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swiss_democracy_for_all

Who was it hoping to get a cheap diesel car after Dieselgate?

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Posted (edited)

It's a bit like a scrappage scheme.  In fact that might be the intention behind it all.  It wouldn't be a complete surprise if those giant storage car parks spontaneously combusted destroying all those cars but they'll be insured.  I expect then they'll have to print up the money to give to the insurers.

Dual purpose it keeps cars off the market supporting car prices and occupies land so helps a bit to support land prices.

Don't ever expect the little people to benefit from such things - they just have to cough up for them and think themselves lucky to do so.

Edited by twocents

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11 minutes ago, swissy_fit said:

Not sure how to link to the video but it's on the So-Called BBC site - VW have bought back 350,000 vehicles in the US at a cost of >5bn quid and they're just sitting around doing nothing in giant carparks.

Something is wrong with capitalism when such environmental profligacy is allowed. It reminds me of the houses in Ireland being bulldozed after the over-building period.

 

Complete waste of resources , not one thing wrong with any of those cars 

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Just now, One percent said:

This is probably a very stupid question but can’t they just replace the Diesel engine with a petrol one?  

Yes they can but I would guess that would cost £5k including the fuel system.  So they wouldn't see it back.

If they can switch them to RHD which should be a lot cheaper I'm in.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, swissy_fit said:

Not sure how to link to the video but it's on the So-Called BBC site - VW have bought back 350,000 vehicles in the US at a cost of >5bn quid and they're just sitting around doing nothing in giant carparks.

Something is wrong with capitalism when such environmental profligacy is allowed. It reminds me of the houses in Ireland being bulldozed after the over-building period.

 

The pariah status of diesel is a farce

Especially when gas cookers are such a good source of NOx

http://oem.bmj.com/content/oemed/58/8/511.full.pdf

Quote

Substantial concentrations of NOX were generated during cooking on gas; four rings for 15 minutes produced 5 minute peaks of about 1000 ppb nitrogen dioxide and about 2000 ppb nitric oxide.

Conclusions —Cooking in a poorly ventilated kitchen may give rise to potentially toxic concentrations of numbers of particles. Very high concentrations of oxides of nitrogen may also be generated by gas cooking, and with no extraction and poor ventilation, may reach concentrations at which adverse health effects may be expected. Although respiratory effects of exposure to NOx might be anticipated, recent epidemiology suggests that cardiac effects cannot be excluded, and further investigation of this is desirable.

 

12 minutes ago, One percent said:

This is probably a very stupid question but can’t they just replace the Diesel engine with a petrol one?  

It would be better to chuck petrol and keep diesel

I've said on another thread that my choice would be electric in cities, diesel elsewhere, and petrol nowhere

Edited by Hopeful

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7 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

The pariah status of diesel is a farce

Especially when gas cookers are such a good source of NOx

http://oem.bmj.com/content/oemed/58/8/511.full.pdf

 

It would be better to chuck petrol and keep diesel

I've said on another thread that my choice would be electric in cities, diesel elsewhere, and petrol nowhere

I like my 2l petrol engine. :)

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13 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

The pariah status of diesel is a farce

Especially when gas cookers are such a good source of NOx

http://oem.bmj.com/content/oemed/58/8/511.full.pdf

 

It would be better to chuck petrol and keep diesel

I've said on another thread that my choice would be electric in cities, diesel elsewhere, and petrol nowhere

As someone who has to walk around in the Parisian region inhaling diesel fumes I'm not a fan. For me, they're good on uncrowded motorways and A roads only, as any stop/start takes away their fuel economy, or that was my experience when I had one.

So while I think the cars that have been built should definitely be used until the end of their useful lives and not left to rot >:(, I'm not going to mourn the end of diesel.

 

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, swissy_fit said:

As someone who has to walk around in the Parisian region inhaling diesel fumes I'm not a fan. For me, they're good on uncrowded motorways and A roads only, as any stop/start takes away their fuel economy, or that was my experience when I had one.

So while I think the cars that have been built should definitely be used until the end of their useful lives and not left to rot >:(, I'm not going to mourn the end of diesel.

 

As I said, electric in cities, diesel elsewhere, petrol nowhere.

Electric is environmentally good if soucred from renewables, diesel is best environmentally otherwise.

Do you cook by gas ?

Edited by Hopeful

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18 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

As I said, electric in cities, diesel elsewhere, petrol nowhere.

Electric is environmentally good if soucred from renewables, diesel is best environmentally otherwise.

Do you cook by gas ?

The only downside of petrol over diesel is the CO2 emissions. All the other emissions are higher with diesel. 

I'm looking for a nice V8 petrol. I'm a good citizen me. 

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Posted (edited)

Not so long ago they were also saying that 2018 would be the year when the personal car lease plans of many UK  cars would expire and they would flood the market and prices would fall - not much evidence of that so far.

They're probably all hidden away in giant car parks around the UK somewhere or exported overseas as overseas "aid/charity" etc.

Edited by twocents

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, whitevanman said:

The only downside of petrol over diesel is the CO2 emissions. All the other emissions are higher with diesel. 

I'm looking for a nice V8 petrol. I'm a good citizen me. 

The NOX don't matter, CO2 emissions are more important.

It is simply short-term vs long term effects.

Short-term NOX effects on humans can be minimised by excluding diesel from cities and towns and promoting electric where most people live.

Long-term effects on CO2 can be minimised by using diesel rather than petrol.

So, outside cities, where the population density is far less, use diesels.

I really would be more worried about gas cooking as an invididual wanting to minimse my exposure. Just wait, it'll be a 'scare'

They want to drive the take up of electric and are portraying diesel as a bogeyman to achieve it. Wrong, Wrong, Wrong way to do it.

Toyota won't be selling any diesel engined cars in Europe after the end of this year. Environmental madness IMO.

Edited by Hopeful

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I would love to find a way of importing those 350K diesel VWs to fellow RHD Cambodia.

Deisel, whilst shit quality here, is just $0.67/L, whereas the heavily used petrol is $1.00...

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17 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

The NOX don't matter, CO2 emissions are more important.

It is simply short-term vs long term effects.

Short-term NOX effects on humans can be minimised by excluding diesel from cities and towns and promoting electric where most people live.

Long-term effects on CO2 can be minimised by using diesel rather than petrol.

So, outside cities, where the population density is far less, use diesels.

I really would be more worried about gas cooking as an invididual wanting to minimse my exposure. Just wait, it'll be a 'scare'

They want to drive the take up of electric and are portraying diesel as a bogeyman to achieve it. Wrong, Wrong, Wrong way to do it.

Toyota won't be selling any diesel engined cars in Europe after the end of this year. Environmental madness IMO.

Well, it depends if you think CO2 is a problem. It is, after all, the ideal product of combustion. Particulates and NOX are real problems at a local level, both rural and urban as well as for vehicle passengers and drivers. 

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16 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

Toyota won't be selling any diesel engined cars in Europe after the end of this year. Environmental madness IMO.

Not really madness IF there is a combined massive push to renewables and the battery tech breakthroughs arrive.  And Toyota are big in petrol hybrids so not so dumb for them. Toshiba have a fancy battery due in 2019. 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, swissy_fit said:

Not really madness IF there is a combined massive push to renewables and the battery tech breakthroughs arrive.  And Toyota are big in petrol hybrids so not so dumb for them. Toshiba have a fancy battery due in 2019. 

I agree, it's not madness to promote electric (if electric has a good renewable component). Battery tech is not environmentally benign, however.

It is madness to demonise diesel above petrol however, and especially, when there are promising techs in development that could make diesel NOX hazards immaterial, such as ACCT http://www.lboro.ac.uk/enterprise/enterprise-awards/one-to-watch/acct/

NOX is currently a focus because people live in cities and all people generally care about is themsleves NOW, and their local environment,

The global environment is more important and there, CO2 trumps worries about NOX.

So, by all means push for electric, but don't make diesel the bogeyman

 

Edited by Hopeful

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5 minutes ago, swissy_fit said:

Not really madness IF there is a combined massive push to renewables and the battery tech breakthroughs arrive.  And Toyota are big in petrol hybrids so not so dumb for them. Toshiba have a fancy battery due in 2019. 

Toyota are all over the place, pinned significant investment on hydrogen/fuel cells and really have not been consistent at all and dead wrong in the direction of the market. It was fairly obvious at a technical level the electric was the way to go years ago. I still think hybrids are a horrible compromise.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, whitevanman said:

Well, it depends if you think CO2 is a problem. It is, after all, the ideal product of combustion. Particulates and NOX are real problems at a local level, both rural and urban as well as for vehicle passengers and drivers. 

Well, I happen to think CO2 is a problem from the rapid reorganisations and upcoupling of food chains that I see in the world's biology.

here's a 'popular' article about Loughborough's ACCT tech that I linked above, which seems to have the potential to remove worries about NOX  https://www.carthrottle.com/post/a-simple-new-exhaust-technology-could-save-the-diesel-engine/

Edited by Hopeful

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, One percent said:

It’s bonkers imho to worry about cars when there is ever increasing airplane usage

Actually, it just takes 16 of the world's largest 'container' ships to equal the production of NOX from all cars combined, with an estimated annual number of 60,000 deaths globally (or 27,000 in Europe)

Mortality from Ship Emissions, a global assessment

Quote

Epidemiological studies consistently link ambient concentrations of particulate matter (PM) to negative health impacts, including asthma, heart attacks, hospital admissions, and premature mortality. We model ambient PM concentrations from oceangoing ships using two geospatial emissions inventories and two global aerosol models. We estimate global and regional mortalities by applying ambient PM increases due to ships to cardiopulmonary and lung cancer concentration-risk functions and population models. Our results indicate that shipping-related PM emissions are responsible for approximately 60,000 cardiopulmonary and lung cancer deaths annually, with most deaths occurring near coastlines in Europe, East Asia, and South Asia. Under current regulation and with the expected growth in shipping activity, we estimate that annual mortalities could increase by 40% by 2012.

A striking figure when you then consider that shipping produces fewer emissions per tonne of freight moved than road or rail.

It's bonkers to worry about cars.

Your gas cooker is your personal threat

Edited by Hopeful

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