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Frank Hovis

Murder by self-driving car

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Who's going to jail then?

The human monitor, the programmer, the car?

Uber said it is suspending self-driving car tests in all North American cities after a fatal accident.

A 49-year-old woman was hit by a car and killed as she crossed the street in Tempe, Arizona.

While self-driving cars have been involved in multiple accidents, it is thought to be the first time a self-driving car has been involved in a fatal pedestrian collision.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43459156

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10 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Who's going to jail then?

The human monitor, the programmer, the car?

Uber said it is suspending self-driving car tests in all North American cities after a fatal accident.

A 49-year-old woman was hit by a car and killed as she crossed the street in Tempe, Arizona.

While self-driving cars have been involved in multiple accidents, it is thought to be the first time a self-driving car has been involved in a fatal pedestrian collision.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43459156

 

Quote

Uber chief Dara Khosrowshahi said the death was "incredibly sad news".

"We're thinking of the victim's family as we work with local law enforcement to understand what happened," he said in a tweet.

 

Somehow, I don't believe a word of that.I doubt Dara gives a toss for the victim or their family,

The concern will be for Uber's self-indulgent self-drive programme, that's Dara's sad news.

 

 

Edited by Hopeful

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1 minute ago, Chewing Grass said:

Surprise, surprise, have the directors been arrested for corporate manslaughter.

Person was jay walking. I wonder if that will be an excuse. Self-drive cars only expect people on pedestrian crossings.

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4 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

Person was jay walking. I wonder if that will be an excuse. Self-drive cars only expect people on pedestrian crossings.

Pranged bike, so presume a cyclist involved in accident.

I'm sort of mixed on this, don't like Uber as a company one bit but there will always be some level of accidents. Would self driving cars with say 20-30% fewer accidents be a generally preferable situation compared to otherwise? Culpability is a minefield though, just has to rest with the whole company though I suppose and covered by insurance. Very tricky.

 

Edited by onlyme

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5 minutes ago, XswampyX said:

Interesting one. If Uber pay out then you won't be able to drive 10' in one without some pedestrian, cyclist, child, old person... etc etc. falling all over the bonnet. 

By default all these cars will be absolutely festooned with cameras, liability either way in most cases would be pretty obvious particularly in the US with its jaywalking rules.

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Hmm, wanky as Uber may be in some respects, I am quite looking forward to autonomous cars, especially when they go electric. So am hoping this was an obvious error on the part of the person killed.

If the footage shows that a normal human driver would probably have avoided the accident, it will set the development programme back a long way.

 

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24 minutes ago, swissy_fit said:

If the footage shows that a normal human driver would probably have avoided the accident, it will set the development programme back a long way.

The AI will learn from this incident and it won't happen ever again in any Uber car. Yay!

And that's a problem. It's only our limited experience on the roads that enables us to just jump in a car and tear off into the sunset. If you had knowledge of every incident that ever happened, say pulling away, turning left, exiting at a roundabout and making an emergency stop. You would never ever take the car out.

The  AI will have to decide  Uber will have to decide when to potentially kill people.

  

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Distinct problem in the UK where quite rightly unless you are on a motorway pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders have the right of way no matter what as these roads were not built with cars in mind.

Anything else is potentially legitimising murder with a blunt object in that it was their fault as they shouldn't have been there. 

The world actually managed to function quite nicely if a little slower before the invention of the motor car as the UK had a most excellent railway network and all cities and most large towns had trams.

Just think, the petrol engined car has brought us nothing but trouble, crap public transport, crap commutes, clogged roads, clogged estates, air and environmental polution, arab sponsored religious nutters, obesity etc etc.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Chewing Grass said:

Distinct problem in the UK where quite rightly unless you are on a motorway pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders have the right of way no matter what as these roads were not built with cars in mind.

Anything else is potentially legitimising murder with a blunt object in that it was their fault as they shouldn't have been there. 

The world actually managed to function quite nicely if a little slower before the invention of the motor car as the UK had a most excellent railway network and all cities and most large towns had trams.

Just think, the petrol engined car has brought us nothing but trouble, crap public transport, crap commutes, clogged roads, clogged estates, air and environmental polution, arab sponsored religious nutters, obesity etc etc.

 

 

The daughter is more of a regular traveller and commuter than I am and she's still at school. She was talking about transport last night - busses smelling of piss and trains that either don't turn up or are regularly rammed plus let's say undesirable attention not long ago - needles to say she is gagging to get her own car. 

Edit -She refuses to use taxis full stop.

Edited by onlyme

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Just now, onlyme said:

The daughter is more of a regular traveller and commuter than I am and she's still at school. She was talking about transport last night - busses smelling of piss and trains that either don't turn up or are regularly rammed plus let's say undesirable attention not long ago - needles to say she is gagging to get her own car. 

But it never used to be that way when decent people used buses and trains, the car has ushered in an era of abdication from everyday courtesy, decency and respect as we move around in a little tin bubble isolated from our fellow countrymen, uncouth or not.

UK cities are shit-holes we created by cutting ourselves off from the world in our jouneys in from suburbia and in our cosseted air-conditioned, 4 bed executive detached, isolation have stood idle as successive governments have filled the inner cities with the dreggs of the 3rd world.

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3 minutes ago, Chewing Grass said:

But it never used to be that way when decent people used buses and trains, the car has ushered in an era of abdication from everyday courtesy, decency and respect as we move around in a little tin bubble isolated from our fellow countrymen, uncouth or not.

UK cities are shit-holes we created by cutting ourselves off from the world in our jouneys in from suburbia and in our cosseted air-conditioned, 4 bed executive detached, isolation have stood idle as successive governments have filled the inner cities with the dreggs of the 3rd world.

I'm sure decent people are still generally using the systems but for one reason or another are unwilling or unable to act as rule enforcers. Demise of conductors on buses, guards on trains, private company vs public transport system, lack of support from police etc . As it has got worse them yes the public has escaped to their bubble.

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18 minutes ago, onlyme said:

The daughter is more of a regular traveller and commuter than I am and she's still at school. She was talking about transport last night - busses smelling of piss and trains that either don't turn up or are regularly rammed plus let's say undesirable attention not long ago - needles to say she is gagging to get her own car. 

Edit -She refuses to use taxis full stop.

Im keen on banning charging all cars from urban centres.

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2 minutes ago, spygirl said:

Im keen on banning charging all cars from urban centres.

The way it is going many city centres will have outright ban zones - at least private owned cars in the not too distant. 

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I have nothing against Uber or self driving cars..  this set back is a shame.  As others point out,  with the sheer traffic volume and ever stricter / complicated burden of compliance placed on drivers motoring is hardly an enjoyable past time any more.   These things are unfortunate,  but given the technology is still so new it’s more incredible really that we are only now seeing our first fatality. 

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7 hours ago, spygirl said:

This self driving car stuff is wank.

Just put some tracks down ffs. Go for an uber tram.

Technically we probably could have had driverless cars, in the seventies or eighties, if we'd had some huge infrastructure programme to put a slot in the middle of the road, like a giant scalextric but there was no real interest in doing so. I do think it's only the internet and electronic tech. from an entertainment point of view, makes it appealing now when it's a realistic proposition to watch a tv show or post on facebook whilst on the move.

The thing is with so much tech by the time it comes to useful maturity the ideal application is in itself obsolete. It's like internet mobile network connected tablets would be fantastic for a sales rep, visiting shops and businesses to take orders, they can update stock and inventory real time and submit the order show pictures of the whole product range they can't carry samples of etc. but by the time it's arrived most of those businesses have gone or they'll just prefer to order online without having to deal with anyone. I think driverless will be the same by the time it matures people will no longer by commuting to offices at all. There'll be delivery applications but I do wonder how much volume from that will have disappeared through obsolescence. 

Edited by SNACR

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The technology will continue to develop in fundamentally the same way. It will be the pedestrians that are forced to change. We will have to adopt the Germanic model across the whole of the developed world. If you take a sharp dash across a road at an inopportune time you will get run over. You must use designated crossing points so the technology can understand your movements. Jaywalking now carries a significant danger of death. People must conform to the demands of technology not the other way round.

 

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3 hours ago, Libspero said:

I have nothing against Uber or self driving cars..  this set back is a shame.  As others point out,  with the sheer traffic volume and ever stricter / complicated burden of compliance placed on drivers motoring is hardly an enjoyable past time any more.   These things are unfortunate,  but given the technology is still so new it’s more incredible really that we are only now seeing our first fatality. 

I fear that in the world of self-driving cars pedestrians will be barricaded off and walking will become even more of an unpleasant experience and inconvenience.

I saw a very good black and whte cartoon once that I cannot find again, but it showed a typical urban city block where the roads had been replaced by deep ravines and the pedestrian crossings by bridges. The people were squeezed onto narro edges their backs against tower blocks and their feet overhanging a vertical drop. It drove home how unfriendly the car and the car driver has made normal pedestrian life.

Edited by Hopeful

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The problem with urban life is the rapid increase in population with the associated awful and increasing congestion everywhere - rather than the car.  Most places there was a reasonable balance not so long ago.

Edited by twocents

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