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One percent

Trump: balls of steel

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10 minutes ago, Libspero said:

Specialty metals, perhaps..  I'm not sure that regular stainless steel production is especially difficult.  I'm pretty sure we could resurrect any mothballed heavy industry in the UK if we invested the money.   No one will invest the money though because we are not globally competitive when it comes to low skill manufacturing.

Most of the UK stainless infrastructure/plants went to Asia ten years ago ,it would be a case of build new ,steel making is not really low skilled but it`s energy intensive ..that`s more of the problem

A lot of the stuff coming out of China/India is shit even the bog standard sections..not so with Asian stainless though 

Edited by Long time lurking

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12 minutes ago, Libspero said:

Ok..  let me try from a different angle..     US aircraft,  developed using money from state funded defence research makes it very difficult for other nations to compete in civil aerospace manufacture.  Should we impose anti dumping tariffs on US civil aircraft exports?

Air cough bus.

Predated by Concorde.

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3 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Air cough bus.

Predated by Concorde.

Ok,  I was only going to use the one example but if you insist..  should the ROW impose anti dumping tariffs on US and European civil aircraft manufacturers?

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1 hour ago, Long time lurking said:

Genuine question how would that work ,as the Yuan is not a traded/floated currency  surely they would have to do that first 

 

1 hour ago, blobloblob said:

Is the Yuan in any fit state to be a reserve currency? I thought it was just about the most fecked currency on earth. 

That's the sort of thing that would make it a black swan.

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15 minutes ago, Libspero said:

Ok,  I was only going to use the one example but if you insist..  should the ROW impose anti dumping tariffs on US and European civil aircraft manufacturers?

It really would depend on whether they were making a concerted effort to corner the market by driving competitors out of business. I see your point, however- if China really are only the world's 11th largest steel exporter then it's hard to see that it would be worth their while dumping steel to try and corner the market. I don't actually know what the score is, just putting my oar in!

The US did actually threaten to put tariffs on Airbus planes:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jan/26/bombardier-us-tariffs-imports-uk-trump-jobs-belfast

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7 minutes ago, Rave said:

It really would depend on whether they were making a concerted effort to corner the market by driving competitors out of business. I see your point, however- if China really are only the world's 11th largest steel exporter then it's hard to see that it would be worth their while dumping steel to try and corner the market. I don't actually know what the score is, just putting my oar in!

The US did actually threaten to put tariffs on Airbus planes:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jan/26/bombardier-us-tariffs-imports-uk-trump-jobs-belfast

They were No 1 in 2016 by a country mile can`t see much changing in 12month or so

Page 14

https://www.worldsteel.org/en/dam/jcr:0474d208-9108-4927-ace8-4ac5445c5df8/World+Steel+in+Figures+2017.pdf

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25 minutes ago, Libspero said:

Ok,  I was only going to use the one example but if you insist..  should the ROW impose anti dumping tariffs on US and European civil aircraft manufacturers?

Aircraft would be particularly difficult to effectively put tariffs on, as they can be purchased in any country, and cross jurisdictions routinely.

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19 minutes ago, Hail the Tripod said:

Aircraft would be particularly difficult to effectively put tariffs on, as they can be purchased in any country, and cross jurisdictions routinely.

Like nearly any other commodity I guess.

My point isn't really about aircraft..  I'm just trying to discern whether "dumping" is really about any more than putting tariffs on countries that offer better value than we do, or simply phrased,  protectionism. 

The message I'm getting is the main criteria for "anti-dumping" is whether something is made in China or not.  Which too me suggests, yes, protectionism.     I'm not saying that is good or bad.  But lets call a spade a spade.

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Quote

 

Some £360 million of Britain's yearly steel exports to America would be impacted by the tariff, according to an official in the Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Department.

Britain, Canada, the European Union and leading Republicans like Paul Ryan, the House speaker, all expressed concern over the move. 

Jean Claude Juncker, the European Commission president, hinted at a trade war as he said: "'The EU will react firmly to defend our interests.

 

Well,  that would put us Brits and Europeans in our place with our pesky dumping and poor environmental standards..

Edited by Libspero

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China produces 50% of the world's steel.... I doubt it's only the 11th biggest exporter...

Over the last few years Chinese steel has been used extensively in UK construction, The new South Queensferry bridge outside Edinburgh is using 7000 tonnes of Chinese steel. Something like 40% of steel reinforcement in concrete is Chinese...

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I'm guessing but the timing of this seems a smart move. Piss off your core support with potential gun control laws then please them with America first protectionism. Vote Trump to protect jobs or abandon him to protect mental kids buying guns.

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2 hours ago, Great Guy said:

China produces 50% of the world's steel.... I doubt it's only the 11th biggest exporter...

Over the last few years Chinese steel has been used extensively in UK construction, The new South Queensferry bridge outside Edinburgh is using 7000 tonnes of Chinese steel. Something like 40% of steel reinforcement in concrete is Chinese...

No 1 by a long long way ,was surprised by the second one though  ...my post above has a table at the link

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4 hours ago, Great Guy said:

China produces 50% of the world's steel.... I doubt it's only the 11th biggest exporter...

Over the last few years Chinese steel has been used extensively in UK construction, The new South Queensferry bridge outside Edinburgh is using 7000 tonnes of Chinese steel. Something like 40% of steel reinforcement in concrete is Chinese...

That makes sense..  China is producing tonnes of architectural steel because it is in the process of homing a quarter of the worlds population.  Same goes for India. 

They have the demand and they have the economy of scale..  it makes sense they would have some of the worlds largest and most competitive steel manufacturers.   I don’t see anything conspiratorial about that, it just sounds like market dynamics to me.

Edited by Libspero

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EU tarrifs on Chinese steel = good

Obama increasing tarriffs on Chinese steel to 500% = good

Trump increasing tariffs on Chinese steel = very bad

This article is from May 2016....

"China’s ministry of finance said it would continue to implement a tax rebate policy on steel exports to fund a costly capacity closure plan. It plans to eliminate 100m-150m tonnes of annual production – more than the US produces every year – over the next five years."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/18/uk-and-eu-urged-to-act-on-chinese-steel-dumping-after-us-hikes-duty-on-imports#img-1

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1 hour ago, Libspero said:

That makes sense..  China is producing tonnes of architectural steel because it is in the process of homing a quarter of the worlds population.  Same goes for India. 

They have the demand and they have the economy of scale..  it makes sense they would have some of the worlds largest and most competitive steel manufacturers.   I don’t see anything conspiratorial about that, it just sounds like market dynamics to me.

The problem is there domestic market has gone off a cliff edge ,but they don`t want to stop production so they are selling at cost or below cost  there steel industry is vast and modern in the main 

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8 minutes ago, Long time lurking said:

The problem is there domestic market has gone off a cliff edge ,but they don`t want to stop production so they are selling at cost or below cost  there steel industry is vast and modern in the main 

They are dumping. A few years ago China was  net importer if plastic, now it is a net exporter, aside for the biggest use of plastic being in building construction, China's economy has fallen off a cliff, as you say.

Edited by Hopeful

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I

41 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

They are dumping. A few years ago China was  net importer if plastic, now it is a net exporter, aside for the biggest use of plastic being in building construction, China's economy has fallen off a cliff, as you say.

I agree totally most of my  work is in the steel industry at one point raw strip from china was selling for less than 70% of the cost price of UK made steel 

Section products (the easy stuff to make) was even less 

Edited by Long time lurking

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17 minutes ago, Long time lurking said:

I

I agree totally most of my  work is in the steel industry at one point raw strip from china was selling for less than 70% of the cost price of UK made steel 

Section products (the easy stuff to make) was even less 

And unlike America, we can't do anything about the dumping (tariffs etc)  because of EU regualations

I have a feeling that if we were outside the EU that America would look kindly on our steel industry, except we don't like Trump

(China certainly isn't making as many UPVC window frames)

Edited by Hopeful

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2 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

And unlike America, we can't do anything about the dumping (tariffs etc)  because of EU regualations

I have a feeling that if we were outside the EU that America would look kindly on our steel industry, except we don't like Trump

(China certainly isn't making as many UPVC window frames)

Well, it’s mainly idiots like the bus driver’s son. I quite like him. :)

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If a government spends money that stays within that country in order to increase foreign currency coming in, it is a form of dumping.

btw, we do like Trump. It's just the so called BBC and the skyshouters that doesn't like Trump.

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Just now, jm51 said:

If a government spends money that stays within that country in order to increase foreign currency coming in, it is a form of dumping.

btw, we do like Trump. It's just the so called BBC and the skyshouters that doesn't like Trump.

I'd like to think Mr Trump realises that the Guardian, BBC etc don't represent majority opinion in the UK. 

The fact that one of his first meetings after election was with Mr Farage makes me somewhat hopeful. Nige will have set him straight.

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