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gibbon

Teachers May Strike. Want More Money.

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Just seen the news that teachers have backed ballots to strike nationally if they don't get substantial pay increases. According to the government teacher pay is £37,400 on average. I thought when you're on to a good thing you shouldn't rock the boat? I reckon 80% of teachers aren't worth anywhere near that and would struggle to earn even £20k in the real world.

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1 minute ago, gibbon said:

Just seen the news that teachers have backed ballots to strike nationally if they don't get substantial pay increases. According to the government teacher pay is £37,400 on average. I thought when you're on to a good thing you shouldn't rock the boat? I reckon 80% of teachers aren't worth anywhere near that and would struggle to earn even £20k in the real world.

MPs are on 76 plus expenses. Are they worth more than twice what they say teachers get (they don’t get that as it includes senior managers)

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At least the kids will be spared a bit of brainwashing in their snowflake awareness workshop. If they manage to find a book whilst their brainwashers strike, their levels of knowledge would see a net increase compared with if the strike had not taken place.

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Just now, One percent said:

MPs are on 76 plus expenses. Are they worth more than twice what they say teachers get (they don’t get that as it includes senior managers)

No they aren't either. What's your point?

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One thing that I can now see as I look back at my school days through the eyes of an adult is that teaching attracted a fair number of either hopeless and/or really nasty people, who it was evidently impossible to get rid of so they did their 30/40 years and got their pensions.

Having said that, I earn about the same as that average teacher pay, and I'd much rather earn it sitting doing my computer-y stuff by myself listening to music with nobody bothering me, than having to teach a room full of kids, a subset of whom will be wee bastards. Even with all the holidays that they get!

Good teachers are worth their weight in gold; it's just a case of figuring out how to reward the good and get rid of the bad.

If I were a qualified teacher I'd go into tutoring, either one to one or small classes - it seems the lower middle classes upwards are throwing money at tutors these days.

Edited by JoeDavola

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Both my kids have passed through the English comprehensive school system, and with a few notable exceptions, I would not pay the majority of the teachers in washers.

Parents evening routinely left me shaking my head in abject dismay, the teachers did not appear the know the kids, gave me the impression that they probably know the subject but have no idea how to inspire teenagers and just spouted platitudes....

God knows how they would cope with a commercial performance mangement system.

Perhaps the issue is that we get the teachers that we deserve. If as a society don't respect them (and generally I don't) then we can't expect our brightest and best to kids to train to to be a teacher.

I work in  Engineering (with some really bright and driven people) and I don't think I know anybody who would be prepared to work for the cash we pay teachers.

P

 

 

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22 minutes ago, gibbon said:

No they aren't either. What's your point?

IMO the point is that MP’s live in a gilded world where they are safe and sound in a secure world but they expect the masses to compete for the scraps!

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11 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

One thing that I can now see as I look back at my school days through the eyes of an adult is that teaching attracted a fair number of either hopeless and/or really nasty people, who it was evidently impossible to get rid of so they did their 30/40 years and got their pensions.

Having said that, I earn about the same as that average teacher pay, and I'd much rather earn it sitting doing my computer-y stuff by myself listening to music with nobody bothering me, than having to teach a room full of kids, a subset of whom will be wee bastards. Even with all the holidays that they get!

Good teachers are worth their weight in gold; it's just a case of figuring out how to reward the good and get rid of the bad.

If I were a qualified teacher I'd go into tutoring, either one to one or small classes - it seems the lower middle classes upwards are throwing money at tutors these days.

Is interesting being able to look back now and see just how shit most of my teachers were. Usual routine at secondary was 10 minutes at the start having some work set, then depending on the teacher either total silence or the class being able chat away/run a muck while they obviously marked homework/admin and ignored the children they were meant to be teaching in-front of them. There was no going round the class helping struggling kids or interaction at all. They couldn't give a fuck, just wanted to make sure all their own work was done so they could fuck off at 3.30pm and get down the pub or have no work to do after hours. Tossers.

But you right, I wouldn't do it, teaching a bunch of feral kids on a sink estate who shouldn't even be in school can't be much fun.

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The trouble is we've lost the normal 'work-reward' equation in the UK. 

No-one knows how much work is worth

People 'earn' loads on welfare while others lose their homes, celebrities earn £30k for getting out of bed, minimum wage full time is £18k or so, but a minimum wage person might be taxed to nothing or get loads of handouts, if you've got a house in London you're a gazillionaire, if not you're a pauper, prices are going up if you want to be fancy, but costs are going down if you're buying cheap bread.

No-one knows how much work is worth, but everyone is sure they're worth more.  

 

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7 minutes ago, Economic Exile said:

IMO the point is that MP’s live in a gilded world where they are safe and sound in a secure world but they expect the masses to compete for the scraps!

£37k isn't scraps nor is the median teacher salary of £27k. Majority of teachers are overpaid as are MPs. Just because MPs are overpaid doesn't mean it's ok that teachers are. If they don't like their salary they should quit and get the big bucks they think they are worth else where.

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45 minutes ago, JoeDavola said:

One thing that I can now see as I look back at my school days through the eyes of an adult is that teaching attracted a fair number of either hopeless and/or really nasty people, who it was evidently impossible to get rid of so they did their 30/40 years and got their pensions.

Having said that, I earn about the same as that average teacher pay, and I'd much rather earn it sitting doing my computer-y stuff by myself listening to music with nobody bothering me, than having to teach a room full of kids, a subset of whom will be wee bastards. Even with all the holidays that they get!

Good teachers are worth their weight in gold; it's just a case of figuring out how to reward the good and get rid of the bad.

If I were a qualified teacher I'd go into tutoring, either one to one or small classes - it seems the lower middle classes upwards are throwing money at tutors these days.

look towards scandinavia,teachers are held in total awe higher than co,s of big firms they are the best of the best degree wize,its treated like a vocation basicly.i get the impresion its social status not wages that draws them

20 minutes ago, gibbon said:

£37k isn't scraps nor is the median teacher salary of £27k. Majority of teachers are overpaid as are MPs. Just because MPs are overpaid doesn't mean it's ok that teachers are. If they don't like their salary they should quit and get the big bucks they think they are worth else where.

both true facts,but whats that after tax ,ni and degree deductions ?

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7 minutes ago, dgul said:

The trouble is we've lost the normal 'work-reward' equation in the UK. 

No-one knows how much work is worth

People 'earn' loads on welfare while others lose their homes, celebrities earn £30k for getting out of bed, minimum wage full time is £18k or so, but a minimum wage person might be taxed to nothing or get loads of handouts, if you've got a house in London you're a gazillionaire, if not you're a pauper, prices are going up if you want to be fancy, but costs are going down if you're buying cheap bread.

No-one knows how much work is worth, but everyone is sure they're worth more.  

 

You're only worth what someones willing to pay. Government should set the amount they pay teachers in accordance with how many they need to recruit. If the teachers aren't happy with this amount they should fuck off and take their labour elsewhere instead of trying to bend the government (and taxpayer) over a barrel. They'll be shocked at how little the private sector thinks they're worth though.

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9 minutes ago, stokiescum said:

look towards scandinavia,teachers are held in total awe higher than co,s of big firms they are the best of the best degree wize,its treated like a vocation basicly.i get the impresion its social status not wages that draws them

We like to kick aspiration in this country, part of that is knocking education so that nobody respects it, so kids don't respect school, teachers aren't respected etc.

I reckon the true vocational teachers would settle for the pay they have and rather than have a pay rise, would be happy to be given more resources to teach (not more teaching assistants), have more independence, and have less red tape. Win Win all around.

Make  the job unpleasant and people will focus much more on their salary.

I'm not talking about the people who entered teaching because they didn't know what to do with their degree

 

 

Edited by Hopeful

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6 minutes ago, gibbon said:

£37k isn't scraps nor is the median teacher salary of £27k. Majority of teachers are overpaid as are MPs. Just because MPs are overpaid doesn't mean it's ok that teachers are. If they don't like their salary they should quit and get the big bucks they think they are worth else where.

And else where would be would where? Personally I could have spent a year getting a teaching certificate but I know I couldn’t hack the national curriculum, tick boxing, getting the school uprated in national statistics etc.

I’m still puzzled about where I can earn a decent living. I’m nothing special, just ordinary. I have many talents in life IMO but of course nothing that pays much. That’s only for a small percentage of the population.

Politicians, IMO, will increasingly be getting the message that ordinary people will not accept returning to Victorian times where the plebs worked until they dropped!

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34 minutes ago, gibbon said:

You're only worth what someones willing to pay. Government should set the amount they pay teachers in accordance with how many they need to recruit. If the teachers aren't happy with this amount they should fuck off and take their labour elsewhere instead of trying to bend the government (and taxpayer) over a barrel. They'll be shocked at how little the private sector thinks they're worth though.

a girl i work with is going to be a georgraphy teacher because she is doing leasure and tourism degree.

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26 minutes ago, Economic Exile said:

And else where would be would where? Personally I could have spent a year getting a teaching certificate but I know I couldn’t hack the national curriculum, tick boxing, getting the school uprated in national statistics etc.

I’m still puzzled about where I can earn a decent living. I’m nothing special, just ordinary. I have many talents in life IMO but of course nothing that pays much. That’s only for a small percentage of the population.

Politicians, IMO, will increasingly be getting the message that ordinary people will not accept returning to Victorian times where the plebs worked until they dropped!

think out of the box,ive never had a hobby i couldnt make extra cash out of.i got into tarantulas i ended up selling them,i got into martial arts i ended up working the doors,i got into online gameing i ended up selling pixels ie game currency,metal detecting i got axcess to 100,000 acres of land and charged everyone a fiver each to come with me.i bought a house i got a lodger.

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8 minutes ago, Economic Exile said:

And else where would be would where? Personally I could have spent a year getting a teaching certificate but I know I couldn’t hack the national curriculum, tick boxing, getting the school uprated in national statistics etc.

I’m still puzzled about where I can earn a decent living. I’m nothing special, just ordinary. I have many talents in life IMO but of course nothing that pays much. That’s only for a small percentage of the population.

Politicians, IMO, will increasingly be getting the message that ordinary people will not accept returning to Victorian times where the plebs worked until they dropped!

That's what I'm getting at, seeing as most of them are completely skill-less there isn't anywhere else. But nobodies stopping them trying or retraining if they don't like what the government is offering. 

Have you considered self-employment? Tutoring? Hard to say as everyone's idea of a decent living is different right.

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very few people are skill less,its about realizing your skill and useing it.that skill might just be haveing 18 hours a day to do fk all.but 10 years ago i could have taught you how to farm pixels on world of warcraft ie game currency.true by the hour shit money but you can watch tv,drink beer and listen to music whilst doing it.but if your liveing free from the state it was close to 300 quid a week extra cash tax free with zero chance of geting caught....the marvels of paypal over western union.

27 minutes ago, blobloblob said:

NHS settlement was always going to let the genie out of the bottle. 

Expect more to follow - fire, police, diversity coordinators etc.

some got close to 25% allegadly,ie low paid nhs....hence we rapidly got 70p each 2 weeks ago ,thats my theory.

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10 minutes ago, stokiescum said:

think out of the box,ive never had a hobby i couldnt make extra cash out of.i got into tarantulas i ended up selling them,i got into martial arts i ended up working the doors,i got into online gameing i ended up selling pixels ie game currency,metal detecting i got axcess to 100,000 acres of land and charged everyone a fiver each to come with me.i bought a house i got a lodger.

Done all that. Worked in a job, sold my creative stuff online and local markets. Had a lodger. Sick of having to work my arse off to get nowhere so have given up now!

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25 minutes ago, Economic Exile said:

Done all that. Worked in a job, sold my creative stuff online and local markets. Had a lodger. Sick of having to work my arse off to get nowhere so have given up now!

stuff like crafts online can be copyed and undercut,the key is crafts seem to change ie whats in vogue.not that ive studyed crafts and facebook ive just seen friends try it.i never give up i actuly thrive on conflict sadly...but has long has your fed and watered and have a roof over your head it doesnt realy matter if your happy.

Edited by stokiescum

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8 hours ago, stokiescum said:

stuff like crafts online can be copyed and undercut,the key is crafts seem to change ie whats in vogue.not that ive studyed crafts and facebook ive just seen friends try it.i never give up i actuly thrive on conflict sadly...but has long has your fed and watered and have a roof over your head it doesnt realy matter if your happy.

Couldn't agree more, I shut my last business down as it was making me miserable/stressed. See it as a good learning lesson though in never working for the general public. Haven't got a pot to piss in atm while I build my next thing, but fucking hell am I 10x happier. 

Maybe instead of deciding to take responsibility for my own life and making the changes I needed to make I should of done what teachers are doing, whine about it, play the victim and throw my toys out the pram if I don't get what I want.

Edited by gibbon

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9 hours ago, gibbon said:

Is interesting being able to look back now and see just how shit most of my teachers were. Usual routine at secondary was 10 minutes at the start having some work set, then depending on the teacher either total silence or the class being able chat away/run a muck while they obviously marked homework/admin and ignored the children they were meant to be teaching in-front of them. There was no going round the class helping struggling kids or interaction at all. They couldn't give a fuck, just wanted to make sure all their own work was done so they could fuck off at 3.30pm and get down the pub or have no work to do after hours. Tossers.

But you right, I wouldn't do it, teaching a bunch of feral kids on a sink estate who shouldn't even be in school can't be much fun.

Ive a good memory. I went to the only school in the area - there was no choice, you went to this one or never went to school - which a good 10% didnt.

Of my teachers about a third ought to be have sacked on the spot. Another third needed retraining andor slapped around the head. Last third was competent.

Problem is they were all paid same and had tge dumb age time served pay progression.

The thing that would have helped a lot of kids would be removing the serial disruptive ones from classes.

To a certain extent streaming does that. But youve still the issue of quiet and slow being lumped with scum.

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Teachers should be paid well for teaching, and they are not allowed to do it sometimes. Not one of my teachers was a governement pawn, but that was sometime ago.

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13 minutes ago, gibbon said:

Couldn't agree more, I shut my last business down as it was making me miserable/stressed. See it as a good learning lesson though in never working for the general public. Haven't got a pot to piss in atm while I build my next thing, but fucking hell am I 10x happier. 

Maybe instead of deciding to take responsibility for my own life and making the changes I needed to make I should of done what teachers are doing, whine about it, play the victim and throw my toys out the pram if I don't get what I want.

I think people are stopping work at a rapid rate.

Combination of uk dumb needs based non cintrib system, tax credits and the genersl level of taxes - UK income are one of tge worlds hughest - all to pay fir Shazzas 16h on tesco tills and 4 brown babies.

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