• Welcome to DOSBODS

    Please consider creating a free account to be able to access all the features of the DOSBODS community. It only takes 20 seconds!

Sign in to follow this  
Byron

Politics they are a changin'

Recommended Posts

I maybe wrong, but looking back over the years, Prague and Solidarity, fall of the Berlin wall, Timisoara square, the Arab spring, end of Saddam, end of Gaddafi, there is a clear movement detectable in politics, first the removal of the grotesque, now the swing away from the lesser grotesque.

So, we get Brexit, Trump, startling results for Geert Wilders and Le Pen, now the Italian election.

It seems to me that what we are seeing is an end to the old forms and the arise of a new.

Elitism versus Popularism.

(not the disgruntled lefties populist)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Byron said:

I maybe wrong, but looking back over the years, Prague and Solidarity, fall of the Berlin wall, Timisoara square, the Arab spring, end of Saddam, end of Gaddafi, there is a clear movement detectable in politics, first the removal of the grotesque, now the swing away from the lesser grotesque.

So, we get Brexit, Trump, startling results for Geert Wilders and Le Pen, now the Italian election.

It seems to me that what we are seeing is an end to the old forms and the arise of a new.

Elitism versus Popularism.

(not the disgruntled lefties populist)

We can but hope.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I want a political party that stands for reason and logic unfortunately in today's climate that is considered hate speech.

Many people are waking up to the fact that Islam has impinged on our freedom to go about our business without having to go through endless security checks in all aspects of our life.

It is an unavoidable truth that the UK was a far better place before Islam came to these shores.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, stokiescum said:

im betting your avarage greek is wishing they had now what they invented 2000 years ago.a lot of whats happening there is kept out of the popular press.germanys stripping it bare

The EU. Was the very worse thing to happen to Europe.  An unelected cabal of the powerful. Totalitarian state with the illusion of democracy.  

The different nations of Europe should band together and organise an uprising. 

All these young, new leaders with their shiny new parties?  IMHO, just more distraction. “Oh look, it’s all changing, we have these new movements “. 

No, just different meat puppets. Those pulling the strings remain the same

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, One percent said:

The EU. Was the very worse thing to happen to Europe.  An unelected cabal of the powerful. Totalitarian state with the illusion of democracy.  

The different nations of Europe should band together and organise an uprising. 

All these young, new leaders with their shiny new parties?  IMHO, just more distraction. “Oh look, it’s all changing, we have these new movements “. 

No, just different meat puppets. Those pulling the strings remain the same

It's amazing how few rabid pro-EU people are unaware of how the bureaucracy of the EU works. That the EU parliament is really a virtually powerless element, whose only real function is as a disguise of democratic accountability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is Internationalism versus Nationalism, pretty much just how it has been for the last 100 years. Attitudes are hardening and I can only see a return of totalitarianism only this time instead of Communism we have Neoliberalism. So it is old school capitalist-nationalism against weird internationalist neoliberal surveillance capitalism/cronyism/oligarchy.

If the proles could see the wood for the trees they would be old school capitalist-nationalists. Sadly, lots of idiots still think they are communists, as if that has ever worked, and as if the whole concept has not been fully captured and colonised by the neoliberal project. The people nowadays who think they are socialist or communists are really just the useful idiots who vote for higher immigration, more state benefits for landlords, higher tax credits for corporations and a lower standard of life for the 99%. None of these things have anything to do with socialism and it was a wonderful coup by the neoliberals to convince the idiots that they ever were.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Byron said:

I maybe wrong, but looking back over the years, Prague and Solidarity, fall of the Berlin wall, Timisoara square, the Arab spring, end of Saddam, end of Gaddafi, there is a clear movement detectable in politics, first the removal of the grotesque, now the swing away from the lesser grotesque.

So, we get Brexit, Trump, startling results for Geert Wilders and Le Pen, now the Italian election.

It seems to me that what we are seeing is an end to the old forms and the arise of a new.

Elitism versus Popularism.

(not the disgruntled lefties populist)

Some truth here but the established politicians and elite are very, very powerful and have adapted as time and technology has progressed.

After WW2 the developed world wanted something better than the previous elite/plebs setup, so the fear of communism and/or revolution and violence of the people forced the creation of a more equitable society. However note that in very, very few countries was a form of real democracy established that would be more difficult to subvert, Switzerland is one of the only examples(and they still manage to kid people quite a bit). Unfortunately in most places nothing was put in place to prevent the return to the norm.

Since the 80s/90s and the global failure of communism that fear has faded, the elite have returned with a vengeance and are turning the screw slowly, exploiting the weaknesses of human nature to return us to the elite/slaves situation that dominated human history.

They've subverted the main media outlets everywhere. Where necessary they've subverted political parties. People are getting desperate to have their voices heard but there is nowhere to turn in the majority of "democracies".  And manipulation is everywhere, most are aware something is wrong but don't know who to believe.

It isn't going to end well.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm always amazed at how the media accuse the ground swell of public opinion when it goes against their world view as "populism". 

I've always thought that politicians were always guilty of that as they vie for power and control sacrificing principles for expediency. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, sleepwello'nights said:

I'm always amazed at how the media accuse the ground swell of public opinion when it goes against their world view as "populism". 

I've always thought that politicians were always guilty of that as they vie for power and control sacrificing principles for expediency. 

social engineering at its finest but if you say anything your concidered a swivel eyed loon.ive just been kicked off a group for pointing out on a homeless thread that if we didnt have a million poles here and 300,000 other east europeans and god knows who else that there would be no homeless in theory....aparently thats racist

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, swissy_fit said:

Some truth here but the established politicians and elite are very, very powerful and have adapted as time and technology has progressed.

After WW2 the developed world wanted something better than the previous elite/plebs setup, so the fear of communism and/or revolution and violence of the people forced the creation of a more equitable society. However note that in very, very few countries was a form of real democracy established that would be more difficult to subvert, Switzerland is one of the only examples(and they still manage to kid people quite a bit). Unfortunately in most places nothing was put in place to prevent the return to the norm.

Since the 80s/90s and the global failure of communism that fear has faded, the elite have returned with a vengeance and are turning the screw slowly, exploiting the weaknesses of human nature to return us to the elite/slaves situation that dominated human history.

They've subverted the main media outlets everywhere. Where necessary they've subverted political parties. People are getting desperate to have their voices heard but there is nowhere to turn in the majority of "democracies".  And manipulation is everywhere, most are aware something is wrong but don't know who to believe.

It isn't going to end well.

 

Top post there swissy.  Exactly this.  They did not change post WWII for altruistic reasons.  They had battled hardened men coming back from war with guns.  They promised more equality post WWI and did not deliver.  With the rise of communism, they did not dare to try and pull that trick again.

As you say, the mechanisms for protection were never put in place....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, billfunk said:

It is Internationalism versus Nationalism, pretty much just how it has been for the last 100 years. Attitudes are hardening and I can only see a return of totalitarianism only this time instead of Communism we have Neoliberalism. So it is old school capitalist-nationalism against weird internationalist neoliberal surveillance capitalism/cronyism/oligarchy.

If the proles could see the wood for the trees they would be old school capitalist-nationalists. Sadly, lots of idiots still think they are communists, as if that has ever worked, and as if the whole concept has not been fully captured and colonised by the neoliberal project. The people nowadays who think they are socialist or communists are really just the useful idiots who vote for higher immigration, more state benefits for landlords, higher tax credits for corporations and a lower standard of life for the 99%. None of these things have anything to do with socialism and it was a wonderful coup by the neoliberals to convince the idiots that they ever were.

Excellent post!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, swissy_fit said:

Some truth here but the established politicians and elite are very, very powerful and have adapted as time and technology has progressed.

After WW2 the developed world wanted something better than the previous elite/plebs setup, so the fear of communism and/or revolution and violence of the people forced the creation of a more equitable society. However note that in very, very few countries was a form of real democracy established that would be more difficult to subvert, Switzerland is one of the only examples(and they still manage to kid people quite a bit). Unfortunately in most places nothing was put in place to prevent the return to the norm.

Since the 80s/90s and the global failure of communism that fear has faded, the elite have returned with a vengeance and are turning the screw slowly, exploiting the weaknesses of human nature to return us to the elite/slaves situation that dominated human history.

They've subverted the main media outlets everywhere. Where necessary they've subverted political parties. People are getting desperate to have their voices heard but there is nowhere to turn in the majority of "democracies".  And manipulation is everywhere, most are aware something is wrong but don't know who to believe.

It isn't going to end well.

Interestingly, after the Parthian war and the Antonine plague had devastated the upper echelons of the military and civilian elites in Imperial Rome, there followed a golden age of opportunity and social mobility under the stewardship of Marcus Aurelius that lasted about 50 years. Then the (new) elites closed ranks again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Hail the Tripod said:

Interestingly, after the Parthian war and the Antonine plague had devastated the upper echelons of the military and civilian elites in Imperial Rome, there followed a golden age of opportunity and social mobility under the stewardship of Marcus Aurelius that lasted about 50 years. Then the (new) elites closed ranks again.

Nothing more than human nature then. It seems to me quite natural to want to allow your children to enjoy the privileges and benefits you achieved for yourself. If others are seeking to take them away from you surely you would group together with others in similar positions to protect your families and yourself. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, billfunk said:

It is Internationalism versus Nationalism, pretty much just how it has been for the last 100 years. Attitudes are hardening and I can only see a return of totalitarianism only this time instead of Communism we have Neoliberalism. So it is old school capitalist-nationalism against weird internationalist neoliberal surveillance capitalism/cronyism/oligarchy.

If the proles could see the wood for the trees they would be old school capitalist-nationalists. Sadly, lots of idiots still think they are communists, as if that has ever worked, and as if the whole concept has not been fully captured and colonised by the neoliberal project. The people nowadays who think they are socialist or communists are really just the useful idiots who vote for higher immigration, more state benefits for landlords, higher tax credits for corporations and a lower standard of life for the 99%. None of these things have anything to do with socialism and it was a wonderful coup by the neoliberals to convince the idiots that they ever were.

Good post. Orwell wrote that there are very few real socialists in England. By 'socialism' they mean fair shares, fair play etc. They don't mean slogans, marches, gulags, uniforms, secret police and all the ghastly paraphenalia that comes with socialism when it is put into practice. It's the same today. The Corbynista snowflakes would not last five minutes under the kind of state that someone like Steptoe would like to put into place. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Hail the Tripod said:

Interestingly, after the Parthian war and the Antonine plague had devastated the upper echelons of the military and civilian elites in Imperial Rome, there followed a golden age of opportunity and social mobility under the stewardship of Marcus Aurelius that lasted about 50 years. Then the (new) elites closed ranks again.

 the 4 before him wernt bad either,marcus is the last of the 5 good emporers and some of them did not rule alone,ive no idea why mind you.the spartans always had 2 kings but im meandering.his death marked the end of romes halocon days imo.

Edited by stokiescum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Hail the Tripod said:

Interestingly, after the Parthian war and the Antonine plague had devastated the upper echelons of the military and civilian elites in Imperial Rome, there followed a golden age of opportunity and social mobility under the stewardship of Marcus Aurelius that lasted about 50 years. Then the (new) elites closed ranks again.

Don't know that history but it makes perfect sense, that's how humans behave. 

14 minutes ago, sleepwello'nights said:

Nothing more than human nature then. It seems to me quite natural to want to allow your children to enjoy the privileges and benefits you achieved for yourself. If others are seeking to take them away from you surely you would group together with others in similar positions to protect your families and yourself. 

Quite. Humans have to have rules or other constraints (like fear) imposed on them in order not to behave like shits. 

Edited by swissy_fit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, swissy_fit said:

They've subverted the main media outlets everywhere.

Social media has been identified as one of the main reasons MSM news is weakened, particularly state propaganda machines like BBC. 

Hence the need to improve FB, Twitter, YouTube to censor hate speech.

FOX News has been taken off SKY, now we are seeing calls for RT to be taken off too.

Along with verification of approved news media, and removal of fake news bloggers and posters, eventually the narrative can be brought back under tighter control.

Talk to people that survived WW2, their perspective of news media, whether TV or print is typically that you shouldn't believe a word they tell you, unless it suits 'them'.

This wisdom was mostly lost among baby boomers and their offspring, but is returning, thanks to the blatant arrogance of covering, EU, BREXIT, Merkel and Trump in so biased a way.

You only have to reflect on the almost complete wiping out of any reporting from Germany and Italy of the increase in anti-EU feeling. Next to zero coverage of Italian election result - blitzed by endless speculative discussion of supposed Russian intrigue.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

7 minutes ago, stokiescum said:

 the 4 before him wernt bad either,marcus is the last of the 5 good emporers and some of them did not rule alone,ive no idea why mind you.the spartans always had 2 kings but im meandering.

The 5 good emperors is really just something Machiavelli made up. Yet perhaps it has some relevance in itself as our democracies have become rather more dynastic, most notably in the US with the Kennedy/Bush/Clinton families.:

Quote

From the study of this history we may also learn how a good government is to be established; for while all the emperors who succeeded to the throne by birth, except Titus, were bad, all were good who succeeded by adoption, as in the case of the five from Nerva to Marcus. But as soon as the empire fell once more to the heirs by birth, its ruin recommenced.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Hail the Tripod said:

 

The 5 good emperors is really just something Machiavelli made up. Yet perhaps it has some relevance in itself as our democracies have become rather more dynastic, most notably in the US with the Kennedy/Bush/Clinton families.:

 

i think they adopted there sucsesors ie chose.ok sometimes a blood relitive but not automaticly a son.so in theory a better chance of being a better leader i presume

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, M S E Refugee said:

I want a political party that stands for reason and logic unfortunately in today's climate that is considered hate speech.

Many people are waking up to the fact that Islam has impinged on our freedom to go about our business without having to go through endless security checks in all aspects of our life.

It is an unavoidable truth that the UK was a far better place before Islam came to these shores.

how many of these leftys would be allowed there views in an islamic country....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.