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Frank Hovis

Can't afford to retire - we will punish you

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There has long been an exemption from paying NI for people still working past state retirement age (soon to be 67).

This to most people seems perfectly reasonable as they are only likely to still be working at that age because they are skint and also they are unlikely to be earning much if anything above minimum wage.

Now the usual suspects are trying to pull this exemption "to avert social care disaster"; like anyone believes that it will be ring fenced for social care in the first place.

 

  • More than a million older workers may have to start paying National Insurance
  • Those still working beyond the state pension age are exempt from paying levy 
  • Sir Andrew Dilnot told MPs older workers could pay more to plug financial hole

Former Tory chancellor Kenneth Clarke, twat, also called last month for pensioners to start paying national insurance, saying: ‘You get your state pension on top of your pay, so the least you can do is pay the same tax on your salary as your colleagues do.’ 

Mr Clarke, twat, suggested better off pensioners should also lose perks like the winter fuel allowance and free bus passes. 

In a separate intervention, Kent County Council urged ministers to consider a £30-a-month tax on all workers to help repair a care funding system it described as ‘broken’. 

 

Maybe, just maybe, if there wasn't the enormous and obscene wastes of taxpayers' money rubbed in our faces on a daily basis we would have sympathy for done tax rises. But even then: not this one.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5571445/Older-workers-pay-National-Insurance-avert-social-care-disaster.html

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I agree with the OAPS paying NI for work.

Its a levy on working. OAPs should pay it. They will be getting the state pension.

Some OAPs will be skint. Some are working because they enjoy it.

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38 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

There has long been an exemption from paying NI for people still working past state retirement age (soon to be 67).

This to most people seems perfectly reasonable as they are only likely to still be working at that age because they are skint and also they are unlikely to be earning much if anything above minimum wage.

Now the usual suspects are trying to pull this exemption "to avert social care disaster"; like anyone believes that it will be ring fenced for social care in the first place.

 

  • More than a million older workers may have to start paying National Insurance
  • Those still working beyond the state pension age are exempt from paying levy 
  • Sir Andrew Dilnot told MPs older workers could pay more to plug financial hole

Former Tory chancellor Kenneth Clarke, twat, also called last month for pensioners to start paying national insurance, saying: ‘You get your state pension on top of your pay, so the least you can do is pay the same tax on your salary as your colleagues do.’ 

Mr Clarke, twat, suggested better off pensioners should also lose perks like the winter fuel allowance and free bus passes. 

In a separate intervention, Kent County Council urged ministers to consider a £30-a-month tax on all workers to help repair a care funding system it described as ‘broken’. 

 

Maybe, just maybe, if there wasn't the enormous and obscene wastes of taxpayers' money rubbed in our faces on a daily basis we would have sympathy for done tax rises. But even then: not this one.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5571445/Older-workers-pay-National-Insurance-avert-social-care-disaster.html

They will be levying on private pensions next.  Though there of course you would already have paid NI on your money when you paid in so it would essentially be a form of double taxation. Needless to say when the old fuckers simply jack in work then they will start complaining about "skills shortages".

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19 minutes ago, spygirl said:

I agree with the OAPS paying NI for work.

Its a levy on working. OAPs should pay it. They will be getting the state pension.

Some OAPs will be skint. Some are working because they enjoy it.

Plus any OAP today has had a much better environment to have made money by now than the rest of us. More secure employment, low house prices, rising stock markets etc. Fuck em

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Posted (edited)

I have very little sympathy for pensioners,I hate it when they talk about free bus passes etc as if its their god given right to have them,they are not free as most of us have to pay more in fares or taxes to subsidise them.

Where I work there was a default retirement age of 65 up until a few years ago,now if have to work with some of the greediest old fuckers imaginable who can't do their jobs properly any longer,they try to make out they are skint despite receiving a decent wage plus overtime,occupational pension and state pension.

Edited by M S E Refugee

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7 minutes ago, BBH said:

Plus any OAP today has had a much better environment to have made money by now than the rest of us. More secure employment, low house prices, rising stock markets etc. Fuck em

 

Today's maybe, but not tomorrow's, and imminently tomorrow's too

 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, M S E Refugee said:

I have very little sympathy for pensioners,I hate it when they talk about free bus passes etc as if its their god given right to have them,they are not free as most of us have to pay more in fares or taxes to subsidise them.

Where I work there was a default retirement age of 65 up until a few years ago,now if have to work with some of the greediest old fuckers imaginable who can't do there jobs properly any longer,they try to make out they are skint despite receiving a decent wage plus overtime,occupational pension and state pension.

Agree 100% with that. Boils my piss.

However, having earned didly squat over my working life while being taxed to the hilt to pay for the feckless, I was looking forward to a relaxation of being arse-raped in retirement. Like everything however, it seems I will have again been born on the wrong day and will continue to be arse-raped to pay for the feckless.

The people who make these laws are of course immune to their effects. Ken Clarke should have retired ages ago. Another of those taking an unecessary salary in 'retirement'. I'd have more sympathy if he wanted to be a vanity MP if he now waived his salary.

Edited by Hopeful

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

 

Today's maybe, but not tomorrow's, and imminently tomorrow's too

 

No, but things will be far worse by then anyway. So I'm not in favour of subsidising today's OAPs at the expense of everyone else. As mentioned, they've had a pretty good run at it as a generation

Edited by BBH

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Just now, BBH said:

No, but things will be far worse by then anyway. So I'm not in favour of subsidising today's OAPs at the expense of everyone else. 

But once brought it, it will only get worse

"Be careful what you wish for"

get rid of the new and unecessary benefits first.

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It is an unnecessary benefit.

If you delay it by say 5 years it just helps out today's OAPs and has an adverse impact on everyone else. I don't think it speeds up the rate at which they'll fuck over tomorrow's OAPs, that will happen anyway

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14 minutes ago, BBH said:

It is an unnecessary benefit.

If you delay it by say 5 years it just helps out today's OAPs and has an adverse impact on everyone else. I don't think it speeds up the rate at which they'll fuck over tomorrow's OAPs, that will happen anyway

Maybe

But today's OAPs are a rapidly ending bubble

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

Maybe

But today's OAPs are a rapidly ending bubble

Already ended I think with regard to occupational pensions.

The simple fact is that the raising of the state pension age means older workers will pay NI longer and get their pensions later anyway

Most working pensioners are in part time employment  anyway so I expect many would  simply adjust their hours to drop below the NI limit

As has already been said it is just another way of taxing those who work to prop up those who don't or who rely on benefits to make up part time earnings  and there are plenty in the latter camp under 65.

Edited by Virgil Caine

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Virgil Caine said:

Already ended I think with regard to occupational pensions.

The simple fact is that the raising of the state pension age means older workers will pay NI longer and get their pensions later anyway

Most working pensioners work part time anyway so I expect they will simply adjust their earning to drop below the NI limit

Yes, I am glad I have never expected the state to provide anything for me outside the NHS

Anything I get is a bonus

I am rather annoyed that it has taken so much from me to provide for everyone else, that it has been made unecessarily harder to ensure I can provide for myself, and that now includes what I might expect to get from the NHS.

Edited by Hopeful

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How will they differentiate between income from employment, and private pension income? I suspect that they won't. They don't currently for income tax. 

NI is a defacto income tax. So this is a defacto increase in income tax on pensioners. Another reason not to bother making your own provision within the pension system.

 

 

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I think I'm broadly in favour..   for two reasons.

1 ) It seems fair that if older people wish to continue working they pay the same taxes as someone younger. If anything you want to encourage older people out of jobs to free up space for youngsters..  not the other way around.

2 ) I'm not convinced it is only people who can't afford it who keep on working.  There isn't technically a "retirement age" any more so companies can't easily get rid of people when they start to lose their marbles.   I can't see any reason why people on £150k should be able to keep on working on a tax break when they may not even be doing a very good job any more.  Better to keep a level playing field (at the the very least).   People who are genuinely struggling on low salaries will hardly be paying any tax anyway.

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They won't do it, because:

  • Once pensioners pay NI there's 'no reason' to not change to a flat rate income tax, but then,
  • Everyone will see just how high income tax is in the UK (40% base rate)
  • Just how relatively low higher rate income tax is in the UK (50% standard higher rate)
  • Then they'll go after the last 'special ones', the people that 'get paid' via dividends, and they definitely can't be dealing with that.

No.  They'll solve the problem by hurting pensioners in other ways.  Probably a special flat tax specifically for 'social care provision' -- that'll be '£30 per month', in exactly the same way NI rates are 5% employee, 0% employer.

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While I'm at it another thing that these greedy 60 somethings moan about is that they had to pay 15% interest rates on their homes that probably cost them less than £15000 to buy in the early 80s.

However bad you have had it,they say they have had it worse.

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3 hours ago, Frank Hovis said:

There has long been an exemption from paying NI for people still working past state retirement age (soon to be 67)

I had assumed this applied if you had not started drawing pension, if you are getting your pension than IMO its reasonable to pay full taxes including NI.

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, dgul said:

They won't do it, because:

  • Once pensioners pay NI there's 'no reason' to not change to a flat rate income tax, but then,
  • Everyone will see just how high income tax is in the UK (40% base rate)
  • Just how relatively low higher rate income tax is in the UK (50% standard higher rate)
  • Then they'll go after the last 'special ones', the people that 'get paid' via dividends, and they definitely can't be dealing with that.

No.  They'll solve the problem by hurting pensioners in other ways.  Probably a special flat tax specifically for 'social care provision' -- that'll be '£30 per month', in exactly the same way NI rates are 5% employee, 0% employer.

In which case, I'd like to opt out of subbing others anymore in return for a lethal injection on the day I'd need to go into a care home.

 

Edited by Hopeful

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2 minutes ago, goldbug9999 said:

I had assumed this applied if you had not started drawing pension, if you are getting your pension than IMO its reasonable to pay full taxes including NI.

National insurance was introduced after the war to pay for the welfare state. It was sold as a collective insurance for the health service and pensions. Think a privatised insurance company. 

It was never meant to be a tax.  Just because politicians have lied t9 us all yet again, does not give them carte blanch to take even more. 

Next they will be saying we are not paying enough for social care.  Oh wait...

meanwhile we can afford to give those of working age an easy 500 pounds A WEEK top up and to house immigrants in the Centre of the most expensive city in the U.K.  

Until they have sorted out these two problems, they can go fuck themselves. 

1 minute ago, Hopeful said:

In which case, I'd like to opt out of subbing others anymore in return for a lethal injection on the day I'd need to go into a care home.

 

My house will pay for mine, as will many other peoples.  I would like an opt out please. 

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5 minutes ago, goldbug9999 said:

I had assumed this applied if you had not started drawing pension, if you are getting your pension than IMO its reasonable to pay full taxes including NI.

The idea in setting it up this way was that you paid into the pot when you were working, and stopped paying in in retirement, because you were fully paid up. It's supposed to be an insurance scheme rather than a tax.

Of course there isn't an actual pot.

xD

(For pedants, I'm aware that they pretend that there's a pot, but pretending doesn't make it so).

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