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Great Guy

Gender Pay Gap

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The whole Gender Pay Gap is complete bunkum, yet more disingenuous headlines to beat men with. Average pay!

Getting sick of this nonsense. Equal pay for same job roles has existed for years. Who takes up the slack when women take maternity leave or work part-time, on't work anti-social hours or need special leeway with hours. Not knocking motherhood but if they are not there women cannot expect the incremental advancements and career progressions born of hard work and reliability.

It's a bit more of the have it all syndrome, join the workforce and still be a great mum and have a great career. It doesn't work; choices have to be made, with the man taking up the slack and the monetary responsibility for his family. Yin and Yang. More cheap feminist man-bashing.

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Just now, Alonso Quijano said:

The whole Gender Pay Gap is complete bunkum, yet more disingenuous headlines to beat men with. Average pay!

Getting sick of this nonsense. Equal pay for same job roles has existed for years. Who takes up the slack when women take maternity leave or work part-time, on't work anti-social hours or need special leeway with hours. Not knocking motherhood but if they are not there women cannot expect the incremental advancements and career progressions born of hard work and reliability.

It's a bit more of the have it all syndrome, join the workforce and still be a great mum and have a great career. It doesn't work; choices have to be made, with the man taking up the slack and the monetary responsibility for his family. Yin and Yang. More cheap feminist man-bashing.

As the saying goes, for a woman, having it all means doing it all. 

Just saying. :)

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From 20-30 women get paid more, given equal roles.  Also, more of them go to college and they get better grades at school.  There are also more women in high paid jobs like medicine.

What are they doing about this?  Special boys stuff to get them to study more?  Special gender quotas for colleges?  Targets to sort out boys becoming doctors?

No.  Nothing.  It is clearly just the boys fault.  Even worse, they're still doing all the positive gender stuff for women, even with this female bias.

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To be honest,  I’m really disappointed with May.  

In the past couple of years her inner circle have focused on contrived/trivial “women’s lib” issues while completely ignoring the bigger social/political challenges facing the country.

The next election will be the first time in my life I won’t be voting conservative. The party still best matches my own Libertarian views,  but I’m completely fed up with the current leadership.  I would rather let Steptoe unleash his worst than have another term of Theresa and her merry band of well intentioned idiots**

 

** I exclude Mogg, Johnson and Davis from that. They are the only ones left I have any respect for.

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A thought experiment. You have two groups of teenagers.

Group A are socially agreeable and articulate. They're not aggressive or particularly reckless. You like them.

Group B are both more aggressive, and more reckless. They therefore take more risks and are frankly often a pain in the arse.

Let them loose on the world and come back in twenty years. Group A as a whole have done ok, but the performance from group B is more mixed.

Some members of group B have done very well indeed, significantly better than the average of those in group A. Others have completely crashed and burned. In fact group B are 20 times more likely to be in prison than group A.

The obvious conclusion is not that group A need a fucking pay rise so that the average pay off the two groups is equalised. That's actually insane.

O.o

My wife was moaning about this. I told her "You're mental, you make more money an hour than I do!"

She said "yeah, but you make more actual money.."

"Yes. Because I work more hours"

xD

Mental.

 

Edited by SpectrumFX

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As per previous comments it is a nonsense.

The median pay gap at mine is 6% shock horror.

Yet the pay is set for every job by an external company benchmarking the role from the job description; so entirely transparent and fair and set before the person is selected.

So the only reason there is a gap is because more women are applying for, and getting, the easier, less skilled and therefore lower paid jobs.  Which is entirely their choice and I presume done because these jobs are more flexible with their hours so it suits their life outside of work.

So this gap can only be eliminated by paying higher salaries for low skill jobs to bring them up to the pay levels of skilled jobs.  Which is a nonsense.

I mentioned before about the effect of the fast rising living wage on our in-house cleaners meaning that the differential between them and their supervisor becoming so small that when it became vacant none of them wanted it because the extra responsibility was not worth taking on for the small amount of pay increase.

Eliminating the "gap" will do similar in not making it worth acquiring skills because you can get the same money by not bothering.

If rules are brought in about eliminating the gap then I can actually see women losing out.  If you improve the pay for the easy, unskilled, flexible jobs then men will be queueing up for them and this will reduce the employment options for women who want flexible working.

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3 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

As per previous comments it is a nonsense.

The median pay gap at mine is 6% shock horror.

Yet the pay is set for every job by an external company benchmarking the role from the job description; so entirely transparent and fair and set before the person is selected.

So the only reason there is a gap is because more women are applying for, and getting, the easier, less skilled and therefore lower paid jobs.  Which is entirely their choice and I presume done because these jobs are more flexible with their hours so it suits their life outside of work.

So this gap can only be eliminated by paying higher salaries for low skill jobs to bring them up to the pay levels of skilled jobs.  Which is a nonsense.

I mentioned before about the effect of the fast rising living wage on our in-house cleaners meaning that the differential between them and their supervisor becoming so small that when it became vacant none of them wanted it because the extra responsibility was not worth taking on for the small amount of pay increase.

Eliminating the "gap" will do similar in not making it worth acquiring skills because you can get the same money by not bothering.

If rules are brought in about eliminating the gap then I can actually see women losing out.  If you improve the pay for the easy, unskilled, flexible jobs then men will be queueing up for them and this will reduce the employment options for women who want flexible working.

The easiest way to address this is to pay everyone the same, no matter what their job is or indeed whether they work or not. 

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7 minutes ago, One percent said:

The easiest way to address this is to pay everyone the same, no matter what their job is or indeed whether they work or not. 

Exactly - equality of outcome guaranteed.

There are problems with some top executives pay IMO where they are not set by market forces but by a tame Board who are all mates and that should be regulated first.  One thing coming out of the Carillion crash was that IMO their execs pay was very reasonable do they hadn't been gambling to get some huge bonus.

I am however in my previous post describing my company; there may well be other cos. out there who are actively paying men more than women for the same work.  As E M Forster would say "I am not the great world".

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Sainsbury’s have simplified their hierarchy, taking out leadership roles and equalising pay for all staff regardless of them being on the tills or doing the more physical and some could say more productive work traditionally carried out by males such as taking in deliveries or making deliveries. When this happened I believed it to be a direct consequence of the gender pay gap so that the PLC will be able to validate with actual statistics the gap closing within their organisation. They’ll be seen to be socially and ethically responsible whereas in the real world all staff have lost their paid breaks, overtime rates and bonuses. The value of the headline pay increase above £9 an hour will be rapidly eroded as the NMW catches up in <5 years. 

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25 minutes ago, longtomsilver said:

Sainsbury’s have simplified their hierarchy, taking out leadership roles and equalising pay for all staff regardless of them being on the tills or doing the more physical and some could say more productive work traditionally carried out by males such as taking in deliveries or making deliveries. When this happened I believed it to be a direct consequence of the gender pay gap so that the PLC will be able to validate with actual statistics the gap closing within their organisation. They’ll be seen to be socially and ethically responsible whereas in the real world all staff have lost their paid breaks, overtime rates and bonuses. The value of the headline pay increase above £9 an hour will be rapidly eroded as the NMW catches up in <5 years. 

That is completely nuts though

It will be a lot more calorific to load a truck than to sit at a till,

So it will cost a lot more to fuel a lorry loader than a till operator

The lorry loader will therefore need to spend more of their salary on food to do their work and so is placed at a significant disadvantage.

The lorry loader is subsidising the till operator

 

 

 

Edited by Hopeful

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8 hours ago, whitevanman said:

Hardly any wonder that there are three times as many male to female transsexuals than vice versa. 

 

Don't be pointing out more cases of discrimination! Wonder what colour ribbon Emma Watson will wear to highlight this injustice.

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43 minutes ago, Hopeful said:

That is completely nuts though

It will be a lot more calorific to load a truck than to sit at a till,

So it will cost a lot more to fuel a lorry loader than a till operator

The lorry loader will therefore need to spend more of their salary on food to do their work and so is placed at a significant disadvantage.

The lorry loader is subsidising the till operator

 

 

 

Spot on.

And the correct reponse from the men is to therefore apply for a job on the tills and leave Sainsburys unable to fill posts for the now underpaid lorry loaders.

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1 hour ago, One percent said:

The easiest way to address this is to pay everyone the same, no matter what their job is or indeed whether they work or not. 

And give everyone a tunr at everyone else jobs.

I look forward to the So-Called BBC and dumb MPs being flown to somewhere push by Shazza.

Or Taneesha performing open heart surgery on one of Stella Creasy's kids - assuming shes been knocked up.

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22 minutes ago, Frank Hovis said:

Spot on.

And the correct reponse from the men is to therefore apply for a job on the tills and leave Sainsburys unable to fill posts for the now underpaid lorry loaders.

 

Effectively, you are no longer paying for work done, just someone's time.

How about we charge everyone a flat daily fee for electricity supply, irrespective of the amount used.

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It might fun when they release the aggregate average of all wages reported as people may try to follow the bizarre logic through to its unnatural and illogical conclusion, that all workers should be paid the same irrespective of hours worked, seniority, experience or ability.

I mean, if a women who is being paid less than me can claim our pay gap is unfair can I also apply the same illogic providing I can find a women being paid more than me? What is good for the goose is good for the gander, in this case quite literally. Surely?

A complete denial of multivariate analysis would lead us directly to absolute communism.

 

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10 hours ago, Great Guy said:

2. No more maternity leave. Women are losing out on valuable career progression by taking time off to look after kids.

 

Got this situation at work, a couple of us have been promoted (not at our request, but the boss is going elsewhere). It's a very male environment, IT but we have one women who has been here the longest (bar one other and he is totally useless so wouldn't ever been considered). She has been over looked for promotion, which she is miffed about on account of her being here the longest. 

However despite the fact she joined 13 years ago in that time she has had three kids and so been off for close to 4 of those on maternity leave. The two of us that have got the promotion have both been here 12 years.   

Add in the fact she only works 4 days and does a solid 8-4 because she has to pick her kids up. At least once a week there is a drama with the kids so she has to work from home or leave early/come in late. 

Got no issue with the later paragraph, but it wouldn't enter her head that it's the reason she would be last on the list for promotion or higher pay. She would consider herself equal to anybody else in the office. 

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31 minutes ago, spygirl said:

And give everyone a tunr at everyone else jobs.

I look forward to the So-Called BBC and dumb MPs being flown to somewhere push by Shazza.

Or Taneesha performing open heart surgery on one of Stella Creasy's kids - assuming shes been knocked up.

oh, oh, brilliant idea.  i always wanted to try my hand a brain surgery.  

Mind there is already someone passing themselves off as a brain surgeon.  

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5491135/Appalled-experts-condemn-shocking-video-blundering-neurosurgeon.html

31 minutes ago, billfunk said:

It might fun when they release the aggregate average of all wages reported as people may try to follow the bizarre logic through to its unnatural and illogical conclusion, that all workers should be paid the same irrespective of hours worked, seniority, experience or ability.

I mean, if a women who is being paid less than me can claim our pay gap is unfair can I also apply the same illogic providing I can find a women being paid more than me? What is good for the goose is good for the gander, in this case quite literally. Surely?

A complete denial of multivariate analysis would lead us directly to absolute communism.

 

beat you to this one, though yours is far better argued through

 

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