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One percent

DO NOT under any circumstances protect yourself from the feral

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43639183

A 78-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of murder after a suspected burglar was stabbed to death.

The homeowner discovered two intruders in Further Green Road, Hither Green, south-east London, at about 00:45 BST.

One suspect, armed with a screwdriver, forced the man into his kitchen where a struggle ensued and he was stabbed, Scotland Yard said.

The 38-year-old was taken to hospital by paramedics but was pronounced dead at 03:40.

The pensioner, who suffered bruising to his arms, has been arrested on suspicion of murder.

 

Bonkers. So, a couple of local scroates break into an elderly person's home in the middle of the night. they come tooled up with a screwdriver and force him into his kitchen where presumably, the elderly man grabs a kitchen knife with which to defend himself.  A scrote gets stabbed and dies.

The elderly man is charged with murder o.O

I thought that murder had to be premeditated?  

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2 minutes ago, One percent said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43639183

A 78-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of murder after a suspected burglar was stabbed to death.

The homeowner discovered two intruders in Further Green Road, Hither Green, south-east London, at about 00:45 BST.

One suspect, armed with a screwdriver, forced the man into his kitchen where a struggle ensued and he was stabbed, Scotland Yard said.

The 38-year-old was taken to hospital by paramedics but was pronounced dead at 03:40.

The pensioner, who suffered bruising to his arms, has been arrested on suspicion of murder.

 

Bonkers. So, a couple of local scroates break into an elderly person's home in the middle of the night. they come tooled up with a screwdriver and force him into his kitchen where presumably, the elderly man grabs a kitchen knife with which to defend himself.  A scrote gets stabbed and dies.

The elderly man is charged with murder o.O

I thought that murder had to be premeditated.

Nope. You only need to demonstrate intention to cause grievous bodily harm.

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I'd add that the whole legal process will be so stressful to the pensioner that it'll take years off his life.

I'd also add that a 78 year old would likely be more terrified than a fit younger guy, and actually have more reason to be terrified.  

I don't normally go for 'you can do what you like when they break in' (it is a complicated bit of law), but I'd actually be accepting of a clarification that for someone vulnerable (old, otherwise frail, disabled, etc) there would be a relaxing of the rules as to what would constitute 'reasonable force'.

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59 minutes ago, dgul said:

I'd add that the whole legal process will be so stressful to the pensioner that it'll take years off his life.

I'd also add that a 78 year old would likely be more terrified than a fit younger guy, and actually have more reason to be terrified.  

I don't normally go for 'you can do what you like when they break in' (it is a complicated bit of law), but I'd actually be accepting of a clarification that for someone vulnerable (old, otherwise frail, disabled, etc) there would be a relaxing of the rules as to what would constitute 'reasonable force'.

Well an old man is hardly likely to be able to win a fair fight against a burglar, so to my mind 'Reasonable' means deadly force.

My guess is that the Police need to be satisfied that the facts as related by the homeowner are in fact true, and not some sort of domestic squabble.

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I can't read the article for some reason, new security settings at work I think..

Does it say how many times the old chap stabbed the burglar? Was it once, or did he go full psycho? Did he then skin him and stitch together bits of his torso to make a mask?

 

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6 minutes ago, sarahbell said:

I do wonder how I'd react to getting mugged these days. Would I use it as a way of releasing the pent up anger inside or would I dissolve and give them what they wanted?

 

In my experience these things typically come out of the blue and you don't consciously know they are happening until afterwards. Or if you do realise, then you often have time to take avoiding action.

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4 minutes ago, Byron said:

Well an old man is hardly likely to be able to win a fair fight against a burglar, so to my mind 'Reasonable' means deadly force.

 

Exactly.  A big fit guy might fancy his chances to get the burglar into a headlock; the frail pensioner has one chance to disable his opponent in such a way that he won't be able to hit back.

2 minutes ago, Reck B said:

I can't read the article for some reason, new security settings at work I think..

Does it say how many times the old chap stabbed the burglar? Was it once, or did he go full psycho? Did he then skin him and stitch together bits of his torso to make a mask?

 

One stab wound to the chest is what I heard.

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Heck I'm a 140lb weakling - if I thought my life was in danger I'd not try and wrestle with or fight the burglar - I'd try and kill the bastard. Jam a knife in his throat. I'd not enjoy it but it's kill or be killed.

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Just now, JoeDavola said:

Heck I'm a 140lb weakling - if I thought my life was in danger I'd not try and wrestle with or fight the burglar - I'd try and kill the bastard. Jam a knife in his throat. I'd not enjoy it but it's kill or be killed.

Someone breaking into your house in the middle of the night, you don't know their intentions, you cannot 'read' them.  Are they their to just burgle?  Will they get violent if challenged?  

You don't know these people and so have no idea how they will react to your presence.  In this situation, as you say, you would not mess around trying to find out

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25 minutes ago, sarahbell said:

I do wonder how I'd react to getting mugged these days. Would I use it as a way of releasing the pent up anger inside or would I dissolve and give them what they wanted?

 

Depends what they did to me, stealing a phone wouldn't get me riled enough, but I can be ruthless if triggered and then

One on one? I'd release my pent up anger

One on many more? Run, hide, tell :Old:

Edited by Hopeful

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Hopefully nothing will come of it, there have been a few cars where home owners have killed burglars and not been charged. 

Sad thing is here you have to be arrested for the police to question you. Though hopefully the police are understanding personally we should be more like America. Where unless there is enough evidence to charge you cannot be arrested. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, ad_ceng said:

Hopefully nothing will come of it, there have been a few cars where home owners have killed burglars and not been charged. 

Sad thing is here you have to be arrested for the police to question you. Though hopefully the police are understanding personally we should be more like America. Where unless there is enough evidence to charge you cannot be arrested. 

 

 

Just sit there and say nothing expect 'can I have a cup of tea please'

 

 

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2 minutes ago, SpectrumFX said:

If he can do a good enough frail old man turn in court then there's no way a jury will convict.

It might be different if the burglar had been a kid or something, but that's not the case.

Yes, seems unlikely they would convict unless there are some suspicious circumstances. 

IIRC Tony Martin was alleged to have shot a sixteen year old burglar in the back while he was running away, though I suspect the case was part of the Blarite attempt to politicise the legal system by making an example of householders using firearms and/or lethal force. 

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2 minutes ago, Austin Allegro said:

Yes, seems unlikely they would convict unless there are some suspicious circumstances. 

IIRC Tony Martin was alleged to have shot a sixteen year old burglar in the back while he was running away, though I suspect the case was part of the Blarite attempt to politicise the legal system by making an example of householders using firearms and/or lethal force. 

correct.  

he would never have faced jail under a different administration.

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8 minutes ago, wherebee said:

Just sit there and say nothing expect 'can I have a cup of tea please'

 

 

You should never ever talk to the police nothing good comes of it 

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Despite tabloid bollocks, there are plenty of cases in UK law where those who are burgled and defend themselves, get let off. Don't know if it applies to murder, although he hasn't been charged yet for that.

 

Also, DM has locked comments on this I note, so please be mindful of what you post.

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Tony Martin convicted himself by talking too much.

In these circumstances all that you say is,

'I was alone in my house.

A burglar broke in  and threatened to kill me.

I was terrified.

I defended myself.'

This will satisfy the law on self defence.

The Police/CPS will try to get you to say more in an attempt to show that you used unreasonable force.

Never add anything extra, even in court, reply to all questions with the above mantra and nothing more.

In the unlikely event that they trace the other burglar and get him to give evidence against you, simply say that you do not think that he was the other man.

Leave your barrister to call him a liar.

Of course, if you had followed the mantra from the start, no-one would even know that there was a second burglar.

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Just now, spunko2010 said:

Despite tabloid bollocks, there are plenty of cases in UK law where those who are burgled get let off.

I think the tabloid bollocks helps.

There will be an aboslute outcry if this bloke is charged and howls if he is convicted.

The police know this and that they cannot just quietly lock householders defending themselves up without complaints going all the way to the government.

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1 minute ago, Frank Hovis said:

I think the tabloid bollocks helps.

There will be an aboslute outcry if this bloke is charged and howls if he is convicted.

The police know this and that they cannot just quietly lock householders defending themselves up without complaints going all the way to the government.

I don't know - I thought everyone sided with Tony Martin but if you go on the Guardian site and look at comments, most of them seem to side with the pikeys who burgled him.

 

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