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Is the UK really overcrowded?


swiss_democracy_for_all
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Is the UK really overcrowded?  

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swiss_democracy_for_all

OK so a poll. I want to challenge a popular idea that the UK is crowded. Except that it does seem like it is crowded when I go there......

However the population density per km2 of usable land in Switzerland is almost double that of the UK, but here it doesn't seem too crowded, especially outside the cities.

The Swiss have relevant laws - when a commune(small local entity about the size of a church parish) wants to increase it's population, it has to build appropriate infrastructure to accompany it. Immigration is proportionately similar or higher than the UK I might add.

So - is the UK really crowded, or is it just that successive governments have allowed massive immigration and have done nothing about the infrastructure, allowing the elites, banks and land cartels to milk the situation, squeezing everyone in at ever-higher prices?

Edited by swissy_fit
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In the south east UK it is very crowded. Lack of new roads, trains that only really go to London or back and expanding towns seem to make it get worse every year. I do love going up norf, empty roads and feels so much less crowded with the added bonus that people seem a lot more relaxed.

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Long time lurking

I went for option three but it`s relative as in parts  it`s  very overcrowded other places are over crowded when it comes to infrastructure then you have Scotland and large parts of Wales and the N/E N/W of England density per km 2 must be tiny ...the question is do we realy wan`t to fill these places with housing and leave nowt for agriculture if ever needed  

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swiss_democracy_for_all

Of course if you think that the UK should be like Canada, thousands of miles of wilderness, then it really is overcrowded. I'm assuming most people don't think that and would be happy to have plenty of people around but just not crammed in, unable to get on a train/see a doctor/get a tennis court/drive anywhere/etc etc.

Take a flight over the UK on a clear day with a window seat, even in South East or North West England, and check out some statistics, and you will see that the overcrowding is mostly an illusion. UK citizens are like ants on the savannah, all crammed into anthills with very busy ant trails connecting the anthills, unaware of the vast areas of open space around them  which is mostly owned by the people-farming rentier elites(CofE, Oxford/Cambridge colleges, MOD, Royals and aristocracy/Landbanking builders etc).

You'll need to edit the link to read this article, the amusing beeb swapper isn't such a clever thing for urls!

http://www.So-Called So-Called BBC.com/news/uk-18623096

Edited by swissy_fit
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Chewing Grass
13 hours ago, Oskar said:

In the south east UK it is very crowded. Lack of new roads, trains that only really go to London or back and expanding towns seem to make it get worse every year. I do love going up norf, empty roads and feels so much less crowded with the added bonus that people seem a lot more relaxed.

Fuck off, we dont want you spoiling it up here.

Edited by Chewing Grass
fucking comprehensive spelling and grammar
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swiss_democracy_for_all
10 hours ago, Long time lurking said:

I went for option three but it`s relative as in parts  it`s  very overcrowded other places are over crowded when it comes to infrastructure then you have Scotland and large parts of Wales and the N/E N/W of England density per km 2 must be tiny ...the question is do we realy wan`t to fill these places with housing and leave nowt for agriculture if ever needed  

In future a lot of agriculture will need less land space, it'll be done in sealed units under LEDs running off solar powered batteries that permit multiple crops per year by delivering optimum light frequencies, temperatures and plant nutrition, no insecticides/weedkillers etc required. Places like Iceland with almost unlimited geothermal power are set to become exporters of organic produce. You heard it here first... :P

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One percent

As promised here to report on Londonstan. 

I have not voted as it changes on a daily basis.  I've been moaning on here and previously the other site about how crowded it has all become.  Weirdly, today, it was very quiet (relatively). 

I don't know what's going on.  Tourists keeping away due to fear of terrorist attacks?  I know that I would not choose to visit a place where there is a possibility of being caught up in something.  I mean, why would you bother?

or it might be the EuErs voting with their feet and returning home.  

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2 hours ago, Chewing Grass said:

Fuck off, we dont want you spoiling it up here.

Tough shit, I am moving up norf in the short to medium term. Our plan GTFO of the SE in the next 18-24 months before the London region grinds to a halt or implodes in a multi cultural utopia.

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Chewing Grass
20 minutes ago, Oskar said:

Tough shit, I am moving up norf in the short to medium term. Our plan GTFO of the SE in the next 18-24 months before the London region grinds to a halt or implodes in a multi cultural utopia.

Stoke-on-Trent is nice, you'd love it there.

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3 hours ago, swissy_fit said:

Of course if you think that the UK should be like Canada, thousands of miles of wilderness, then it really is overcrowded. I'm assuming most people don't think that and would be happy to have plenty of people around but just not crammed in, unable to get on a train/see a doctor/get a tennis court/drive anywhere/etc etc.

Take a flight over the UK on a clear day with a window seat, even in South East or North West England, and check out some statistics, and you will see that the overcrowding is mostly an illusion. UK citizens are like ants on the savannah, all crammed into anthills with very busy ant trails connecting the anthills, unaware of the vast areas of open space around them  which is mostly owned by the people-farming rentier elites(CofE, Oxford/Cambridge colleges, MOD, Royals and aristocracy/Landbanking builders etc).

You'll need to edit the link to read this article, the amusing beeb swapper isn't such a clever thing for urls!

http://www.So-Called So-Called So-Called BBC.com/news/uk-18623096

The links work fine, it only changes the text not the URL. :Geek:

 

Anyway, to reply to your post, if you were able to fly over the same spot now and in the 1950s I think you'd have a cardiac arrest.

The problem with examples like that are that they're relative - you might consider a few fields to be sparsely populated but others won't. Sadly the population per sqm tells the real story.

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swiss_democracy_for_all
13 minutes ago, spunko2010 said:

The links work fine, it only changes the text not the URL. :Geek:

 

Anyway, to reply to your post, if you were able to fly over the same spot now and in the 1950s I think you'd have a cardiac arrest.

The problem with examples like that are that they're relative - you might consider a few fields to be sparsely populated but others won't. Sadly the population per sqm tells the real story.

I was thinking of a flight into Bristol last year on a pristine clear day, flight path up from the south east coast and then along the M4 corridor. Lots and lots and lots of land, even in the SE, mostly owned by the different branches of the elites. And lots of densely populated anthills with ant trails between.

Regarding the population per km2 thing, I think the information in the following link is better as it gives a better comparison with Switzerland where I live most of the time, which is much more densely populated if you don't count cliffs and Alps and lakes where no-one can live(just as they can't in the Scots highlands). And yet, it doesn't seem like it is more crowded. Because they build roads, hospitals, sports facilities, schools, business parks, public transport, sewage, power generation, rubbish collection etc to accommodate the growing population.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_real_population_density_based_on_food_growing_capacity

The people-farmers in the UK have been slowly heating the pan with the frog in (the people) for years and getting away with it.

 

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46 minutes ago, swissy_fit said:

I was thinking of a flight into Bristol last year on a pristine clear day, flight path up from the south east coast and then along the M4 corridor. Lots and lots and lots of land, even in the SE, mostly owned by the different branches of the elites. And lots of densely populated anthills with ant trails between.

Regarding the population per km2 thing, I think the information in the following link is better as it gives a better comparison with Switzerland where I live most of the time, which is much more densely populated if you don't count cliffs and Alps and lakes where no-one can live(just as they can't in the Scots highlands). And yet, it doesn't seem like it is more crowded. Because they build roads, hospitals, sports facilities, schools, business parks, public transport, sewage, power generation, rubbish collection etc to accommodate the growing population.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_real_population_density_based_on_food_growing_capacity

The people-farmers in the UK have been slowly heating the pan with the frog in (the people) for years and getting away with it.

 

Even if there was the required investment in infrastructure in this country to support the population increase, most wouldn't back it. There is only so much countryside that can be paved over. I can't see any benefit of continually increasing the population every year.

If we are to compare the UK vs another country, let's look at Norway, which is one of the least-populated in Europe, and has one of the lowest population /km2 figure too. Their economy is doing just fine.

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5 hours ago, swissy_fit said:

Of course if you think that the UK should be like Canada, thousands of miles of wilderness, then it really is overcrowded. I'm assuming most people don't think that and would be happy to have plenty of people around but just not crammed in, unable to get on a train/see a doctor/get a tennis court/drive anywhere/etc etc.

Take a flight over the UK on a clear day with a window seat, even in South East or North West England, and check out some statistics, and you will see that the overcrowding is mostly an illusion. UK citizens are like ants on the savannah, all crammed into anthills with very busy ant trails connecting the anthills, unaware of the vast areas of open space around them  which is mostly owned by the people-farming rentier elites(CofE, Oxford/Cambridge colleges, MOD, Royals and aristocracy/Landbanking builders etc).

You'll need to edit the link to read this article, the amusing beeb swapper isn't such a clever thing for urls!

http://www.So-Called So-Called So-Called BBC.com/news/uk-18623096

It's not just as simple as having elbow room though is it?

The infrastructure and services are stretched to fuck, roads are going unrepaired, the quality of education has fucking nose-dived, the NHS is fucked......

Yeah, there's plenty of room for bodies on the ground, but you have to feed, clothe, treat and educate them.

THERE'S TO MANY PEOPLE.

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swiss_democracy_for_all
5 minutes ago, spunko2010 said:

Even if there was the required investment in infrastructure in this country to support the population increase, most wouldn't back it. There is only so much countryside that can be paved over. I can't see any benefit of continually increasing the population every year.

If we are to compare the UK vs another country, let's look at Norway, which is one of the least-populated in Europe, and has one of the lowest population /km2 figure too. Their economy is doing just fine.

True, many people wouldn't back it, but mainly through ignorance and nimbyism. The 7m or so people are already in the UK now, Brexit won't involve sending anyone home, and the Tories are backing off cutting immigration. So unless the building is done, the squeeze will continue. 

If you want a stable or decreasing population you need either a country in massive recession so people are leaving it in desperation, or a fundamental change in the financial system which is designed for permanent expansion and to funnel money up to the elites. I doubt if you'll get either of those and the first isn't desirable anyway. 

Norway would be low to middle income but for the oil and gas. (which admittedly they have used very well, better than any other nation with those resources)

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swiss_democracy_for_all
2 minutes ago, THE MAJOR said:

It's not just as simple as having elbow room though is it?

The infrastructure and services are stretched to fuck, roads are going unrepaired, the quality of education has fucking nose-dived, the NHS is fucked......

Yeah, there's plenty of room for bodies on the ground, but you have to feed, clothe, treat and educate them.

THERE'S TO MANY PEOPLE.

Agreed, there are too many people for the infrastructure. But they won't send them home, whatever anyone might want, that is not going to happen. So what's the solution?

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There's 0.57 Acres per person in England (and falling by the day). Just enough for everyone to have a nice house on a decent plot and nothing else. Yes we're crowded.

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Long time lurking
1 hour ago, swissy_fit said:

Agreed, there are too many people for the infrastructure. But they won't send them home, whatever anyone might want, that is not going to happen. So what's the solution?

Stop any more coming would be a start and make sure the ones already  here are paying their way al la Switzerland on the latter point..

The problem is the UK has been sinking for a long time now the politicians answer to this problem was to try re-float the good ship Britannia by pieling more people on board hoping they can bail the sinking hulk out ..it has not worked their bailing pales are far to small to cope with the extra displacement they represent ...the ship is still fucking sinking just at a faster rate  

 

Edited by Long time lurking
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3 hours ago, Chewing Grass said:

Stoke-on-Trent is nice, you'd love it there.

I did drive through it once but left as quickly as possible. Some lovely little towns and villages outside of it.

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swiss_democracy_for_all
24 minutes ago, NTB said:

There's 0.57 Acres per person in England (and falling by the day). Just enough for everyone to have a nice house on a decent plot and nothing else. Yes we're crowded.

This is a good point, that England is certainly more crowded than the rest of the UK. Unfortunately I haven't got "Real" (ie usable land) population density figures for England, only the UK. I'd guess with Switzerland at 1900 per km2 and UK at 1077 that England and Switzerland are quite close to being the same. But Switzerland doesn't seem anything like as crowded.....(The "real" Swiss whinge a bit because they haven't all got 2nd houses like they had 40 years ago, but trust me it's not the shithole that the UK has become)

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13 minutes ago, Long time lurking said:

Stop any more coming would be a start and make sure the ones already  here are paying their way al la Switzerland on the latter point..

The problem is the UK has been sinking for a long time now the politicians answer to this problem was to try re-float the good ship Britannia by pieling more people on board hoping they can bail the sinking hulk out ..it has not worked their bailing pales are far to small to cope with the extra displacement they represent ...the ship is still fucking sinking just at a faster rate  

 

Exactly.

I would however enact forced deportation of non-nationals who are claiming any form of social benefit, and unless you've paid into the system via tax, NI or any other benefit, deny access to the NHS, needless to say asylum seekers would be subjected to a more aggressive assessment and denied access to anything until proven as genuine, and I would halt immigration from anywhere tomorrow and assess just what the fuck is going on, because it seems to me, nobody cares.

I'd also appreciate someone doing some figures on the cost of sending Pakistanis back home by air, weighed against the amount of social security the cunts are ripping us off for?

I'd bet it would be a close call, and air Pakistan would be delighted.

Then maybe the So-Called BBC wouldn't have to try to gloss over so many allegations of child rape by Muslims.

(I'm prepared to be moderated for this :Old:)

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swiss_democracy_for_all
17 minutes ago, Long time lurking said:

Stop any more coming.

Won't happen. Banks call the tune in UK politics and they say no. Tories have already backed off this, they know who is the real boss. What was the idea the other day - a special case for "barista visas" because Brits won't sell coffee? FFS.

19 minutes ago, Long time lurking said:

make sure the ones already  here are paying their way al la Switzerland on the latter point..

Good idea. But this would have to be applied to the whole UK population, not just gimmegrants(or no trade deals with EU). This could conceivably happen if May has a 150-200 majority but I doubt it, it would take real balls and probably would require abolishing the Lords. Too many people already on the teat.

30 minutes ago, Long time lurking said:

The problem is the UK has been sinking for a long time now the politicians answer to this problem was to try re-float the good ship Britannia by pieling more people on board hoping they can bail the sinking hulk out ..it has not worked their bailing pales are far to small to cope with the extra displacement they represent ...the ship is still fucking sinking just at a faster rate  

It was never an answer, just a way of permitting the banks to keep skimming, extend and pretend while hoping the poorer people didn't notice.  

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swiss_democracy_for_all
9 minutes ago, THE MAJOR said:

Exactly.

I would however enact forced deportation of non-nationals who are claiming any form of social benefit, and unless you've paid into the system via tax, NI or any other benefit, deny access to the NHS, needless to say asylum seekers would be subjected to a more aggressive assessment and denied access to anything until proven as genuine, and I would halt immigration from anywhere tomorrow and assess just what the fuck is going on, because it seems to me, nobody cares.

I'd also appreciate someone doing some figures on the cost of sending Pakistanis back home by air, weighed against the amount of social security the cunts are ripping us off for?

I'd bet it would be a close call, and air Pakistan would be delighted.

Then maybe the So-Called So-Called BBC wouldn't have to try to gloss over so many allegations of child rape by Muslims.

(I'm prepared to be moderated for this :Old:)

You have an apt avatar! (but he was a bit jollier :-) )  Amusing but none of it will happen, I'm trying to propose a real solution to improve the quality of life in my home nation, I might have to go back there permanently sometime, so I don't want to see it people-farmed into an unliveable mess!  Howl at the moon if you must. 

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