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Cunning Plan

New British passports will be Bleu

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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/22/post-brexit-passports-set-to-be-made-by-franco-dutch-firm

This is one of the things I will be glad to be shot of post brexit.

We clearly need to get a good price - but is price everything?

We are talking a possible saving of £5m per year - but how many staff in Newcastle will De La Rue need to lay off because of the lost cotract, and how much will that cost in benefits etc?

Hopefully we can look at the bigger picture in future and not simply accept a lower price from Europe and more UK job losses.

 

 

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Based upon my experience of tendering this would have been caught up by the OJEU rules, another delightful imposition from Europe, so you have to be able demonstrate in the event of legal challenge that you have awarded the contract on a "fair" basis with no option to choose a British firm over a French one just because it is Britain and preserves British jobs.

Scrap OJEU (which we are hopefully doing) and you can award to a British firm over a French one without having to objectively justify it.

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Posted (edited)

I expect given time the UK might even be capable of manufacturing them in the UK.

All those millions of Brexit voting pensioners that Vince Cable mentioned will be dancing in the street and also looking forward to being able to buy new maps with lots of pink on them.  Pink just for the sake of it. 

To be fair I think the colour of the passport crossed very few people's minds in voting during the eu referendum - but why not make it blue it's as good a colour for a passport as any.  The colour seems to be more important to the people running things than to most other people.  It's about the only thing they've managed to arrange since the vote.

Edited by twocents

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2 minutes ago, twocents said:

I expect given time the UK might even be capable of manufacturing them in the UK.

All those millions of Brexit voting pensioners that Vince Cable mentioned will be dancing in the street and also looking forward to being able to buy new maps with lots of pink on them.  Pink just for the sake of it. 

To be fair I think the colour of the passport crossed very few people's minds in voting during the eu referendum - but why bot make it blue it's as good a colour for a passport as any other.  The colour seems to be more important to the people running things than to most other people. 

With the passport it was symbolic of the loss of sovereignity that the document each British citizen presents to the world on travel was changed by the EU to their colour.  The reversing of that change symbolically takes back that sovereignty.

If I had been asked to list what symbolic chnages I would have liked to see to give a tangible reminder that we're no longer ruled by Brussels then it woudl be those sort of things: Passports, number plates, and stripping that stars logo from signs.

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11 minutes ago, twocents said:

I expect given time the UK might even be capable of manufacturing them in the UK.

 

We already can - in fact we make passports and currency for a lot of other countries.

http://www.delarue.com/

Worth a look - they have always been a quietly impressive British company.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

With the passport it was symbolic of the loss of sovereignity that the document each British citizen presents to the world on travel was changed by the EU to their colour.  The reversing of that change symbolically takes back that sovereignty.

If I had been asked to list what symbolic chnages I would have liked to see to give a tangible reminder that we're no longer ruled by Brussels then it woudl be those sort of things: Passports, number plates, and stripping that stars logo from signs.

I'm sure it is largely symbolic but I don't think it's something that's important to most British people even though they're allocated as the main reason by those making the decisions on such matters.  A nice touch maybe but not that important and the blue colour was more important when the UK changed it than it is now.  I think that also applies to the older generation despite what Vince Cable says.

It's good for the UK to indicate its difference and why not revert to blue as it's a safe bet it will be generally accepted and even popular except maybe by the most avid of remainers who will still want the eu colour.

Edited by twocents

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Just now, twocents said:

I'm sure it is largely symbolic but I don't think it's something that's important to most British people even though they're allocated as the main reason by those making the decisions on such matter.  A nice touch maybe but not that important and the colour was more important when the UK lost the blue colour than it is now.  I think that also applies to the older generation despite what Vince Cable says.

It's good for the UK to indicate its difference and why not revert to blue as it's a safe bet it will be generally accepted except maybe by the most avid of remainers who will still want the eu colour.

I think this necessarily only applies to the older generation because they are the only ones who remember our pre Brussels passport independence given that they changed to maroon in 1988, 29 years ago so realistically you would have to be at least 47 to have ever had one.

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6 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

We already can - in fact we make passports and currency for a lot of other countries.

http://www.delarue.com/

Worth a look - they have always been a quietly impressive British company.

They mustn't have been able to match the price?

 

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40 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/22/post-brexit-passports-set-to-be-made-by-franco-dutch-firm

This is one of the things I will be glad to be shot of post brexit.

We clearly need to get a good price - but is price everything?

We are talking a possible saving of £5m per year - but how many staff in Newcastle will De La Rue need to lay off because of the lost cotract, and how much will that cost in benefits etc?

Hopefully we can look at the bigger picture in future and not simply accept a lower price from Europe and more UK job losses.

 

 

Never in a million years would the French have allowed the equivalent thing to happen. They'd have found a way round the EU rules. One of the few things I agree with them about.

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25 minutes ago, twocents said:

I expect given time the UK might even be capable of manufacturing them in the UK.

Are they not made in Chadderton?
I'm sure there was a heist of some. 

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/five-jailed-over-inside-job-933031

A COURIER who helped stage a fake robbery of thousands of UK passports highly valued by criminals and terrorists was jailed today for four and a half years. Alan Burke, 49, was the driver's mate when the 'sham raid' took place in Chadderton, Greater Manchester, shortly after he picked up more than than 3,650 passports and visas from a printworks.

Father-of-10 Mohammed Bilal Khan, 53, of Werneth, who was described as a 'prime mover' in the crime, was jailed for five and a half years, while another key figure, Pakistani national Mohammed Fiaz, 34, of Stretford, was imprisoned for three and a half years. 
 

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2 minutes ago, twocents said:

They mustn't have been able to match the price?

 

No. From what I can make out they were about £1 per passport too expensive. Just put the price up - it is one thing I would be happy to pay for

And as I said, it is not all about price - do we want a bunch of Frenchies controlling the very thing that gives unquestioned access to the UK?

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2 minutes ago, swissy_fit said:

I'd rather have something real for the UK instead of symbols. 

I want both.

Knock out Johnny in his usual obtuse way missed mny point about the way the EU plastered official documents, flags and signs with their stars logo in the same way that Germany draped its swastika emblem over official buildings post conquest to symbolise ownership.  So to symbolise freedom from their ownership you remove and burn those symbols.

He thought I was saying EU = Nazi Germany, which I wasn't, rather than understanding the power of highly-visual symbols.

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3 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

I think this necessarily only applies to the older generation because they are the only ones who remember our pre Brussels passport independence given that they changed to maroon in 1988, 29 years ago so realistically you would have to be at least 47 to have ever had one.

I think it's more an establishment thing and they like to shift the blame (blame for want of another word) for their symbolic decisions on others.  Yes the older people will be the only ones who remember those passports but I doubt that many are that bothered.  

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

No. From what I can make out they were about £1 per passport too expensive. Just put the price up - it is one thing I would be happy to pay for

And as I said, it is not all about price - do we want a bunch of Frenchies controlling the very thing that gives unquestioned access to the UK?

That means they weren't able to match the price.  To whoever makes the decisions that was important.

Edited by twocents

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1 minute ago, twocents said:

I think it's more an establishment thing and they like to shift the blame (blame for want of another word) for their symbolic decisions on others.  Yes the older people will be the only ones who remember those passports but I doubt that many are that bothered.  

I despise the EU and always have since it went beyond trade ageements.  Anything that rubs the noses of its bureaucrats in our ripping up every vestige of this bit of their empire gives me joy. 

1 minute ago, twocents said:

That means they weren't able to match the price.  To whoever makes the decisions that was important.

The OJEU rules mean that they could not the have awarded it to the British company unless there was soemthing major that could overrule the price differential; such as a material diffeence in quality.

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1 minute ago, twocents said:

That means they weren't able to match the price.  To whoever makes the decisions that was important.

Do you always go for the cheapest price - or are there other 'invisible' factors that you take into consideration?

And printers are notorious for underquoting large contracts.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

I despise the EU and always have since it went beyond trade ageements.  Anything that rubs the noses of its bureaucrats in our ripping up every vestige of this bit of their empire gives me joy. 

Yes but I'm not going to lose any sleep over the colour of the passport.  Blue is nice and it's nice that it's what the UK passport used to be but for me that's as far as it goes now.

It wouldn't have any influence on how I voted in the referendum.

Edited by twocents

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2 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

I want both.

Knock out Johnny in his usual obtuse way missed mny point about the way the EU plastered official documents, flags and signs with their stars logo in the same way that Germany draped its swastika emblem over official buildings post conquest to symbolise ownership.  So to symbolise freedom from their ownership you remove and burn those symbols.

He thought I was saying EU = Nazi Germany, which I wasn't, rather than understanding the power of highly-visual symbols.

That's fine, Frank, but it seems to me that for now some minor symbols is all the UK is going to get.

I suppose it's not unexpected given that virtually the entire establishment is Remainer and there is no real democracy in the UK, but it's quite shocking IMO the way Brexit has developed into Brexit only in name and blue passports.

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

Do you always go for the cheapest price - or are there other 'invisible' factors that you take into consideration?

And printers are notorious for underquoting large contracts.

Not necessarily but I'm not making the decisions on the passport.

Edited by twocents

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1 minute ago, twocents said:

Not necessarily but I;m not making the decisions on the passport.

But the point, as made above, is that neither are we. It is being dictated to us by EU rules.

I would have thought that on a project with so much inherent risk as this, the incumbent supplier, with 8 years fault free service, would probably be worth a small premium over an untested overseas supplier.

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38 minutes ago, twocents said:

I expect given time the UK might even be capable of manufacturing them in the UK.

All those millions of Brexit voting pensioners that Vince Cable mentioned will be dancing in the street and also looking forward to being able to buy new maps with lots of pink on them.  Pink just for the sake of it. 

To be fair I think the colour of the passport crossed very few people's minds in voting during the eu referendum - but why not make it blue it's as good a colour for a passport as any.  The colour seems to be more important to the people running things than to most other people.  It's about the only thing they've managed to arrange since the vote.

Entirely sensible when running a border to be able to quickly differentiate identification paperwork, divergence is good, assists in ID fraud prevention too as it is another form that has to be counterfeited. As it stands now crack the common EU passport and you have effectively compromised the ID system of the whole of Europe - well worth the effort, though whether than is so important as it was with biometrics / cross referencing with data on computer systems at customs is arguable..

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1 minute ago, onlyme said:

Entirely sensible when running a border to be able to quickly differentiate identification paperwork, divergence is good, assists in ID fraud prevention too as it is another form that has to be counterfeited. As it stands now crack the common EU passport and you have effectively compromised the ID system of the whole of Europe - well worth the effort, though whether than is so important as it was with biometrics / cross referencing with data on computer systems at customs is arguable..

I agree that it's good to have a different colour for practical reasons.

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13 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

But the point, as made above, is that neither are we. It is being dictated to us by EU rules.

I would have thought that on a project with so much inherent risk as this, the incumbent supplier, with 8 years fault free service, would probably be worth a small premium over an untested overseas supplier.

Tell that to KFC.

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