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man o' the year

Levels of Wealth/Affluence

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I have often wondered and read around attempts to categorise different levels of affluence. At the very basic level having enough to survive independently would seem to be a reasonable step. However even this with the welfare state means that not only is this no longer possible for some in UK society but also is no longer even an aspiration for them.

Is it just middle class of me to put something as owning your own house as another level. Living without having to work as another. 

What are others feelings about criteria and steps which classifies anyone as wealthy? I am not really interested in choosing to live as a hippy without money (Mark Boyle style) although I am sure that is a valid life style in itself under the right circumstances. 

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to be pedantic im working class dead end job etc ,however i did buy a 50k terrace just over 5 years ago.now someone who could be on 75k a year in london and still not be able to buy but would be filthy rich up here so i think it needs to be taken context,or just go to the old tried and tested desposable income ?

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I think with things like "affluence" it depends upon what the family spends. To most people an income of £100k a year is a fortune. However I bet there are plenty people on that income that struggle....

What's £100k a year after tax? About £70k? A mortgage on a £500k house could be £15k a year, two kids at private school could be £30k a year, house bills and council tax could be £5k a year, PCP/ insurance for a couple of cheapish BMWs could be £10k a year, family holidays £10k a year, food and socialising £10k a year, clothes £5k a year, house decoration/ new kitchens £5k a year. 

Net income £70k, net expenditure £90k.... I'd suggest the expenditures above wouldn't really be crazy for a London family....

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Not that these classes exist in their original form but I always thought about it thusly:

Working class = wage slave (the vast vast majority of us)

Middle class = can afford to not work for a while or retire early.

Upper class = can live off their wealth. No need to work 

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but theres a lot who would take ubrage if you pointed out they were just meer working class,no doubt that female copper who got topped by her husband (also a copper) the other month would have concidered herself middle class has she polished her 5k kitchen island.

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11 minutes ago, Thombleached said:

Not that these classes exist in their original form but I always thought about it thusly:

Working class = wage slave (the vast vast majority of us)

Middle class = can afford to not work for a while or retire early.

Upper class = can live off their wealth. No need to work 

Yeah I think there's lots of working class who mistakingly think they're middle class because they got a slightly better job. But they're still a wage/debt slave.

And I think the things that enabled some working class to become middle class, i.e. early retirements, multiple houses, big pensions, will be denied to this generation.

I also think there's a phenomenon where higher earners hang around with other higher earners and they all try and keep up with each other...cars/houses/holidays/restaurants, so the people earning £30K a year feel skint and the people earning £70K a year also feel skint. 

Edited by JoeDavola

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5 minutes ago, Great Guy said:

I think with things like "affluence" it depends upon what the family spends. To most people an income of £100k a year is a fortune. However I bet there are plenty people on that income that struggle....

What's £100k a year after tax? About £70k? A mortgage on a £500k house could be £15k a year, two kids at private school could be £30k a year, house bills and council tax could be £5k a year, PCP/ insurance for a couple of cheapish BMWs could be £10k a year, family holidays £10k a year, food and socialising £10k a year, clothes £5k a year, house decoration/ new kitchens £5k a year. 

Net income £70k, net expenditure £90k.... I'd suggest the expenditures above wouldn't really be crazy for a London family....

I think your numbers are off if you are talking London.

On £100k, take home pay would be £65k, 5% pension contribution so £60k left.

You would need to be talking at least £750k for a house. With a £650k mortgage that will be £36k per annum.

Council tax and utilities £6k. Maintenance £5k. Food etc £12k. 

That just leaves £1k for clothes, transport, holidays, birthdays etc.

You wife will need a part time bar job just to make ends meet.

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2 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

I think your numbers are off if you are talking London.

On £100k, take home pay would be £65k, 5% pension contribution so £60k left.

You would need to be talking at least £750k for a house. With a £650k mortgage that will be £36k per annum.

Council tax and utilities £6k. Maintenance £5k. Food etc £12k. 

That just leaves £1k for clothes, transport, holidays, birthdays etc.

You wife will need a part time bar job just to make ends meet.

The point being that it doesn’t work.

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there could well be more middleclass people in the north than london then,unless those who own in the center of london sell and morph into land owning gentry up here.they could sell and buy a smallholding and live like kings..

19 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

Correct. Much better off on benefits.

the irony being that they are still building up a discount every year on their council house yet get there rent paid isnt lost on me.lucky bstards.

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23 minutes ago, stokiescum said:

there could well be more middleclass people in the north than london then,unless those who own in the center of london sell and morph into land owning gentry up here.they could sell and buy a smallholding and live like kings..

Yes,  in London on £100k you are far wealthier..  but it's defered until you pay off your mortgage.

At that point you are 50-55 years old and sat on £750k of housing asset.  You could probably retire early quite comfortably on that which you probably couldn't do as a "typical northerner".

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1 hour ago, Cunning Plan said:

I think your numbers are off if you are talking London.

On £100k, take home pay would be £65k, 5% pension contribution so £60k left.

You would need to be talking at least £750k for a house. With a £650k mortgage that will be £36k per annum.

Council tax and utilities £6k. Maintenance £5k. Food etc £12k. 

That just leaves £1k for clothes, transport, holidays, birthdays etc.

You wife will need a part time bar job just to make ends meet.

Agreed.

Me and Mrs B's gross earnings are approx 100k. Putting aside investment income by living reasonable frugally we manage to save approx 1000 a month

Main outgoings per month are:

Rent 1350

Childcare 740 (plus 480 from CCV)

Food & Groceries 450-500

Bills (of which Council tax is the MOFO) 450

Pensions 1000

 

 

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1 hour ago, Libspero said:

Yes,  in London on £100k you are far wealthier..  but it's defered until you pay off your mortgage.

At that point you are 50-55 years old and sat on £750k of housing asset.  You could probably retire early quite comfortably on that which you probably couldn't do as a "typical northerner".

Maybe in the past. But now, you will be 35 when you buy a house on a 30 year mortgage. Paid off and burned out by 65.

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1 hour ago, Kurt Barlow said:

Agreed.

Me and Mrs B's gross earnings are approx 100k. Putting aside investment income by living reasonable frugally we manage to save approx 1000 a month

Main outgoings per month are:

Rent 1350

Childcare 740 (plus 480 from CCV)

Food & Groceries 450-500

Bills (of which Council tax is the MOFO) 450

Pensions 1000

 

 

I make a little bit more than that but rent, utilities and state school fees take the first £58k. Thankfully I am a bit clever with tax or i would only have about £10k left to cover everything else. System is fecked.

I am impressed with your frugality. Is your rent actually below lha rates?

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jesus at what some of you guys earn,mind that bird i was with for 4 months over xmas earnt 47k plus maintanence pity there wasnt much of a spark,but its an eyeopener now im sluming it with the 16 hours a week brigade lol.

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2 minutes ago, stokiescum said:

jesus at what some of you guys earn,mind that bird i was with for 4 months over xmas earnt 47k plus maintanence pity there wasnt much of a spark,but its an eyeopener now im sluming it with the 16 hours a week brigade lol.

Yep. But I still have less disposable income than my neighbour in their council house.

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3 minutes ago, stokiescum said:

jesus at what some of you guys earn,mind that bird i was with for 4 months over xmas earnt 47k plus maintanence pity there wasnt much of a spark,but its an eyeopener now im sluming it with the 16 hours a week brigade lol.

Same here stokie re earnings :o. The most income I’ve ever had per year for the last 25 years was £16k when my kids were growing up due to top ups because pay was crap. It’s less now!

Still, because I was born at the right time I own a modest home, have a reserve fund, I’m frugal, I can eat well, I’m always warm in my home, I’m fit and can walk miles and have a modest camper van to get out and about.

Wealth isn’t about how much money you have IMO. It’s good to have the basics like shelter, decent food and warmth and more money is welcome to most folks but inherently abundant money will not necessarily create a happy life.

 

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2 minutes ago, man o' the year said:

I am shocked at the amount of tax you guys are paying. I knew the percentages but seeing it in £ really brings it home.

Someone has to. Those benefits don't grow on trees.

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18 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

Yep. But I still have less disposable income than my neighbour in their council house.

Council houses are bargains here in Belfast if your ego lets you live in one, and they're built to better standards than non council houses.

Like this:

https://www.propertynews.com/property-for-sale/belfast/end+terrace-type/clarawood+park/UPS11217-6-10091624

....ok it's not a mansion, but you'd be mortgage free and have a council tax (we call them rates) bill of a mere £50 a month. And all for £95K.

Edited by JoeDavola

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11 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

Yep. But I still have less disposable income than my neighbour in their council house.

You’re earning over 100k and envious of council house inhabitants? Maybe it’s different in your neck of the woods but my income is around £12k and I most definitely do not envy council house inhabitants around here!

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1 minute ago, Economic Exile said:

You’re earning over 100k and envious of council house inhabitants? Maybe it’s different in your neck of the woods but my income is around £12k and I most definitely do not envy council house inhabitants around here!

Yep. There is a lot of hours and stress involved in making that. 

The council house two doors down would do me very nicely.

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8 minutes ago, Cunning Plan said:

Yep. There is a lot of hours and stress involved in making that. 

The council house two doors down would do me very nicely.

Give it all up then and apply for benefits. Why haven’t you done that if life is better on benefits?

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