious communities want to eat food produced in accordance with their beliefs and sell branded halal and kosher products where there is strong customer demand. It's clear from the labelling that these products are halal or kosher.

Customers who do not wish to purchase halal or kosher products can choose Morrison’s branded fresh meat in full confidence that all animals are stunned and no prayer is read at slaughter. The same applies to all of the meat sold from our in-store butchers counters.

All Morrisons-branded fresh meat is British, along with all of the meat sold from our in-store butchers counters. Uniquely, the majority is processed at our own abattoirs, giving us unrivalled control over provenance and quality.

Asda
Animal welfare is a critical focus for all our suppliers.

All animals used for Asda brand products are stunned prior to being slaughtered. This stun renders them unconscious and insensitive to pain, but more importantly to Muslims, still alive.

All our Asda brand suppliers have been approved by the Halal Food Authority (HFA).  The concessions Asda have in their stored, run by National Halal, Haja Babab and Halal world do sell meat which has been provided from animals which do not receive a stun.

Costco - I identified a few products that were produced by Halal Certified Abattoirs (in particular product labelled UK 5007 EC - Crown Chickens Ltd (Whole Chickens) - See attached Certificate) so I asked the Question:

Q:  Hi I was wondering if you could provide the following information. Are your meat products HALAL? If you sell HALAL meat is this clearly labelled? Are your cooked Chickens (rotisserie) HALAL?
Costco Reply:
Hi, our meat (including our Rotisserie Chicken) is not Halal certified. - Chloe
Q: 
Thankyou but can you clarify whether or not it is HALAL even without certification? Thanks
Costco Reply: Hi, it is a legal requirement to label meat as Halal if it has been butchered in this way. Our meat is not Halal. - Chloe

No matter how many times you ask the answer was the same even when faced with the evidence of that Halal Certiificate..


Now these are just some of the big companies what about the Meat Supply Traders?

Russell Hume was found out by the FSA messing with Food Dates - Halal Meat provider - Affected Weatherspoons, Marstons, Jamies Oliver plus others. Now Bankrupt!!!!
Fairfax Meadows - Recently found out messing with food Dates (FSA Agency Alert) - Halal Meat Provider - Miller & Carter Steak Houses provider, Playboy Club, Intercontinental Hotel Chain - Who knew?
KFC - Recently in the news - Are supplied by 2 Sisters Food Group (Halal Food Authority Accredited) but recently there was a story in the news about dumped chicken bound for KFC and this was identified as Moy Park Chicken also Halal (Halal Food Authority Accredited - see the logo on Moy Park Site).
MuscleFood - According to News reports are the sister company of DB Foods-See attachment (you may have seen them on FB) - Halal Meat provider

Yet contact with these companies revealed they all denied using Halal/Kosher products.  You will find that most restaurants deny it nor will identify what is Halal/Kosher.  And example is Whitbread Group (Costa Coffee, Beefeater, Brewers Fayre, Table Table, Premier Inn etc) sell Halal food but will not tell customers what it is despite them admitting they sell it!

Many schools in the UK are using Halal Food because it is easier to manage because they don't want to have to provide separate facilities in school kitchens as it will cost more.  They use catering contractors who purchase food from Halal Meat/Poultry providers fom both here in the UK and Overseas (some schools have their Halal Certificates for review to ensure Muslims can be happy with Halal Certified Foods).

In fact Lancashire Schools recognised this problem and banned Halal in schools and as a result they were challenged with the Race, Islamphopbic, Xenophobic card and had to suspend the ban pending consultation.  This includes people completing this Survey (I recommend you all do as this will not just affect Lancashire but all schools who have been lying to parents about Halal food being passed off to non-Islamic pupils for convenience - Click here to complete the survey if you have concerns about Halal in schools.  When challenged many state that it is the responsibility of the catering Contractors yet when asked did the School authority actually request non-Halal Meat/Poultry when issuing contracts they state NO!

Hospitals, Prisons and the MoD are exactly the same.  They have been hiding this fact for years!

The time when all Meat/Poultry will be slaughtered to meet the needs of 5% of the UK polulation will all be Halal/Kosher Slaughtered or compliant.

DB Foods-MuscleFood HCL Halal Cert.pdf

5007-Crown Chicken Halal Cert.pdf

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Thanks for that. Have Morrison's changed their tune recently? I was sure that a lot of their meat was halal and that all of their fish was halal certified. If they really do only sell halal meat in culturally enriched areas then I'll go out of my way to buy my meat there.

1 minute ago, wherebee said:

So - Sainburys and Morrisons own brand are non-Halal?  Or did I read that wrong?

Sainsbury's is mostly two sisters which is mostly halal.

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18 minutes ago, wherebee said:

So - Sainburys and Morrisons own brand are non-Halal?  Or did I read that wrong?

This is the problem..  When supermarkets throw the "All our animals are humanely stunned" they are very likely referring to Reversible Stun methods (especially Poultry as these come from major Halal Accredited companies).  If you look at this video it shows they are alive and can and do recover (Halal Food Authority Promotion Video). 
This video show them conscious while on conveyor lines after being stunned.  You can see them breathing/blinking and moving (Video - It shows slaughter process be warned).
But if supermarkets are stating they don't supply Halal Poultry why don't they insist their poultry is stunned to Kill (Irreversible Stun)?  The reason why they don't is to keep the costs down when in reality all they need is a higher voltage when stunned to make it Irreversible or use the Gassing Method (aka Controlled Air Environment).  Ths is so these poultry plants can sell their products outside the UK (inc off cuts not used in UK) and provide a Halal Certificate for export as required.

Lamb is of a major concern as these are stunned to ensure they are alive when slaughtered in other words they are not killed before their neck is cut.  This allows the meat to be sold off as Halal as being alive at the time of slaughter is a mandated requirement hence many abattoirs have adopted this method of stun (depending on which Halal Certifier is used i.e. HFA, HMC, HCL etc).  Most UK Lamb slaughter is Halal compliant (although not all).

Maybe this is why - Farming UK - Saudi Halal Market deal for Halal from UK

At the moment Cattle are either Halal/Kosher Slaughtered while full alive and conscious or Stunned using Captive Bolt (penetrating or non-penetrating aka percussion stunning).  Even though this is classed as a Stun it is Irreversible stunning and the animal will die and cannot recover.
So if the meat is Halal/Kosher then they are as yet almost certainily killed while alive and conscious but this is set to change as I have already discussed (Reversible Cattle stunning is being researched).  
Pigs cannot be Halal but are stunned with Irreversible electrical Stun methods.
 

Just now, gilf said:

Bit of a cop out from Sainsbury's that. 

 

It is the same with their BRITISH Lamb.  Just because they didn';t ask for they feel they don't need to label it as Halal even though they know it is.

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51 minutes ago, wherebee said:

So - Sainburys and Morrisons own brand are non-Halal?  Or did I read that wrong?

Morrisons use their own Abattoirs Woodhead Brothers for their Red Meat.

 

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This is a list of products supplied at most major supermarkets:
ASDA

4633 - Poultry - Faccenda Foods Ltd, Brieley Hill - Linked with Cargills
7013 - Poultry - Faccenda Foods Ltd, Abergevenny - Linked with Cargills
3003 - Duck - Faccenda Foods ltd, Lincs, Market Rasen - Linked with Cargills
3007 - Poultry - Faccenda Foods Ltd, Brackley (confirmed HFA List 2013) - Linked with Cargills
4667 - Poultry - Faccenda Foods Ltd, Telford - Linked with Cargills
4026 - Poutry - Faccenda Foods Ltd, Scropton - Linked with Cargills
1100 - Poultry - 2 Sisters Poultry Ltd (TA 2 Sisters Coupar Angus) - In news for Food handling issues (they lost track of 250 crates of chicken that had been returned).
2037 - Poultry - 2 Sisters Food Group Ltd, Scunthorpe (confirmed HFA List 2015)
7009 - Poultry - 2 Sisters Poultry Limited T/A 2 Sisters Sandycroft
5037 - Poultry - 2 Sisters Food Group, Witham
4732 - Poultry - 2 Sisters Food Group Ltd, Warley (confirmed HFA List 2013)
8005 - Poultry - 2 Sisters Food Group Ltd, Cullompton (TA Bernard Mattews)
5450 - Poultry - Traditional Norfolk Poultry, Attleborough

2458 - Beef - ABP Doncaster
4071 - Beef - Dunbia, Preston (confirmed HFA) - Now part of Dawn Meats
9033 - Beef - ABP(Lurgan) Ltd (confirmed HFA List 2015)
9001 - Beef - ABP Holdings Ltd (Trading as ABP (Newry)
IE290 - Beef - ABP Ireland (Nenagh), Tipperary
IE300 - Beef - ABP Ireland (Cahir), Tipperary
IE329 - Lamb - Kepak (Cork), Watergrasshill, Cork

Tesco Wigan

9502 – Whole Chicken - Moy Park Ltd, Dungannon (Moy Park HFA Listed)
2037 – Chicken Pieces - 2 Sisters Food Group Ltd, Scunthorpe (HFA Listed 2013)
3011 – Chicken - Moy Park Ltd, Sleaford (Moy Park HFA listed)
4014 – Chicken – Cargill Meats Europe, Hereford (HFA Listed 2013)
7009 – Chicken - 2 Sisters Poultry Limited T/A 2 Sisters Sandycroft, Deeside
9509 – Moy Park Ltd, Ballymena (Moy Park HFA Listed)
5011 – 2 Sisters Food Group Ltd, Bungay (HFA)
BL015 – Turkey – 2 Sisters Food Group  - TA Bernard Matthews Foods Ltd, Great Witchingham
5001 – Frozen Turkey - 2 Sisters Food Group - TA Bernard Matthews Foods Ltd, Great Witchingham
5416 – Lamb (UK/NZ) – Hilton Foods UK Limited - MP
8299 – British Lamb – St Merryn Foods, Victoria – Roche (St. Merryn Meat Ltd PL26 8LX)
7176 – Lamb – 2 Sisters Red Meat Ltd T/A St Merryn Foods - Merthyr Tydfil

Morrison's

5001 - Turkey - 2 Sisters Food Group - TA Bernard Matthews - Norwich (HFA)
5004 - Turkey - Gressingham Foods, Diss
4633 - Turkey - Faccenda, Brierly Hill - linked with Cargills
5069 - Turkey - Gressingham Foods, Woodbridge
4026 - Turkey - Faccenda Foods, Scropton - Linked with Cargills
4014 - Poultry - Cargills Hereford (Gassed? TBC)
5464 - Poultry - Banham Poultry Ltd, Attleborough - claim non-Halal but use reversible stun
4667 - Poultry - Faccenda Foods, Telford - Linked with Cargills
3007 - Poultry - Faccenda Foods, Brackley - Linked with Cargills

4471 - Beef - Woodhead bros, Whitewalls Industrial Est, Colne
5513 - Beef - Woodhead Bros, Pinchbeck, Spalding
9056 - Beef - W D Meats Ltd, Coleraine
4071 - Beef - Dunbia, Bamberbridge, Preston (HFA) - Now part of Dawn Meats
1103 - Beef - Neerock Limited (T/A Woodhead Brothers)

4787 - Veal - Farmers Boy Ltd, Winsford
PL 1041101 WE - Poultry - ?

Sainsbury's

8005 – Grange Chicken - 2 Sisters Food Group Ltd, Willand, Devon - Bernard Mathews
3011 – Chicken – Moy Park, Sleaford (Halal - HFA Accredited)
5450 – Chicken – Traditional Norfolk Poultry Ltd, Attleborough (suspected Halal)
9502 – Chicken – Moy Park Ltd, Dungannon (Halal - HFA Accredited)
5004 – Turkey – Gressingham Foods,
7009 – Chicken – 2 Sisters Poultry Limited T/A 2 Sisters Sandycroft, Deeside
4732 – Chicken – 2 Sisters Food Group Ltd, Warley
BL015 – Turkey – 2 SistersFood Group, Bernard Matthews, Great Witchingham
5049 – Turkey – 2 Sisters Food Group, Bernard Matthews Foods Ltd, Halesworth
7015 – Lamb – Dunbia (Wales) (T/A Dunbia Llanybydder) - (Halal Food Authority Accredited (HFA)) - Now part of Dawn Meats
6057 – Lamb – Randall Parker Foods Ltd, Applshaw, Andover (Halal Food Authority Accredited (HFA)
7015 – British Lamb –Dunbia (Wales) (T/A Dunbia Llanybydder) - (Halal Food Authority Accredited (HFA) - Now part of Dawn Meats

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Trust me, its bollocks, they don't go up in a puff of smoke if you 'inadvertently' give them non-religio-compliant products.

p.s. Halal does make sense if you live in a sweltering, disease infested, shit-hole with no sanitation or refrigeration as then it is very basic public health.

It is purely based on the 8th century standards of the middle-east.

Edited by Chewing Grass
freddy fat fingers

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6 minutes ago, Chewing Grass said:

Trust me, its bollocks, they don't go up in a puff of smoke if you 'inadvertently' give them non-religio-compliant products.

You are right...Muslims don't need to have their meat alive while slaughtering.  It isn't in the quoran; all this was a recent mis-interpretation made by so called scolars of Islam.  Indeed all they need do is say a prayer over the food as they eat it just as Christians do.  The Ulema have stated this time and time again and they are Islamic Law Specialists!

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I've not seen non-halal slaughter in the UK.  After slaughter the meat goes into several packaging routes, some of which will be halal certified.

It is a fundamental problem.  I want all halal-slaughtered meat (not only halal certified) to be labelled with something along the lines of 'meat from animals slaughtered with a religious exemption to the Welfare of Animals at the Time of Killing regulations EU1099/2009'.  That way consumers could make an informed decision, rather than the mess we've got at the moment.

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Again this is a real problem.  Even the meat packaging plants (not abattoirs, who are registered Halal Compliant and hold Halal certification must handle Halal Slaughtered meat and this has to be verified.  If not they lose that certification but importantly the Halal Acreditation provider loses money to depending on their contract;  this could be either a one-time annual payment was made or a payment by weight was accepted.  This means the more Chicken / Meat they produce the more the charge is and the more money goes to Islamic Charities as these Halal accreditors are registered UK Islamic Charities who receive tax exemptions aswell.  This charity money (often submitted through Zakat contributions) can only go to Islamic causes.  This includes support Jihadists, pay for their weapons and to pay for non-Muslims to covert to Islam:

Source (see 7th reason) : https://islamqa.info/en/46209
To persuade those sympathetic to or expected to convert to Islam (Al-Mu'allafatu Qulūbuhum),[19] recent converts to Islam,[18][53][54] and potential allies in the cause of Islam[53][55]

Those fighting for a religious cause or a cause of God (Fī Sabīlillāh),[19] or for Jihad in the way of Allah by means of pen, word, or sword,[56] or for Islamic warriors who fight against the unbelievers but are not salaried soldiers.[53][55][57]:h8.17


This is another reason I will not buy Halal Certified products from shops these days (inc Warburtons Bread, Kingsmill, Cadbury's etc) because the contributions fmade paying for that certification goes towards Islamic only Charities.

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2 minutes ago, Crusader said:

This is another reason I will not buy Halal Certified products from shops these days (inc Warburtons Bread, Kingsmill, Cadbury's etc) because the contributions fmade paying for that certification goes towards Islamic only Charities.

Therefore a state within a state is effectively operating a taxation system via a discriminatory and possibly therefore illegal charity.

How does that stack-up with EU charters.

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14 minutes ago, dgul said:

I've not seen non-halal slaughter in the UK.  After slaughter the meat goes into several packaging routes, some of which will be halal certified.

It is a fundamental problem.  I want all halal-slaughtered meat (not only halal certified) to be labelled with something along the lines of 'meat from animals slaughtered with a religious exemption to the Welfare of Animals at the Time of Killing regulations EU1099/2009'.  That way consumers could make an informed decision, rather than the mess we've got at the moment.

But this does not explain religious slaughter that is dependant on which Halal Certification provider is used.  Halal Food Authority allow reversible Stunning, the HMC do not .  So in fact religious slaughter can be animals that have been stunned aswell.  The above legislation is being quoted by Government officials.  They claim they intend to look at labelling to reflect Religious Slaughter but they also state it will be about Un-Stunned animals when in fact Reversibly stunned animals are also considered Religiously Slaughtered.  This is the supermarkets escape clause too.

Just now, Chewing Grass said:

Therefore a state within a state is effectively operating a taxation system via a discriminatory and possibly therefore illegal charity.

How does that stack-up with EU charters.

It's all legal even though the system is being abused because DEFRA and FSA have no monitoring legislation to ensure that this market only feeds the Muslims and Jews as per current legislation and they don't really care.

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4 hours ago, VladTheImp said:

Best way to avoid halal is stick to pork, gammon, ham and bacon. Lots of bacon. 

But why should we be forced to do because of 5% of the UK population?

 

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1 hour ago, Crusader said:

But why should we be forced to do because of 5% of the UK population?

 

We shouldn’t. Maybe, if supermarkets notice sales of certain products go up, and others go down, they’ll act in their own financial best interest. 

Round my way most ROPers go to buy meat from businesses owned by fellow ROPers so can’t see why the big retailers pander to them. 

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30 minutes ago, VladTheImp said:

We shouldn’t. Maybe, if supermarkets notice sales of certain products go up, and others go down, they’ll act in their own financial best interest. 

Round my way most ROPers go to buy meat from businesses owned by fellow ROPers so can’t see why the big retailers pander to them. 

Supermarkets don't give a toss about excessive plastic packaging, they don't give a toss about throwing away tonnes of food every day, they don't give a toss about their suppliers and they certainly don't give a toss about halal. 

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Crusader, I am grateful to you for putting so much info about this up here. I’ve been toying with the idea of asking these sorts of questions to the supermarkets on social media platforms in the hope that it will start a debate and raise awareness. I recently posted here myself about the fact I’ve just started purchasing from a farm round the corner that rears and slaughters their organic meat. I’ve completely lost confidence in the supermarkets. 

I’ve also mentioned how at odds I find it that some animal rescues feel comfortable taking donations from these supermarkets that stock this kind of produce. 

I was talking to a close relative last week who works in a very desirable private school. He had asked another member of staff to establish how much of the meat, that was being supplied to them, was halal. The answer was 100%. He was absolutely furious and made it clear that there were very many of their well paying parents for which this would not be acceptable and something would need to be done. 

We need proper and clear labelling if this is to continue. It’s a bloody disgrace. 

 

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5 hours ago, Crusader said:

But why should we be forced to do because of 5% of the UK population?

 

Because it's cheaper and allows suppliers to cut corners on animal welfare?. If it cost say  an extra 10% to implement would they be so eager to foist it onto us?.

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This info is there and this is an ongoing public declaration that hopefully those who care will pay attention and those who don't get to understand just how much of a problem there is.
This doc gets updated regularly and explains what is going on and shows just how much companies are trying to hide the truth.  It also shows that the Churches of England don't care either and neither do the MPs as correspondence shows in the post - Religous Slaughter Why Should You Care?

There are many sites on FB that provides details of Abattoirs/shops/suppliers who do not sell or slaughter to Religious Standards and is growing through through a lot of peoples efforts.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/354606858218877/

There are lots of Freedom of Information (FOI) Requests going in to councils, Schools, MPs etc to get to the truth and identify the scale of the matter.  Schools are a major concern as some of these FOIs have shown.  Many schools are being provided Halal Food and they are not identifying this to pupils.  A common excuse is that the heads of schools believe they don't need to tell pupils because the only difference is an Islamic prayer!  Some blame caterers but yet they don't stipulate any requirement not to provide Halal/Kosher food to pupils who are non-Jewish/Islamic.  If you go to WhatdoTheyKnow and search for Halal you will see the problems out there.

For those who have children at schools there is a letter circulating that parents who have objections to Religiously Slaughtered Food being served to their children.  It requests that this is stopped immediately (see attached).

There are plenty of Boycott Halal sites out there too to look at and I am sure you will find something of interest.  And to back it up there are plenty of media out there that both explain and show what really happens such as this link but be warned the video section does not hold back.  The Halal Video Links Doc also contains links to media but it is not for the faint hearted but shows the extent of the practice of Religious Slaughter and Reversible Stunning.

School Letter-ver 1.doc

RS Video Links.docx

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11 hours ago, VladTheImp said:

Best way to avoid halal is stick to pork, gammon, ham and bacon. Lots of bacon. 

Or go vegan/vegetarian.

If Halal meat is such an issue then avoid it completely by not eating meat as eating any meat now seems like a lottery. 

Edited by Fossildog

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